But surely that's fraud - especially if all their cars are making well over what they say?!

I'm also interested why do they also quote their TFSI engine running on super unleaded, etc, rather than playing the figures down and running it on normal unleaded? :confused: If you can show me an engine dyno plot of a car making 140+ bhp out of a standard PD130 then I'll believe you :P:rofl:

Chris

i think this is the answer but from the oposite perspective - if they sell the car as 130bhp and its only 120 you could and would have a legitimate claim against them for false advertising , fitnes for purpose etc. if in reality you get a car that is slightly more powerful then you have no cause for complaint

so it would make sence to advertise the power based on the worst case or average of the production capacity. if there are also benefits to be had in keeping within a lower insurance grouping then that may also be a factor.

Thread from the dead.

Open to idea's, that's not neccesarily correct. It could still be fraud, because, if your car is making more power, than the standard quoted figures, then your insurance company would need to know I'm sure.

To be honest, it can work either way...... But, I doubt anyone is bothered LOL

One Awesome's rollers the fabia puts out 130bhp at the wheels. So do vag state power at flywheel or wheels

Dont VAG take their cars to the expreme when testing? So if the car makes 130 @ the fly at stupid hot climates they state that?

Well first thing first here chaps its not Skoda who claim these outputs its VAG. Every PD115bhp PD130 PD150 PD160 get their numbers from VAG.

Now PD160 & PD150 are not available accross the group however the PD130 is certainly available to every member of the group and they all quote the same output.

With the insurance issue its not just engine power that dictates groupings - NCAP result, average repair bill, cost of vehicle when new etc.

One Awesome's rollers the fabia puts out 130bhp at the wheels. So do vag state power at flywheel or wheels

They state them at the flywheel (as the engine dyno is bolted directly to the flywheel )....

HTH

Chris

I thought there has always been roughly a 10%+/- tolerance on PD units.

I believe they quote (as with 0-60) the absolute worst figure one built within their own tolerances will produce. Otherwise they end up in court, see

VAG tolerances are to within 5% as far as power output goes.

Also, it's worth noting that a rolling road dyno calculates engine power based on several assumptions (mathematical assumptions using wheel power as a base) so will be less accurate than a bench dyno. On the back of that some RRs are more accurate than others because they themselves are built to certain tolerances too.

the golf 1.9 tdi 150 can push around 200 bhp from a remap whereas the fabia vrs 1.9 tdi 130 can push 180 if your lucky with a top tuner and have a few other modifications to go with it, this is due to a different turbo, strengthened internals and intercooler if i remember correctly. you can obviously upgrade the fabia 1.9 tdi 130 to be able to cope with over 200 bhp but that costs

However I wouldn't mind betting that a 'chipped' PD130 is a more drivable car than a 'chipped' PD150, because the smaller turbo will spin up quicker at low revs.

Wouldn't the map take that into account though?

Chris

Wouldn't the map take that into account though?

Chris

There is only so much that a remap can do. The PD150 effectively has more turbo lag than the PD130, because of the bigger turbo. A remap would certainly increase the PD150 power output considerably, but it won't make the turbo spin up any quicker.

There is only so much that a remap can do. The PD150 effectively has more turbo lag than the PD130, because of the bigger turbo. A remap would certainly increase the PD150 power output considerably, but it won't make the turbo spin up any quicker.

A remap will change the fuel and boost maps so you can adjust the point at which the turbo spools up in the rev range.....

Chris

I'm not convinced. By design, the larger turbo fitted to the PD150 is always going to take longer to spool up than the smaller PD130 turbo. If it was possible to reduce the lag via a remap, why wouldn't VAG do that in the first place? When fitting a larger turbo to any car (petrol or diesel), you are always going to compromise performance lower down the rev range.

I do recall reading the original review of the PD150 and the overall view was that the 150PD could be driven much more like a petrol.

Also unless your using the revs in the real world the PD130 will be quicker as it spools up quicker.

Have any of you read the following article on the CTR v GolfPD150 its a very interesting read

Diesel Car online - Welcome to Diesel Car dot Com!

http://www.dieselcar.com/pdf-files/articles/tuning/168-spr-tuninggolf.pdf

http://www.dieselcar.com/pdf-files/articles/tuning/169-dms-tuning.pdf

Evos review

Volkswagen Golf GT TDi PD 150 | evo Car Reviews | Car Reviews | evo

One of the main reasons the PD150 takes longer to spool up isnt the different turbo, its the large front mount intercooler that takes longer to build up pressure

One of the main reasons the PD150 takes longer to spool up isnt the different turbo, its the large front mount intercooler that takes longer to build up pressure

Comparing the rate of change of intake air pressure from Vag-Com logs before and after my SMIC was replaced by a FMIC, there is very little measured difference, and what there is indicates quicker spoolup with the FMIC.

I do recall reading the original review of the PD150 and the overall view was that the 150PD could be driven much more like a petrol.

Also unless your using the revs in the real world the PD130 will be quicker as it spools up quicker.

Have any of you read the following article on the CTR v GolfPD150 its a very interesting read

Diesel Car online - Welcome to Diesel Car dot Com!

http://www.dieselcar.com/pdf-files/articles/tuning/168-spr-tuninggolf.pdf

http://www.dieselcar.com/pdf-files/articles/tuning/169-dms-tuning.pdf

Evos review

Volkswagen Golf GT TDi PD 150 | evo Car Reviews | Car Reviews | evo

Interesting reads there

Some good Reading there!