This website describes how to and why, far better than I could

Heel and Toe Downshift

Chris

Is it best to try to learn this next time I have a hire car?

If your Octavia cuts engine power when you brake, then yes It doesn't in itself do any damage to the car and all you'll notice the first few times you try it is that it's just not very smooth....

Chris

I remember when I was learning to do this back when I was 18. First time I did it, I head-butted the stearing wheel so hard it set the horn off and left a citroen symbol mark on my forhead.

Good find Chris

It's very satisfying when you get it right

Steve

Interesting article. I don't personally know anyone who drives round corners with the clutch depressed, so it's not really comparing apples with apples, but there's no doubt if you can master it (which I know I haven't), it will make your down changes faster. Unfortunately it falls under the "two heads" category - you can't do it for IAM or Rospa, but it is a way to go faster, so you have to develop two driving styles.

There are circumstances where it is permissible under IAM/RoSPA as it is a tool in the toolbox which allows smoothness. For example, grabbing an intermediate gear while approaching a hazard under braking, to prevent the car stalling. It would also be acceptable somewhere like on a downhill turn where the car would roll on if you went for brake/gear separation

Chris

Pretty much mastered heel-toe in my old astra van and polo, for a smoother downshift, and a litle earlier, but debatable whether it was any quicker. Still learning the specifics for the Octy (only had it 3 weeks). Very satisfying when you get it right though. I was under the impression that power was cut if you hit the clutch or break, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

I'd love to get it working on my Corrado, but the throttle response is too slow at lower reves, and theres too much slack in the cable.

Phil

From a Roadcraft perspective, the braking and gear changing phases should be separate, so by using heel 'n' toe it's quicker because you can leave the braking phase later and overlap the gear change during it.....

Chris

Pretty much mastered heel-toe in my old astra van and polo, for a smoother downshift, and a litle earlier, but debatable whether it was any quicker.

OK rephrase my comment - it should make the brake/gearchange process quicker overall since you don't have to take your foot off the brake to blip the throttle for the downchange. Agree it doesn't actually speed the downshift.

interesting article, and certainly seems to be a useful technique for driving in general and not just when you're razzing about

i was impressed by their choice of vehicle

Ive been trying this when i can and can sometimes get it when im not too hard on the brakes but if i need to step on the brakes i cant manage it without lifting off them slightly.

I guess i just need to keep practising at it

It'll depend car to car, but for the most part, for a smooth change, it works best when you are hard on the brakes and have a nice stable platform to roll your foot onto the throttle into a known position to raise the revs. I've found if you're not hard on the brakes, chances are you won't need to heel 'n' toe as you could brake harder to make time to separate the braking and gear change phases

And yes, practice is the key!

Chris

I have never been able to Heel n

I have never been able to Heel n

Pressing the brake and throttle simultaneously dumps boost and it takes a couple of seconds to build up again, not much good if you are changing down and quickly want to accelerate again. Also the heavy flywheel and slow revving nature of diesels means it

Pressing the brake and throttle simultaneously dumps boost.

Well in my TDI (Octavia '54 plate 130 PD) the ECU cuts the power if the brake and throttle are pressed while the clutch is not pressed (though it doesn't just dump the boost it cuts the RPM as if the throttle wasn't pressed). If the clutch is pressed in then you can use the brake and throttle all you want ... I do understand what you are saying I just don't agree that heel 'n' toe is impossible in a recent VAG TDI ... If I understand the heel 'n' toe technique properly the clutch should be depressed before blipping the throttle for the downchange ... in which case the ECU shouldn't cut the power. I'd have thought that the only technique that this ECU "feature" should affect would be left foot braking.

Well in my TDI (Octavia '54 plate 130 PD) the ECU cuts the power if the brake and throttle are pressed while the clutch is not pressed (though it doesn't just dump the boost it cuts the RPM as if the throttle wasn't pressed). If the clutch is pressed in then you can use the brake and throttle all you want ... I do understand what you are saying I just don't agree that heel 'n' toe is impossible in a recent VAG TDI ... If I understand the heel 'n' toe technique properly the clutch should be depressed before blipping the throttle for the downchange ... in which case the ECU shouldn't cut the power. I'd have thought that the only technique that this ECU "feature" should affect would be left foot braking.

My 53 plate Toledo 130TDi and my 06 plate 2.0TDi Octy both die if you press bake and throttle simultaneously regardless of the position of the clutch (although I guess the word throttle should not be used on a Diesel) I would add that I think the ECU drops the revs down too.

With heel n

My 53 plate Toledo 130TDi and my 06 plate 2.0TDi Octy both die if you press bake and throttle simultaneously regardless of the position of the clutch (although I guess the word throttle should not be used on a Diesel) I would add that I think the ECU drops the revs down too.

With heel n

I think the original article was a pretty good find Chris.

It makes the point that blipping the throttle when changing down ensures a smoother gear change. If you

I don't so much heel and toe, but use the different sides of my right foot to balance the revs when down changing, simply for smoothness. Its quite simple, and as long as your not braking hard the ECU lets you do it just fine.

I don't so much heel and toe, but use the different sides of my right foot to balance the revs when down changing, simply for smoothness. Its quite simple, and as long as your not braking hard the ECU lets you do it just fine.

But if you're heel 'n' toeing under light braking, aren't you just doing it for the sake of doing it, rather than because it's the best tool for the job. An overlap would allow you to brake later and firmer, and get the gear change in before the hazard. If you are light braking towards a hazard, you must have plenty of time so you can easily separate the braking (a shorter but firmer application) and gear change?

Chris

I can confirm heel'n'toe works just fine in a petrol Octy VRS

Agree with Chris - if you're BGOLing with light braking, what's the point? Leave it in gear, brake more firmly, and block change.

Nope, can't do it with heavy braking due to the engine cut off with the brake pedal switch.

Yep, pretty much for the sake of doing it, just a gentle heel and toe, nice way of matching the revs for the smoothest gearchange, and overall a lot quicker than slowing to the speed, coming off the brake and then changing gear before making the manoevre.

Pretty pointless in a VAG car, it simply doesn't work, although you can slide your foot over to switch between pedals quickly.

Yep, pretty much for the sake of doing it, just a gentle heel and toe, nice way of matching the revs for the smoothest gearchange, and overall a lot quicker than slowing to the speed, coming off the brake and then changing gear before making the manoevre.

A lot quicker? Not sure I'd agree with that I guess it depends whether you modulate the braking before and after the heel 'n' toe or whether you maintain gentle braking....

Chris