Wonder if anyone can offer advice...

Briefly:

My 2002 registered 1.9 Tdi Ambiente) refused to start about 1 month ago. Recovery chap identified the anti-shudder valve as the problem. Took to dealer who 'cleaned out throttle body' (eighty-eight quid, ta very much). Car started ok for a couple of weeks but now I'm noticing that on a morning it takes a few turns of the starter to get going. Bit concerning as in the past it's always started first time.

Plus, it doesn't always do it. Every time I get the bonnet up (not that it'll tell me much - all I can check is the valve - and to be fair it doesn't appear to half opening/closing any more) it seems to start ok.

Other bits and pieces.

- Once the it has started in the morning the car is usually ok for the rest of the day.

- Car was serviced (dealer) Dec 2007. It did have a new coolant sensor fitted, otherwise a std 60000 mile service.

How I loved this car when I first got it 5 years ago - I'm slowly going off it - could anyone offer advice of what to look for to pin this down?

Many, many thanks...

pmb

You had a new battery yet?

Wonder if anyone can offer advice...

Briefly:

My 2002 registered 1.9 Tdi Ambiente) refused to start about 1 month ago. Recovery chap identified the anti-shudder valve as the problem. Took to dealer who 'cleaned out throttle body' (eighty-eight quid, ta very much). Car started ok for a couple of weeks but now I'm noticing that on a morning it takes a few turns of the starter to get going. Bit concerning as in the past it's always started first time.

Plus, it doesn't always do it. Every time I get the bonnet up (not that it'll tell me much - all I can check is the valve - and to be fair it doesn't appear to half opening/closing any more) it seems to start ok.

Other bits and pieces.

- Once the it has started in the morning the car is usually ok for the rest of the day.

- Car was serviced (dealer) Dec 2007. It did have a new coolant sensor fitted, otherwise a std 60000 mile service.

How I loved this car when I first got it 5 years ago - I'm slowly going off it - could anyone offer advice of what to look for to pin this down?

Many, many thanks...

pmb

I assume you mean "sketchy" starting......ie turns over OK but doesn't "catch" for a few cranks?

Well, it sounds just like our 2003 Octavia 1.9TDi 110.

Had this issue around early December IIRC, and I was doing some good miles in it at the time (it's the wife's car - was borrowing while my car arrived).

Anyways - I did a scan with vag-com to find the common "intermittent engine coolant sensor" fault.

Replaced the sensor (this was at 78k).

It improved matters but it wasn't perfect.

I then adjusted the EGR valve (the one you mention) using vag-com and the car's been alot better since.

Not perfect but better.

My next option is new glow-plugs for around

Hello Cheezemonkhai.... thanks for the reply.

...no, haven't had a new battery yet.

Would it help?

Thanks for the reply, Foxy.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

Up to December 2006 the car *always* started first time. After the service it just started (gradually) to take longer + longer to start until finally it gave up one morning.

The natural conclusion to draw would be that it was somehow to do with the service, but of course that's just inference.

Once the car gets started it drives just as it always has. And some mornings it does 'catch' first time.

In your opinion is this something that's just going to get worse and kill the car catastrophically or is this something that can be headed off at the pass?

And is it a 'dealer' job?

I then adjusted the EGR valve (the one you mention) using vag-com and the car's been alot better since.

What does adjusting the EGR valve do?

Hello Cheezemonkhai.... thanks for the reply.

...no, haven't had a new battery yet.

Would it help?

At 5+ years old most batteries start to run out of steam :(

The older dervs I had had no problem running to 10 years, but it seems that these days the electrical demands on a car mean that this is rare.

Certainly trying a new battery will help with cranking, but also current / voltage drops could be causing sensors to display weird values meaning the car over/under fuels etc.

It is certainly something worth considering, although topping the cells up and putting it on a trickle charge might be sufficient to diagnose.

HTH

Another thought, which certainly helps with mine when it's cold. Don't even try and start the engine as soon as the glowplug light goes out; wait until the airbag test light goes out (so the only idiot light still showing is the seatbelt one).

What does adjusting the EGR valve do?

Yes, I've heard this mentioned a bit. What is it? Where is it? What does it do? How does it go wrong? How is it adjusted?

Thanks Ken, thanks for the advice. I have been trying this, on and off for a while - on the theory that something isn't having time to 'initialise' or something.

Haven't established yet whether it makes a difference. Will give it a more thorough try...

It's not an "initialisation"; it's to give the glowplugs more time to heat the combustion chambers. I'm not sure how long they heat for on the VAG engines, but they used to heat for 30 to 60s on older diesels.

DI dervs don't need the glows for so long, however if you want try cycling the ignition on and off two or three times before firing the car up as this will give the glows a couple of attempts to get hot.

Of course the other obvious thing to check is that you are not getting air into the fuel lines as it sounds like it is happening after being left standing for a while. What you might want to try is putting a small amount of suitable thick grease over the connections to the fuel filter and pump and see if this reduces or stops the problem.

If it does remove the grease one joint at a time until it comes back and you have your problem

HTH

All agreed, but I'm talking about giving it what, maybe 5s rather than 2s warmup?

Should have considered airlocking though, esp since the Octy doesn't have a priming pump!

At 5+ years old most batteries start to run out of steam

HTH

OK, I will check the battery and thanks for the the tip. :handshke:

Two questions:

- Having got the car started, I can stop/start at will, it *always* catches first time. Would this rule out the battery? The problem seems to be when the car has been stood overnight... :confused:

- Assuming it *is* the battery am I ok to just swap a new one in myself? Or am I going to s*** anything up (eg: stereo code? engine management?) At the last service the dealer blathered on about it 'looking like the battery had been disconnected' - how would they be able to tell that?

DI dervs don't need the glows for so long, however if you want try cycling the ignition on and off two or three times before firing the car up as this will give the glows a couple of attempts to get hot.

Of course the other obvious thing to check is that you are not getting air into the fuel lines as it sounds like it is happening after being left standing for a while. What you might want to try is putting a small amount of suitable thick grease over the connections to the fuel filter and pump and see if this reduces or stops the problem.

If it does remove the grease one joint at a time until it comes back and you have your problem

HTH

Thanks for the tips Ken + cheezemonkhai. Will try all your suggestions! :holmes:

OK, I will check the battery and thanks for the the tip. :handshke:

Two questions:

- Having got the car started, I can stop/start at will, it *always* catches first time. Would this rule out the battery? The problem seems to be when the car has been stood overnight... :confused:

Give the grease trick a go first, sounds more like air than the battery due to it only being when you leave it over night.

- Assuming it *is* the battery am I ok to just swap a new one in myself? Or am I going to s*** anything up (eg: stereo code? engine management?) At the last service the dealer blathered on about it 'looking like the battery had been disconnected' - how would they be able to tell that?

You might need a couple of things reset. Make sure you have the radio code. It should be coded to the cars ECU, but this isn't a given. I can't say I am sure on this point I am affraid.

You may have guessed from the way I've described things that I'm not that au fait with things under the bonnet - a long time since I've had to do any work on a motor (car used to be a company one).

So my plan was to buy a Hanes manual to identify just where I need to be applying the grease.

However, I've just had the bonnet up + if you're talking about that transparent pipe to the front left as you look into the engine space, then I noticed a bubble in it about an inch long. (This was immediately after parking up after a 13 mi 3/4 stop/start journey).

Is this a bad thing? (started the engine and off went the bubble... stopped it quickly and smaller bubble floated back up the pipe).

:rubchin: Sorry for going on...

More trouble....

.. this morning the car really struggled to go uphill. Standing in a queue of traffic at the brow of a (relatively) steep hill, really took revs to get it up there. Had to put the handbrake on 3 times over a 10 yard stretch, rev really high and drop the clutch in slowly. Even when fully in there just seemed to be no power being delivered, just had to keep revving.

Could this be related?

Sorry, should add that the car was fine for the rest of the journey (on the flat).

My impression is also that it's a tiny bit 'sluggish' - hardly noticeable but just not as 'punchy' as it used to be....

Right well a couple of suggestions:

- Change the Mass Airflow (MAF) sensor if it hasn't been done. Get the genuine BOSCH item which is IIRC about £65 on exchange from a dealer, as while this may not be the cause they do tend to go a bit poor over a good few miles. While you are at it you may as well stick a clean air filter in at £10ish to protect the new MAF from dirt etc.

- The clear tube you see will sometimes have a small amount of air in it, what you need to watch is that the bubble doesn't grow overnight. You will see in the front left of the bay what looks like a big drinks can with a few pipes going into the top of it. These are ideal candidates for air leaks and you should apply grease over the ends of these making sure it won't damage the hoses. Ditto for connections on the other end of the pipes under the bay and the black and clear pipe too. IIRC a main dealer garage put copper grease over them when changing filters and on old cars i used to use a little bit of vaslene or similar.

- If you are reving hight then letting the clutch in up hills it sounds as if your clutch could be wearing out. Try accelerating a little bit in first on the flat, then changing up into third or forth (eg a gear where it would ususally struggle to pull) if the revs rise and the car isn't accelerating as it should or struggling then your clutch has started to slip.

HTH

Dear pmbpmb

If you look at my post about my solved starting problem you'll see that it's not the same as yours as mine always started first thing in the morning. Mine is the older equivalent of the 1.9 Ambiente Tdi, a 1999 car with 105,000 miles.

However a new battery solved my problem and at

Thanks, will try both suggestions.

Delighted with your responses, btw. If only the dealer were as helpful...

Dear pmbpmb

If you look at my post about my solved starting problem you'll see that it's not the same as yours as mine always started first thing in the morning. Mine is the older equivalent of the 1.9 Ambiente Tdi, a 1999 car with 105,000 miles.

However a new battery solved my problem and at

I have to say that i thought the battery is a good candidate, however since your problems are only after a long sit overnight, it does sound more like air in the fuel lines.

I would try the grease first as it is cheapest, then probably go the route of the battery and MAF etc.

Hi, just checking in: don't want to just post when I have a problem!!! (*If I get to the bottom of this I propmise to post back, just in case anyone else has the same thing).

Checked clutch - stalled every time so I don't think there's a problem there. Maybe it was just my crap driving. (You do start picking up on every little thing when a fault develops - well, I do anyway). It's been up the same hill many times since, no bother. D'oh!

Anyway, back to starting - tried Vaseline on all the joints I could find except the 2 on the return into the diesel filter (as I wasn't sure about gunking round there) and the two right at the back.

Still a bit 'iffy' on occasions. Having said that it started first turn on 2 mornings this week. Can't pin down why that would be. Both wet days is all I can say. Can't see why that would make a difference (though the chaps at work kicked off about how cars do start better with damper, 'heavier' air... ). I'm even wondering whether it's affected by whether I park uphill or downhill (though we're not talking about Everest here!) Also, turning it over *as soon as* the glowplugs light goes out. All just specualtion at the moment...

Still seeing bubble over an inch long in the fuel line but it doesn't seem to affect the running of the engine.

One question: if there *is* air getting into the fuel line, wouldn't that imply some kind of diesel leakage *out*? Or is it a question of the same air in the line, just going round and round and sometimes ending up in the wrong place? :confused:

If this is a 'priming' issue, I'd love some more information as to how the mechanism works (and how it might be going wrong!) Is there a 'Noddy's guide to diesel engines' kicking around?

Thanks for the tips - don't feel obliged to respond, BTW - there's always the garage at the end of the day. Interesting to find out about this, though! (And great to solve without having to replace loads of sensors... )