So, I'm contemplating a MK3 VRS TDI, given that the prices are coming down, and the road tax is cheap, to replace my aging Subaru Legacy.

I don't NEED awd, and having driven both a MK2 Scout and my Mums VW Passat, both 140hp 2.0 diesel variants, I'm confident that if any diesel skoda can scratch the itch, itll be one of these.

I do intend on modifying it for more power, although time will tell how far down that rabbit hole I go.

So - the point of this thread is, I'm also tempted by a BMW, the 320D has the same power as a diesel VRS, and the 330D is very tempting indeed, however both are much less practical and quite a bit heavier, and I'm not enough of a badge snob to put any value at all on the emblem on the bonnet/boot.

Has anyone here owned/driven both a VRS TDI and a 320D/330D? I know neither will be as good as my Legacy, but then very few cars are. 

I had a 320D for 15 months as a company car (my wifes actually).

She hated driving it so I used it as a motorway grinder until she could give it back....

 

Quality wise, the BMW is obviously a bit better built & the interior materials were better.

However, from a driving point of view the Octavia was much nicer particularly around town & felt much more nimble than the heavy BMW.

Practicality for a family they are both the same but servicing costs for the BMW were double the Octavia (both taken to official dealers but I didnt actually pay for the BMW).

 

One thing I disliked about the BMW (it was from 2014 similar to my Octavia at the time) was that you could not update the navigation maps for free.

You needed to buy a DVD for €400 a pop for the BMW...

I guess you can probably buy from "amazon" much cheaper & more modern versions will have OTA updates I guess.

 

I was very happy to give back to BMW & get back into my Octavia.

 

You sound like "performance" is more your interest though & I cant really comment on this much.

The vRS TDi is more than quick enough for me & although not immensely exciting to drive it is very comfortable for cruising on the highway & munching through the miles.

They're very different cars.

 

We've had a 330i, and about 25 years ago, a 325i.

 

Power wise, they're very similar, but that isn't the whole story. The vRS is designed to be a bit hot, with handling to suit. The 320/330 series are powerful(ish) motorway cars. It all depends what you want.

 

The 330d is meaty - very meaty. If you're interested in tuning options, then one of those might be worth a look, as those N57s can put out some stupid torque numbers. Stage 1 only, a 330d will put out about 120nm more than a stage 2 Octavia.

 

Personally, you're comparing the wrong cars.

 

320d = vRS TDI

330d/335d = A4/A6 3.0 biturbo

 

10 hours ago, Gabbo said:

Quality wise, the BMW is obviously a bit better built & the interior materials were better

That doesnt really bother me - I have found I really like Skoda interiors, so many cubby holes and cupholders.

10 hours ago, Gabbo said:

from a driving point of view the Octavia was much nicer particularly around town & felt much more nimble than the heavy BMW.

Thats supprising, I remember my MK2 Octavia Scout had a really tight turning circle, and the ride was rather excellent, but on a twisty road it didnt feel nimble at all. I did notice the weight difference when looking at the figures, supprisingly the BMW is even heavier than my AWD 3.0L Subaru...

10 hours ago, Gabbo said:

Practicality for a family they are both the same

Not even close, the Skoda definately wins hands down, the boot is vastly bigger, although Im guessing the seats dont fold down flat? Personally, I havnt got kids, but I do have a lovely big dog, so I do need an estate.

10 hours ago, Gabbo said:

servicing costs for the BMW were double the Octavia

Would this be true at an independant garage, or if I were to service them myself? With my Subaru I mostly service/repair that myself, but thats because everything is quite simple, whereas with all the german cars, everything seems to be buries much deeper, with several more layers of plastic, so Ive always taken them to someone else to fix for me.

10 hours ago, Gabbo said:

The vRS TDi is more than quick enough for me & although not immensely exciting to drive it is very comfortable for cruising on the highway & munching through the miles.

Yep, Im doing a few too many miles with my 22mpg Subaru, and itll eventually fail its MoT for virtually irrepairable rear subframe rot. My only criticism for how it drives is that the steering could be heavier and have more "feel", as the journalists would say. And the clutch is appauling in traffic, because the previous owner fitted an uprated one, fit for over 400hp.

Thanks for your contribution, definately some useful things there, if I wasnt such a keen driver, Id be buying another Skoda in a heartbeat.

 

2 hours ago, Occy245 said:

The vRS is designed to be a bit hot, with handling to suit. The 320/330 series are powerful(ish) motorway cars. It all depends what you want.

Well, I know both will cope with the motorway duties just fine, its more the twisty A-roads and overtaking both lorries on the only stretch of suitable road for what seems like 50,000,000 miles. My Subaru is excellent at that sort of thing, loads of power and loads of grip, a relatively lightweight and nimble chassis, good suspension, big brakes etc.

2 hours ago, Occy245 said:

The 330d is meaty - very meaty

Im certainly not a vegan.

2 hours ago, Occy245 said:

If you're interested in tuning options

Very likely, but only if the rest of the car can cope with it. 

2 hours ago, Occy245 said:

Personally, you're comparing the wrong cars.

 

320d = vRS TDI

330d/335d = A4/A6 3.0 biturbo

Yeah, although I'd say that the A6 is a 5-series rival. The daft thing being, the Octavia has the biggest boot of them all!

Really I've no use for the extra size of a 5-series/A6/Superb, so its just an extra half ton or so of car, making it slower and thirstier than it need be.

Obviously in a straight line, a 330D will walk away from a VRS TDI, its got 50% more engine. My question is, if you're going for a drive down a nice bit of road, which one is more involving and more fun? I dont think I'd need more than 180hp, and the VRS has the same top speed as my Subaru (not that Im cruising above 140mph very often).

If I were willing to consider an auto, which I'm not sure I am, is it worth me looking at the AWD version of the VRS? They arent as expensive as I thought, with a few on autotrader under 10k.

Obviously, if I'm looking at autos, that broadens my choices quite a bit.

The 335d is only available as an auto. 330d can be both, and they have meatier boxes than the 320d, etc. This isn't the best place to look for tuning advice, however from what I know the only things preventing those engines from making silly torque figures are the turbo and fuelling. Certainly, 335d gearboxes (GA8HP70Z) come with over 700nm stock (X5M50d). 

 

The AWD vRS is an interesting one. On one hand, it is heavier, more expensive to buy and more expensive to maintain than the FWD variant. If we're talking in terms of acceleration traction, then the AWD vRS is definitely the better shout than the FWD version. If we're talking handling wise, then I wouldn't bother - the car isn't powerful enough or "good handling" enough to warrant it. Certainly, I've tracked mine and booted it on the exit of many corners, and never found I really wanted AWD. The only factor is in the cold and wet, where they can get a bit understeerey.

 

19 hours ago, Reeky said:

My question is, if you're going for a drive down a nice bit of road, which one is more involving and more fun?

 

If it's a question of vRS vs 3 series, I'd personally have the Skoda as I think it's more engaging. BUT, that is me talking about a vRS 245 with a diff, versus say a 330i. If we're talking specifically about a vRS TDI over a 320d then I think the Skoda engine is just that little bit more appealing, and the package is a bit sportier. However, if it was a 330d vs the vRS then I think I'd say the BMW.  It's not really a fair comparison - FWD 2.0 vs a RWD 3.0 is a no brainer, and a 2.0 TDI just can't compete with an N57, no matter what you've done to it.

On 23/01/2025 at 18:09, Occy245 said:

The AWD vRS is an interesting one. On one hand, it is heavier, more expensive to buy and more expensive to maintain than the FWD variant.

Yeah, but realistically the weight difference is something like a full vs empty tank of fuel, or giving one of your mates a lift, especially if theyre a bit partial to mcdonalds...

On 23/01/2025 at 18:09, Occy245 said:

If we're talking handling wise, then I wouldn't bother - the car isn't powerful enough or "good handling" enough to warrant it.

Here is where the problems lie, becuase in the standard 184hp form, I agree, but I'm sure I'll be tempted to remap it, or possibly even more than that, and the more the power climbs, the more I'll find myself wanting the extra traction.

On 23/01/2025 at 18:09, Occy245 said:

The only factor is in the cold and wet, where they can get a bit understeerey.

I live in Wales. When it isnt cold and wet, I'm not driving, Im too busy having a party of walking up a mountain. It rains more often than it doesnt, and the roads are at least "not dry" at least 2/3rds of the time.

 

The other option of course, if I wanted AWD and petrol, is a Yeti. But then I suspect Im just converging on Subaru levels of thirst if I start chasing power with one of those.

 

My mum has offered me her old 2013 Passat quite cheaply, since she is moving to a place with a low emission zone. Its on 166k and its the 2.0tdi CR140, so should map to roughly standard VRS TDI power. From my understanding, the Passat is a bit heavier than an Octavia, and its longer, but has a better rear suspension setup (Scirocco uses Passat rear suspension, rather than Golf, which Im guessing is what the Octavia uses). So for less than half the price of an Octavia, I can buy my mums old Passat and have it remapped, that seems like a no-brainer?

Passat/superb is a nice step up in terms of comfort compared with they Octy.

I've recently upgraded to a Superb and it's very good. 

 

Aside from the lower power TDi (with smaller injectors that will limit what you'll get out of it) the other thing you might consider is the ride and handling of the Passat.

The VRS Suspension is very firm on the Octy.

If the Passat is similar to the Superb then it will be like driving in a bouncy castle over speed bumps in comparison. 

 

It's very comfortable when driving leisurely with the family but not really great if you take a speed hump faster than a crawl.

 

Gabbo 

Yeah, the Passat also has 17" wheels with a sensible amount of tyre sidewall, which also helps with comfort.

I dont mind firm suspension, I do mind if its so bad that I need a new spine, or if its so low it scrapes on speedbumps, etc.

So after looking a bit further, I'm drawn to either a Superb in (170PS 2.0 TDI 4x4 form) or an F31 BMW 320D Xdrive - I know, a slightly bizzare conclusion - but hear me out - they are the most powerful diesel manual AWD estates, without going for the ridiculously heavy V6 TDI Audis. They also both have manual handbrakes.

The Superb is bigger, more practical, and can tow more. The BMW is marginally more powerful, quicker, and faster, and the AWD system works the other way around (i.e. its always RWD with a clutch occasionally engaging the front wheels). I imagine that the Skoda is likely to be the more relable of the two, and the cheaper of the two to repair. Fuel economy I imagine will be identical, although the BMW is £100 a year cheaper to tax. However, it's also much much easier to find a Skoda with all the optional extras, whereas in my price range, you take what you can get with the BMW.

The BMW should be better to drive, especially if I can get one with the adaptive dampers. Its 10hp and 50NM up on the Superb as standard, and apparently they both weigh 1580kg, and its 1.5 seconds quicker to 60. However the Skodas boot is 140L bigger.

Given that I doubt I'll need the extra bootspace, legroom, or towing capacity of the Superb, is there anything I've missed out?