Ok, the topic of not booting it at 1,800 rpm etc is well documented for reasons of prolonging the life of your DMF, but if this is the case then why does the PD in standard map guise provide it's best shove at this lowly rev range where you can't use it?

The manufacturers advertise peak torque at something like 1,900 rpm (can't remember the exact point) but this is daft when you can't plant your foot until over 2-2.5k for fear of knackering something up.

Bit like having your cake but not being able to eat it really, especially when that surge of torque at low rpm is the best fun on the unmapped cars.

Basically it made me think, at what point should I be in a certain gear? I find myself using 5th a lot more now until I've reached at least 70 or 80 before selecting 6th, wheras before I was tempted to go for 6th at say 60.

Can it really do that much damage if I'm a little careless with the power in high gears?.

I thought the idea of a diesel was low down grunt so you didn't have to rev it more? Seems like through fitting a flimsy DMF they've shot themselves in the foot with that one.

Opinions welcome.

I thought there was only really a risk of damaging the DMF if you booted it at low revs IN A HIGH GEAR? If I'm in traffic on the motorway, I'll keep it in 5th or 6th and adjust speed accordingly, but if a gap opens up, I'll drop it to 4th or even 3rd (if the traffic's been particularly slow) in order to accelerate. Yes, the stats say peak torque is at 1900rpm or wherever, but I gather it's to do with getting the best balance of torque and power. And this occurs higher up the rev range - so there might be less of a 'push in the back', but you'll be making better progress overall.

That might be a load of poo, technically (I'm getting a bit of flak for quoting half-remembered posts at the mo :( ) - but it seems to work for me!

The purpose of the DMF is to dampen down NVH through the drive train caused by high torque levels at low revs.

The problem is that some aren't lasting that long.

I've gone for the SMF & uprated clutch. Sure, it's a little noisy on idle, but I have the confidence of knowing that I can use all the torque below 2Krpm.

If you get a nice custom map, people tend to have the torque spread over the rev range a little better to prolong the life of the clutch and DMF. I'd imagine it's also better on emissions as it wont overfuel so much off boost. Makes me wonder why VAG didn't map the standard PD accordingly. Perhaps the instant shove of the PD was their marketing gimmick? Most modern common rail diesels now rev better rather than give it all up at low rpms like the PD does.

This DMF thing is bothering me slightly - at no point when the dealer sold me the car was I told not to boot it at lower revs in higher gears. Can't say I've read it in the manual, either.

If my car is [unmodified] within warranty, and I have a DMF issue because of this, will I be refused a FOC replacement DMF?

My 06 car, with 8,000 miles... Saw the DMF on it's way out... Hehehe.

The purpose of the DMF is to dampen down NVH through the drive train caused by high torque levels at low revs.

Partly yes but the main point of the DMF is to increase engine response at lower RPM and increase smoothness at higher RPM. due to centrifugal force the flywheel effectively becomes lighter at low RPM as the weights are central, and when higher engine RPM's are used the weight moves to the outside of the flywheel effectively making it heavier. (light flywheel = resposive engine, heavy flywheel = smooth engine, Dual Mass Flywheel = best of both worlds)

Lower gears (i.e. 1st and 2nd) and hard launches are what damage the DMF as this is when it's under the most stress, as is the clutch, gearbox etc.

Booting it in higher gears at low rpm should not cause you any trouble.

At the end of the day, drive your car how you want, enjoy it, and worry about the flywheel if and when it goes wrong. cars are for driving not nannying!

And don't forget compressor surge as another IMHO more important reason not to give it too much beans at low revs, requesting more boost than is available can cause the compressor to stall...which is not good

Partly yes but the main point of the DMF is to increase engine response at lower RPM and increase smoothness at higher RPM. due to centrifugal force the flywheel effectively becomes lighter at low RPM as the weights are central, and when higher engine RPM's are used the weight moves to the outside of the flywheel effectively making it heavier. (light flywheel = resposive engine, heavy flywheel = smooth engine, Dual Mass Flywheel = best of both worlds)

Yeah, I agree with that. Since fitting the SMF, the engine has become more responsive but has lost a little refinement.

Lower gears (i.e. 1st and 2nd) and hard launches are what damage the DMF as this is when it's under the most stress, as is the clutch, gearbox etc.

Booting it in higher gears at low rpm should not cause you any trouble.

Well I never! Yet again, I mention something that I picked up on here that's now being called into question! :rubchin:

First and Second gears, require the highest torque levels....

Although, Booting it in higher gears, will also cause damage.

Hmmm...worth reading:

http://www.aftermarketnews.com/default.aspx?type=wm&module=4&id=3&state=DisplayFullText&item=5202

After reading that article it leads me to believe that it could be my DMF causing the light clunk when I dip the clutch to change gear in the lower gears. No other car I've driven makes that noise, and it may be down to weak springs. Interesting.

Uncertainty about the DMF handling power levels for which is wasn't designed for was the main reason I upgraded to a SMF. A little loss in refinement, but nothing is likely to damage a solid steel SMF......

Uncertainty about the DMF handling power levels for which is wasn't designed for was the main reason I upgraded to a SMF. A little loss in refinement, but nothing is likely to damage a solid steel SMF......

After reading recommendations regarding the DMF's lifespan under normal circumstances the prospect of fitting a SMF along with clutch and pressure plate later in the cars life sounds like a good idea. How much refinement are we talking about here?

If you keep in the clutch - almost no difference... If you have it in neutral and clutch out - sortof a rapid rattley idle - like any derv delivery van...

I start up with the clutch in and often turn it off the same way - really no change for me....

Performance-wise the car revs faster and appears to have faster acceleration - no heavy DMF inertia to overcome....

Yes - I love it!

If you keep in the clutch - almost no difference... If you have it in neutral and clutch out - sortof a rapid rattley idle - like any derv delivery van...

I start up with the clutch in and often turn it off the same way - really no change for me....

Performance-wise the car revs faster and appears to have faster acceleration - no heavy DMF inertia to overcome....

Yes - I love it!

I'll second that!

After reading that article it leads me to believe that it could be my DMF causing the light clunk when I dip the clutch to change gear in the lower gears. No other car I've driven makes that noise, and it may be down to weak springs. Interesting.

your clunk could just be gear train backlash , when you dip the clutch you take the pressure off the gears slightly , which could make the clunk , mine does it sometimes depending how i drive it

the PD DMF doesn't really have springs as such , it has a damping medium inside it , which is like a VERY sticky grease , when the DMF bursts , this is deposited inside the bellhousing and is a pig to remove :(

Ah I see. So there's really nothing to wear out then as such, just damage if you give it too many beans in high gears.

So, in terms of using the torque, is say booting it in 2nd at circa 1,800 rpm safe....how about 3rd? I'd imagine 4th and deffo 5th / 6th are out on that score.

if there are no springs how do the weights return to the middle? not doubting you but simply interested as i will probably having a DMF again :(

Ah I see. So there's really nothing to wear out then as such, just damage if you give it too many beans in high gears.

So, in terms of using the torque, is say booting it in 2nd at circa 1,800 rpm safe....how about 3rd? I'd imagine 4th and deffo 5th / 6th are out on that score.

I'd have to disagree and say the opposite of that to be honest, accelerating in higher gears will cause less stress than lower gears.

I think your all worrying to much to be honest, I've never replaced a flywheel on any of our Skoda's / VW's or Audi's on the cab fleet, and they all get driven hard.

My old pd130 Superb was on 120k when i got rid, and we've quite a few over 200k now as well.

if there are no springs how do the weights return to the middle? not doubting you but simply interested as i will probably having a DMF again :(

I was over simplifying my description really, but thats the easiest way to describe how a DFM works, the VAG DMF doesn't work like that, it effectively has 2 flywheels separated by a rubber cushion that is the 'spring' which is what melts and makes the mess when things go wrong!

ahhhh, makes more sense that

I'd have to disagree and say the opposite of that to be honest, accelerating in higher gears will cause less stress than lower gears.

I think your all worrying to much to be honest, I've never replaced a flywheel on any of our Skoda's / VW's or Audi's on the cab fleet, and they all get driven hard.

My old pd130 Superb was on 120k when i got rid, and we've quite a few over 200k now as well.

I have had one an mk1 octy vrs replaced under warranty just after i bought the car on about 27k

I have had one an mk1 octy vrs replaced under warranty just after i bought the car on about 27k

I thought dual-mass flywheels were only fitted to diesel cars??? :confused: