Wonderfully (NOT)  the timing belt snapped on my 2016 Octavia 2.0 tdi 150bhp 🤯

 

Fairly sure its an interference engine so likely to have done lots of damage 😞 

 

The belt had been changed within the service interval it wasn't overdue. What actually caused it to fail was the fan belt snapping, the alternator light came on and then within minutes the belt wrapped around the timing belt!  It actually happened and stalled just after I pulled up outside work so it didn't audibly go bang it gently stalled. The engine was at idle when it happened, it ran rough for about 5 seconds and just stopped running. Am I being very optimistic that I could have possibly got away with little to no internal damage or is it 99% dead cert that the head will be toast? And possibly pistons?

 

It's a high mileage car but as I said the belt was changed its the fan belt that tangled which caused it to fail.

 

Time to scrap the Skoda or do I fix it? 

 

Edited 19 January, 20251 yr by Gremlyng

This is not the first time this has happenned and won't be the last. 

 

What is the mileage? It's probably not worth paying somebody to inspect and do any top end work unless you throw a new belt on it and hope for the best. Salvage engine is probably the best option.

 

Its a shame to ruin a good car for the sake of a few quid, I keep a close eye on mine at every service and it still looks in good shape but when I read things like this I might just order a new one!

 

 

I guess it is injectors or glow plugs out and borescope in to find out.

 

Most likely there is some valve or piston damage 😞

@Gremlyng how many miles has the engine done, and what service interval was it done by, the UK non dust country but still according to Skoda 50,000 miles / 5 years as it was? 

Extremely bad luck.  It does happen and if you car was serviced by Skoda, you might have recourse to them to get it fixed under good will.

Otherwise, it will probably be bent valves if you were at idle.  The worry is if the valve has either impacted (hard) the top of the cylinder head or (worse) - snapped and gone into the combustion chamber....in which case, it would have scored the cylinder liner and I would suggest would probably end up being scrap.  You could get the engine bored out slightly, put in some oversized pistons....

 

Anyway, first stop...to the garage/specialist.  They will need to remove the cylinder head as a first port of call and via a Boroscope - inspect the top of the cylinders.  Plans can then be made on whether its just new valves or whether it a new engine.

54 minutes ago, varaderoguy said:

They will need to remove the cylinder head as a first port of call and via a Boroscope - inspect the top of the cylinders.

 

Not sure of the value of using a borescope once the head's off?

 

It's not a dead cert that the head is toast at all, but you won't know without looking.  That it was at idle and 'gently stalled' might mean it stopped quicker, which in turn might mitigate the level of damage.  Unfortunately it's more likely for there to be damage than not.  In the mid '90's my S-i-L snapped the cam belt on her Ford Sierra, and then tried to start it.  Expecting the worst I got a replacement head before I started.  Once the head was off it was clear the original head was in better condition than the replacement and was easily repaired.  You never know - fingers crossed for you 🤞

 

Gaz

3 hours ago, Gaz said:

Not sure of the value of using a borescope once the head's off?

Sorry - that should have read: check with a Boroscope to check the cylinder head BEFORE you take off the head itself.  Typing too quickly this morning.

Failure at idle will be likely be bent valves alone, if any broke then its probably more severe.

I have seen that before. Small belt should be replaced every 50000. Together with its pulley..

16 hours ago, SuperbTWM said:

This is not the first time this has happenned and won't be the last. 

 

What is the mileage? It's probably not worth paying somebody to inspect and do any top end work unless you throw a new belt on it and hope for the best. Salvage engine is probably the best option.

 

Its a shame to ruin a good car for the sake of a few quid, I keep a close eye on mine at every service and it still looks in good shape but when I read things like this I might just order a new one!

 

 

It's done 180K but it's mainly motorway mileage it's not had a hard life.

16 hours ago, RattleWagon said:

I guess it is injectors or glow plugs out and borescope in to find out.

 

Most likely there is some valve or piston damage 😞

Yeah that was my thoughts but to get to the injectors to remove them and stick a camera in there is going to cost quite a bit as getting to the point you can use a camera will already see a healthy bill in labour.

8 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@Gremlyng how many miles has the engine done, and what service interval was it done by, the UK non dust country but still according to Skoda 50,000 miles / 5 years as it was? 

It's been servierd regular, it's done 180k but as I say it was mainly motorway mileage - Had the fan belt not sanpped and fowled the main timing belt it wouldn't have happened. The car pulled like a train, the DPF was in good health, the EGR had been replaced and the oil pump etc...  IT wasn't puffing smoke or sounding tired.

6 hours ago, Gaz said:

 

Not sure of the value of using a borescope once the head's off?

 

It's not a dead cert that the head is toast at all, but you won't know without looking.  That it was at idle and 'gently stalled' might mean it stopped quicker, which in turn might mitigate the level of damage.  Unfortunately it's more likely for there to be damage than not.  In the mid '90's my S-i-L snapped the cam belt on her Ford Sierra, and then tried to start it.  Expecting the worst I got a replacement head before I started.  Once the head was off it was clear the original head was in better condition than the replacement and was easily repaired.  You never know - fingers crossed for you 🤞

 

Gaz

Thanks Gaz -  I think I might just risk it for the cost of a belt and get it fitted and chance my arm - My luck has been crap of late so it'll probably be toast lol But you have to do something eh lol

2 minutes ago, Gremlyng said:

Yeah that was my thoughts but to get to the injectors to remove them and stick a camera in there is going to cost quite a bit as getting to the point you can use a camera will already see a healthy bill in labour.

I think that the diagnostic should not cost more than an hours labour.  Looking at the top of the pistons with a boroscope (even with a TDI and removing the glowplugs for investigation) - doesn't take long.  If you want a compression test, that may take about 30 mins to complete....it all depends how in-depth you want to go and what your budget is.  Good diagnostics can save the cost of a new engine if only the valves are bent.  Replacing the valves - about an two labour - getting the engine re-timed....plus a new belt (and probably water pump whilst you are there) - call it 4-5hrs labour all in told if you have been lucky.

2 hours ago, imart143 said:

I have seen that before. Small belt should be replaced every 50000. Together with its pulley..

The belt was changed within the service schedule, it has been looked after there is no ignorance or complacency here. As I said the fan belt snapped and wrapped around the tiiming belt.

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Failure at idle will be likely be bent valves alone, if any broke then its probably more severe.

Thanks, it's what I figured to be the case, what a nightmare..... Had I been neglectful to the service interval I#d say I had it coming but it's pur and simple bad luck.... Not sure why there isn't something placed on the enging to prevent the fan belt being dragged into the path of the main timing belt.

There is, the timing belt is fully covered, albeit by plastic covers. I guess the aux belt  remnants flailing about managed to destroy part of the covering.

Or perhaps more likely, part of it jammed up the crank pulley, causing it to stop rotating abruptly? Not sure.

16 minutes ago, Gremlyng said:

It's been serviced regular

Serviced regular but not to a very high standard by the look of it. 
 

who has been servicing the car? That belt will more than likely have shown its age and I would expect this to be checked if I’m paying somebody to keep my car maintained

10 minutes ago, varaderoguy said:

I think that the diagnostic should not cost more than an hours labour.  Looking at the top of the pistons with a boroscope (even with a TDI and removing the glowplugs for investigation) - doesn't take long.  If you want a compression test, that may take about 30 mins to complete....it all depends how in-depth you want to go and what your budget is.  Good diagnostics can save the cost of a new engine if only the valves are bent.  Replacing the valves - about an two labour - getting the engine re-timed....plus a new belt (and probably water pump whilst you are there) - call it 4-5hrs labour all in told if you have been lucky.

Yeah next port of call is to either sell the car as a spares and repairs or to get it in to a speciliat to have it checked over....  I thought that the injectors would be under the intake manifold and quite some work to get out to stick a camera inside.  If I had a compression test done, I'm guessing you would have had to have had the camera in there first to establish if the valve caps have snapped off etc... as turning it over to test comperssion with snapped valve caps would only make things a million times worse.

 

I recon orused  head is possibly the best way to go, but I need to take the plunge and find a decent garage that can collect the car to do those tests trouble is it would likley cost at least £150 just to get it towed to a garage in the first instance....  Everything you do is money sadly.  I know I could likley take the head off myself but the weather is a little too cold to be stuck outside doing that at the moment.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

There is, the timing belt is fully covered, albeit by plastic covers. I guess the aux belt  remnants flailing about managed to destroy part of the covering.

yeah must be I'll need to check

4 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

Serviced regular but not to a very high standard by the look of it. 
 

who has been servicing the car? That belt will more than likely have shown its age and I would expect this to be checked if I’m paying somebody to keep my car maintained

I agree - but thats not something I have any recourse with sadly so no pint in pointing the finger at poor servicing by the garage that generally did the service work.  The car was with a sales rep in Milton Keynes the garage servied it regular and charged handsomley for it but that was in the past. There is no recourse there.

11 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Or perhaps more likely, part of it jammed up the crank pulley, causing it to stop rotating abruptly? Not sure.

Quite possibly, I did smell rubber as it started running rough but I literally had 5 secs to react

6 hours ago, Gaz said:

 

Not sure of the value of using a borescope once the head's off?

 

It's not a dead cert that the head is toast at all, but you won't know without looking.  That it was at idle and 'gently stalled' might mean it stopped quicker, which in turn might mitigate the level of damage.  Unfortunately it's more likely for there to be damage than not.  In the mid '90's my S-i-L snapped the cam belt on her Ford Sierra, and then tried to start it.  Expecting the worst I got a replacement head before I started.  Once the head was off it was clear the original head was in better condition than the replacement and was easily repaired.  You never know - fingers crossed for you 🤞

 

Gaz

Lot's of the Ford Sierra's had a non interferance engine?  MY old Capri B reg back in the day was a non interfereance engine if I remember rightly.... I guess it depends on the engine fitted, defo the 2.0 ltr Pinto was a non interferance so you'd get away with a timing belt snap on them.

@Gremlyng I get the regular service thing if that is oil and filters, oil serviced and stuff.  When was the cam belt replaced? 

Edited 20 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

It is probably cheaper to borescope than put new belt on. And not necessarily, but  probably also more reasonable alternative. Then you know what the damage is and it will be easier to decide what to do.

 

Just throwing on new belt and hoping for best is most likely just waste of money and possibly causing more damage.