If you go LPG be warned, a friend got an Izuzu trooper with a lpg conversion which he uses for Hot Air Balloning.

I would have thought a Trooper would have been a bit heavy for hot air balooning? Dont they normally use big wicker baskets?

Dave

Yeah I agree. The modern ones are amazing to drive. Did you see Fifth Gear when they took a Lexus RH400 to a tree huggers convention. The look on their self satisfied faces when they were told that the big gas guzzling devil was in fact electric, was priceless. One of them even said they'd consider one. Tw@ts.

an environmentalist expressing an interest in an electric car...?????? whatever next :eek:

Yes, but their argument about size etc etc falls apart then dontcha think??? Hypocrites most of 'em

Been in a Land Rover Disco 3, Volvo XC90 today at the motor show on the off road course, If I could have one I would s0d what the hippy tree huggers say:D

Tow my caravan lovely

Noticed Land Rover were offering to pay some of your Road Tax due to the recent rise for cars with proper co2.

I'm glad so many of you are talking sense. I agree that it is a jealousy thing too. We live in a strange country in that respect' date=' where success and symbols of success are often sneered at, by those who would do exactly the same if they could.

Agree about the 4x4 driver's attitude too. Just like it's not guns that kill - it's the person firing the trigger.[/quote']

Not so sure. The only two vehicles that attract hostlility in the UK are 4 Wheel Drives and 3 Series BMW's. If this was about jealousy people would hate Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo drivers instead.

4WD and 3 series BMW drivers are hated because they are driven by rude, arrogant useless idiots more than other vehicles.

If the motoring public allow 4x4's to be forced out then the next target is likely to be sports/super cars, that's not something I want to see happen. Consumers should be able to make their own choice and not be forced down a particular route.

I agree!!

If people want to drive 4x4 then let them, why do they always want people to conform to all the PC bull ****e!

Oh and on the argument of safety - I would rather be hit by a 4x4 than a HGV lorry

A poem about Britian:

When they locked up the Fox Hunters,

I remained silent;

I was not a Fox Hunter.

When the Govenment came for the smokers,

I remained silent;

I was not a smoker.

When they came for the 4x4 owners,

I did not speak out;

I was drove a skoda.

When they came for the Children playing conckers in playgrounds,

I did not speak out;

I was not a conker playing child.

When they came for me and my skoda,

There was no one left to speak out.

Okay, maybe slightly dramatic - but it is a free country!!! Let people do what to.

Not so sure. The only two vehicles that attract hostlility in the UK are 4 Wheel Drives and 3 Series BMW's. If this was about jealousy people would hate Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo drivers instead.

4WD and 3 series BMW drivers are hated because they are driven by rude' date=' arrogant useless idiots more than other vehicles.[/quote']

Wow! That is quite some sweeping statement there. Does that mean that all Skoda owners are poor, tight, penny pinching barstewards then?? Of course not. 4x4 drivers do tend to drive aggressively I agree, but not all. And I agree that BMW 3 drivers do tend to think thay are more important than you, but again not all. But for the record, when I am out in our Porsche, most people think I am a ******, even when driving normally. And yet, in my TVR, it's still the same me, I get a thumbs up. I'm not just talking about envy towards cars either, the same applies to other trimmings like houses, jewellery etc.

I would happily ban all 4x4's from urban enviroments.

And just to add, I would happily spray fox hunters with fox scent then let a pack of hounds hunt them and rip them to shreds in the name of sport.

I would happily ban all 4x4's from urban enviroments.

And just to add' date=' I would happily spray fox hunters with fox scent then let a pack of hounds hunt them and rip them to shreds in the name of sport.[/quote']

That is you opinion, and you are welcome to it. I think people should have the freedom to do what they want - so long as it does not involve hurting others.

That is you opinion, and you are welcome to it. I think people should have the freedom to do what they want - so long as it does not involve hurting others.

And hunting fox'es to rip to shreds in the name of sport is ok then because they aren't human? Doesn't that hurt the fox?

Back on topic,

an argument made for driving 4x4's is the safety and visibility factor. What do you do when everyone has a 4x4? Where is the safety or visibility factor there when you can only see the back of the car in front?

I recently was in a Chelsea street. It was a narrow street, with cars parked both sides. There were around 20 cars parked evenly split between each side. Of those cars, 15 were 4x4's. Mostly X5's, a Cayenne, a Jeep thing and some Touregs. Standing behind 1 side of the parked queue, the drivers view in front of all bar the front 1 was no better than a queue of non 4x4'sl. As a pedestrian, the visibility factor was very much worse than non 4x4's.

I have no problem with free will and personal choice, but sometimes the collective good must win.

Just remember, Big car equates to small ****

Actually, that's flashy car (and only ONE flashy car in your garage), not big car.

That is you opinion, and you are welcome to it. I think people should have the freedom to do what they want - so long as it does not involve hurting others.

Agree totally. Lets not forget, people died fighting wars to ensure we lived in a free society. IMO, we are going backwards. Always some do-gooder trying to tell us what to do.

Agree totally. Lets not forget, people died fighting wars to ensure we lived in a free society. IMO, we are going backwards. Always some do-gooder trying to tell us what to do.

I agree millions have died for us to retain our social freedom. But since when does our society care about it's freedom when less than 35 % of the populous can be bothered to turn out to vote, the free ability to vote being one of the many things millions died for?

Lets not confuse a free society with a safe society.

I agree millions have died for us to retain our social freedom. But since when does our society care about it's freedom when less than 35 % of the populous can be bothered to turn out to vote' date=' the free ability to vote being one of the many things millions died for?

Lets not confuse a free society with a safe society.[/quote']

I know. How often do you hear people complain about life in this country, or Red Ken, or any other issue that is important to them? I say to them " Did you vote?" And they say "er, well no actually":thumbdwn:

I'm rather proud I have a 4x4! I can, no I mean I could understand if they wanted to over tax all big cars that drink lots of fuel and chuck out lots of crap, but it seem people are hell bent on blaming just 4x4.

In my book it's just singling them out, making fun of them, just being down right anti-social towards the lil darlings, they do have feelings you know.....

.......what the hell was that I just typed? Must still be high from all the fumes my 4x4 is chucking out!

On another point like eddy brought up where does the taxing point start and end? My series 2 is rwd unless I engage the 4wd, it's also a historical vehicle so I do not pay tax in the first place. Also the Honda cr-v is front wheel drive until they slip then the rear wheels coe into play, so it's not really a 4wd.

Personally I think all these stupid 4x4 haters should be rounded up and made into some sort of new eco-friendly bio-fuel.

Yup - Fiat do a Panda 4x4. Shall we ban it?

I think you know exaclty what I meant..

Of course Kentish. I am highlighting the flawed nature of the 4x4 debate. Instead they should scrap all the road tax and congestion charges and simply use fuel itself as a way of encouraging people to drive less or drive a greener car. The more you drive, the more you pay. Personally I think that's fair. Town planners could help with other issues surrounding 4x4s and Large cars by providing better parking facilities. Lets not forget, that all cars are getting larger and heavier because of new safety equipment etc. Sometimes parking a Ford Focus can be a squeeze these days. As for Pedestrian safety- they should stay off the road and stick to the pavement. Harsh but true. What do we do? Have a man walking in front of the car with a flag warning people of its passage. Hmmm, seem to remember that's been done before.

Hmmm

4x4 bashing, is it right?

Lookig at the pros and cons, 4x4 vehicles are nominally:

Cons (compared to normal cars):

Heavy

Bulky

Fuel Ineficient

Materials inefficient

Dynamically poor

Have a high driving position

Have longer stopping distances

Have poorer crash protection in impacts with solid objects

Have increased risk of rolling over

Cause increased damage to pedestrians on impact

Pros (compared to normal cars):

Have more seats available

Have a high driving position

Can be used off road

Have better crash protection if hitting a normal car

Can be more suited to towing

Where to start. If, as some state here, 4x4 vehicles where a small minority of the cars on the road, no one would mind, but they are not. The 4x4 has become fashoinable and here in Essex, they are a significant proportion of the vehicles on the roads, so in fuel use terms, they are significantly increasing the use of fuels. Try driving round Brentwood in the rush hour. Hordes of 4x4s driven by orange housewives with mobiles pressed to their ears.

If the safety aspect is your thing, well studies in the USA have found that fatalities per mile are higher in SUVs. Why could this be? Could it be a case of people taking bigger risks because they think the bulk of the vehicle will magically protect them? Could it be that the dynamic compromises of a heavy vehicle with a high centre of gravity and poor braking performance cause these cars to have more accidents? Dont know but worth thinking about.

On the aspect of the sort of drivers they attract, well I spend all day on the roads for a living. I have observed that generally, the 4x4 drivers are more likely to use aggressive or intimidating behaviour in their driving than drivers of normal cars, they are also less likely to be proficient drivers, less likely to park considerately and less likely to be courteous. Why could this be? My theory is that a large number of drivers of these cars tend to be poor drivers who like the perceived accident protection aspect the bulk offers, so a larger percentage of poor drivers will be evident than in normal cars. Of course there are many perfectly good drivers of 4x4s as well. There just tends to be trends, much like the propensity of a disproportionately large percentage of Merc and Beemer drivers to not use signals.

So on balance, the 4x4 is not a great choice unless you need off road capability. If you want more seats, got the MPV route.

Should they be banned? Absolutely not. Freedom of choice is something we all should have. Should we buy them then? Well IMO if you really need the capaility that cannot be offered by an alternative, then yes, but for the vast majority of people, they are just a fashoin statement that imposes problems of bulk and clutter for other road users. They are in fact the perfect vehicle for the sort of society we have created for ourselves.

So 4x4s should not be banned, but buyers should have consideration for others and just dont do it unless it is really necessary. Hell will freeze over before that happens.

Chris

Not so sure. The only two vehicles that attract hostlility in the UK are 4 Wheel Drives and 3 Series BMW's. If this was about jealousy people would hate Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo drivers instead.

4WD and 3 series BMW drivers are hated because they are driven by rude' date=' arrogant useless idiots more than other vehicles.[/quote']

very good point! I drive an e30 (1988) 320i bmw as my daily driver, and get annoyed at all these folks in newer BMw 3 series driving like a$$holes.

I've actually had bus drivers pop out their window and turn arond to see if it actually *was* a bmw that let them out...

as for the 4x4 debate-they have their place, and everyone is entiteld to spend their money as they see fit (within the law of course;) )

I'm not a huge fan, but proper off roaders like the Defender and the Trooper are very handy tools indeed- certainly more practical than an mx5 or a merc SL55 AMG type thing.

I loved my Disco and it was my daily driver for the best part of a year. Was good to drive (no driver aids!) and excellent fun to use and abuse off road. If we're banning "inappropriate" vehicles, why don't we ban anything above a 1.0l Micra - surely no-one needs anything capable of travelling above the NSL, especially when all the cars I see on the way to work only have a single person in!

Chris