Gordon Brown,I despair

[Kandy]

He inherited a strong economy from the previous government and an economy actually in surplus. We are now massively in debt, he is spending more money than he gets in taxes and he owes more to luck than skill in keeping the economy on track. Interest rates are low and inflation is low because wages are low, partly due to jobs being lost abroad creating a surplus in the job market of low skilled jobs. House prices are currently high due to low interest rates, but when they start to rise again, then the pain will begin, I suspect it will be up to the Tories to sort it out again like in the late 70's, early 80's, I just hope whoever is in charge is up to the job.

Valid points, all Gorden had to do was 'babysit' the status quo he inherited. It has been recounted before that he was extremely miffed that the 'books' he inherited were in such a good state and there was nothing to blame on the Conservatives.

What he has done is raise the tax burden and borrowing and create a 'false' economy with a services bias and ~25?% of jobs now working for the state. It will all unravel at some point and we'll be feeling the pain for decades to come. Apparently the low interest rates were deliberately used to cause rising house prices and create a consumer boom to head of a recession. Again that is unsustainable and all that outstanding credit will cause big problems in the future.

[Kandy]

I think you will find that come 2025 or there abouts there will be more pensioners than young/employed.

I take it you were born educated, qualified and fully supportive of yourself then?

I will have made my own provisions for my old age and yes I have already contributed far more in tax than I have ever 'used' in return.

[Lady Elanore]

I think you will find that come 2025 or there abouts there will be more pensioners than young/employed.

I take it you were born educated, qualified and fully supportive of yourself then?

Kandys point is the investment of our NIC from recent years is not going to be there for us when we retire.

It just means we now have to support not only our selves but the malingerers that will be living off benefits when we are old.:(

Apart from junior and Grammar school I have always paid my way and not really had my moneys worth out of the NHS either (which is lucky for me) but that is missing the point. I

[Buster]

Lady E, I'm with you all the way on that! I'm not having kids, cos I don't like kids and if I did want kids, I can't afford to have them!

How does New Zealand sound? Maybe a break from this country for a couple of years will help decide if it is so bad after all (at the moment, it does seem that crappy!).

off to finish job application...

[JPreston]

...

The pension point is a low-blow too. We pay for our own pensions.....

No we don't, we pay to fund current pensioners.

(And not singling out any individual's comments but) Honestly all this moaning about how we would be better off under the tories and their famously even-keeled economy, somehow still with the 10% tax rate (that brown introduced) and tax credits (that brown introduced), or living in New Zealand (where the burden of taxation is higher than the UK FFS) is beyond a joke. It's like the letters pages in the Daily Mail. POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD THE LUNATICS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE ASYLUM etc etc etc.

Surely noone really expected their life to materially change overnight as a result of the budget? I'm about £170 better off, so w00t. In order to be worse off you have to be low-paid and without kids, in which case there is nothing stopping you from borrowing Norman Tebbit's bike and getting a better-paid job, to borrow the popular right-wing mantra. Squawking about how unfair it is that working parents get means tested tax credits probably won't help.

You're economically active for about half of your life - so while you are, of course you pay for your neighbours' bins to be emptied and children to be schooled. This was also the case before the budget. What's so terrible and surprising? :confused:

[Lady Elanore]

I wonder how many of us Rob can put up?

I do quite like kids however, just I don't have any of my own

[anonymouse]

I do quite like kids however, just I don't have any of my own

Eaten them all ?

[cheezemonkhai]

Like them or not, we have had 10 years of solid stability as regards the economy and during that time there has been no viable alternative. There maybe next time though.

And massive debts too

[Lady Elanore]

You're economically active for about half of your life - so while you are, of course you pay for your neighbours' bins to be emptied and children to be schooled. This was also the case before the budget. What's so terrible and surprising? :confused:

Again this misses my point. I have been talking about now. I am paying for my neighbour

[apd007]

No we don't, we pay to fund current pensioners.

(And not singling out any individual's comments but) Honestly all this moaning about how we would be better off under the tories and their famously even-keeled economy, somehow still with the 10% tax rate (that brown introduced) and tax credits (that brown introduced), or living in New Zealand (where the burden of taxation is higher than the UK FFS) is beyond a joke. It's like the letters pages in the Daily Mail. POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD THE LUNATICS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE ASYLUM etc etc etc.

Surely noone really expected their life to materially change overnight as a result of the budget? I'm about

[lozgti]

JP

I know by your profession that you do genuinely understand the figures far better than the rest of us.

What are your thoughts though on

1.The admissions that interest rates have been kept artificially low to fuel a property boom? (I thought Bof E was meant to be independant)

2.An economy based on this boom that seems to have simply opened the divide between rich and poor (not very labour like)

3.Huge levels of personal borrowing.I presume partly through people thinking they are wealthy (dip into the equity) and personal bankruptcies rocketing (court figures,not Daily Mail stats!)

4.A budget that on the face of it,does absolutely nothing? no real benefits to anyone,just a lot of paper shuffling.

5.Is the next C of E inheriting the hottest potato of all time?

[Kentish]

I think you have to look furrther back than the current chancellor to find the reason why personal debt is what it is, Mrs T and her "buy now pay later" consumerism that she encouraged is closer to the cause, and once started is hard to stop.

[Moose]

I'm just really hoping that when the interest rate rises, savings rates go with them, along with credit card rates etc. Could turn quite nicely for me. My job is fairly safe as its working for NHS and I have no mortgage or other bills that cannot be got rid of. I also have very little debt (under £3k), so it could work in my favour, as long as I use that time well.

[Johnwg]

My job is fairly safe as its working for NHS

:eek: God which Trust do you work for, and doing what !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Moose]

:eek: God which Trust do you work for, and doing what !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, its more indirectly working for them. I deliver medical oxygen on behalf of various NHS trusts. If I actually worked for my local one, trust me, I wouldn't be waiting 21 weeks in the waiting list just for a blinking MRI scan. I'd call sick saying I can't get to work until they see to me

[Johnwg]

Well, its more indirectly working for them. I deliver medical oxygen on behalf of various NHS trusts.

Ahhhhhhhhhh good move

Edit: Move to Blackpool you'll have an MRI scan a dam sight quicker than 21 weeks !!!

[apd007]

I think you have to look furrther back than the current chancellor to find the reason why personal debt is what it is, Mrs T and her "buy now pay later" consumerism that she encouraged is closer to the cause, and once started is hard to stop.

Gordon Brown has been chancellor now for nearly 10 years, Maggie left the job in 1991, you can't keep blaming the 80's for stuff happening 20 years later. Even Gordon Brown will say were are in a different economic cycle.

[Johnwg]

Good debate this... any one watched 'The Trap' on BBC 2 9pm Sunday evenings - helps make sense of all of this, try looking at the bigger picture

[JPreston]

JP

I know by your profession that you do genuinely understand the figures far better than the rest of us.

What are your thoughts though on

.....

TBH I don't really know jack , but

1. Who's admitted that? House prices are totally outside the bank's concern, and yes they are independent (thanks to gordon brown). Property has boomed around the world due to worldwide low rates and stable growth, though. A boom doesn't actually benefit anyone, govt included, except perhaps by over-encouraging consumer confidence to some extent. Ultimately it's a pyramid scheme...

2. IIRC social mobility and gaps in relative have grown, slightly but still scandalously, under labour. it's thatcher's fault; 'there's no such thing as society', now it's fashionable to despise the working class, bray about stealth taxes, moan about people having children etc. Baby boomers retiring and depending on the state more and more (BTW nice one gordon, extra

[simonsheil]

3. National debt I believe is at it's lowest for decades.

National debt is at its highest ever at

[simonsheil]

Also in terms of Pensions Gordan Browns £6 billion raid a year on private pensions has hardly helped people has it.

[simonsheil]

There has been sensible talk of slapping the banks with a windfall tax.

Thats it, theres a problem I know Tax it. Uk banks do a very good job of making money (almost entirely from business deals) and pay a lot of tax on it. What will happen when you add yet more tax? They will simply move headquarters to a more friendlt country and file profits there, hence sucesfully driving out more business.

[Kandy]

And don't forget the ill-timed gold reserves sell-off cost the tax payer considerably more than Black Wednesday (prudent????)....

[JPreston]

There is one slight problem in your argument. I have a degree and masters in automotive engineering. When I left Uni in 2003 I couldn't get a job ....

There's probably more than one slight problem in my argument

But who ever told you would have a job in manufacturing? They all went 20 - 30 years ago, and it's thatcher's fault (again). Did you think you would undercut chinese factories, where people earn

[ncarring]

You've got to smile at an accountant preaching socialism ...