It's even more of a godsend in a Roomster fitted with an RARB

Haven't driven a Furby with RARB and ESP but my mates Golf GTI will lift-off oversteer in the wet with ESP on. I've experienced it.

The simple solution is not to lift-off :P:rofl:

chris

I think to a certain degree all front-wheel drive cars with a fair old lump under the bonnet WILL suffer from lift-off oversteer to a certain degree. My Punto did, my vRS does, and my current courtesy car of a Mk2 Fabia does to a massive degree.

In theory it should but I wouldn't rely on it in all circumstances. Haven't driven a Furby with RARB and ESP but my mates Golf GTI will lift-off oversteer in the wet with ESP on. I've experienced it.

Thing is it isn't normal conditions that usually catches people out. Oil, diesel, ice, mud on the road along with bumps along with driving too fast usually causes the most problems IMHO.

I agree but the original post was about the handling in the wet,now if the wet catches you out,in this country maybe using he right foot less would be the answer:D

I must be doing something wrong - I've never got CLOSE to the rear letting go, and I've got original worn Michelin's on the back! The ARB has virtually eliminated the understeer though, there's one spot where I used to wash out around 55 in the wet, now it doesn't complain pushing 70! Has really increased my confidence in the handling and I wouldn't describe it as twitchy one bit.

I'm looking forward to getting it on Eibachs to get rid of the body-roll, I suppose that might also make it a little less forgiving.

I think the biggest problem at the moment is it's not just wet/ damp....it's greasy. They've covered the roads in muck (I wont call it salt as it feels more greasy than that) to stop them freezing and it's making grip a real problem.

Small sharp bends are not a problem as you're not going fast enough to lose it in any real fashion, but fast sweeping progressive bends will still be a problem as the back end will gradually break away as you drift sideways.

To be honest though, I think that a lot of this is simply down to not trusting the cars new abilities. The standard handling is that crummy without the bar that when you fit one you don't know how far to push it in all circumstances and have to gradually learn what the car can do. Unless you take it to a handling day of course where you can learn pretty quickly.

i know exactly how far i can push it,i just choose not to on a public road,at cadwell park on the 9th i will be pushing like hell,lift off oversteer on demand,and some giant slaying will be the order of the day i think:thumbup:

I think to a certain degree all front-wheel drive cars with a fair old lump under the bonnet WILL suffer from lift-off oversteer to a certain degree. My Punto did, my vRS does, and my current courtesy car of a Mk2 Fabia does to a massive degree.

But then you have to ask why you are getting lift-off oversteer and it's because you're misjudging your cornering speed and trying to adjust it by removing throttle mid corner once things are going wrong. Get the entry speed right and you can stay on the power through the corner

Chris

But then you have to ask why you are getting lift-off oversteer and it's because you're misjudging your cornering speed and trying to adjust it by removing throttle mid corner once things are going wrong. Get the entry speed right and you can stay on the power through the corner

Chris

:iagree:

This is what nearly caught me out last time. Went in too fast and tried to ease off mid bend when the car started to drift wide. Luckily I kept it on the tarmac and used all of the driveable area in the bend. Once again, it was damp. In the dry the speed I was using would not have been a problem as I've taken the same corner before many many times without issue.

But then you have to ask why you are getting lift-off oversteer and it's because you're misjudging your cornering speed and trying to adjust it by removing throttle mid corner once things are going wrong. Get the entry speed right and you can stay on the power through the corner

Chris

Well yeh thats just it Chris, I'm just finding it so difficult to judge cornering entry speeds. Either I enter too slow, which is a problem because you try and make up speed in the bend which is always bad as it unsettles the car and it just understeers to hell.

Or I come steaming into the bend and all starts off well and good but then you notice the front end starts to creep out and even if you only lift off a tad you can still feel her get all uncomfortable and fidgity and wanting to break away at the back.

Easiest way to judge an entry speed is to use the limit point analysis I may have mentioned to you. Limit point is the furthest into the corner you can see and this is your reference point (ie you have to be able to stop in the distance to the limit point). As you approach the corner the limit point will appear to be stationary so you need to be braking as the distance in which you have to stop is diminishing. At some point in the braking phase, the limit point will appear to move round the corner at the same speed you are approaching and this is where you can come off the brakes (grab a gear if necessary) and hold that speed on the throttle. Just before the apex of the corner, the limit point will start to move rapidly away from you and this is the point where you can start to "chase" it and really get on the power.

Takes some practice, but you'll find that you enter slower but you carry a lot more speed through and out of the corner and the car remains much more stable.

Also worth noting that you can power through corners if your entry speed is too slow, but you need to make sure the tyres have grip before booting it or you will end up asking too much of them and understeering. You can do this by minimising the amount of steering you do which maximises the available grip

Hope that makes some sense - give me a shout if you want to run through it in practice....

Chris

Yeah I was lifting off. Mite try it on full chat one day

hope you don't have the michalin ditchfinders on:D

I set my Whiteline Rear ARB to its stiffest setting the other day, unfortunetely its made the car too skitish for my liking in these wet conditions. Its fine on roundabouts and low speed corners, but high speed doesn't feel as nice as it did on the medium setting. So i'll be going back to that for the remainder of the winter me thinks

Just before the apex of the corner, the limit point will start to move rapidly away from you and this is the point where you can start to "chase" it and really get on the power.

...Only to find there's a tractor 50 yards up the road! Has happened a couple of times on the lanes near me - was perfectly able to stop in time but certainly tested the brakes!

it doesn't matter where anything is if you use the method chris describes as you can always stop in the distance you can see.

...Only to find there's a tractor 50 yards up the road! Has happened a couple of times on the lanes near me - was perfectly able to stop in time but certainly tested the brakes!

I'll quote myself shall I? "Was perfectly able to stop".

"Able" isn't the same as "ready" though.

I set my Whiteline Rear ARB to its stiffest setting the other day, unfortunetely its made the car too skitish for my liking in these wet conditions. Its fine on roundabouts and low speed corners, but high speed doesn't feel as nice as it did on the medium setting. So i'll be going back to that for the remainder of the winter me thinks

Really? On the stiffest setting mine feels ideal. Any slacker and it wouldn't be quite right IMO. Fast B road blasts are a totally different ball game now. The car seems to stick the road like glue now, feeling less 'floaty'. Great fun, but as per the entire of this thread, you have to know its limits. The rear end of the car is now very eager to come and greet you compared to before where it was just soggy understeer.

It's odd, because you have to be going at quite a pace for the RARB to have any real effect I've found. Normal tootling about doesn't feel any different - you take sharp bends and it still feels quite nose heavy. But, speed up and throw it into the bend and the car seems to 'come alive' for want of a better phrase. It is this that makes it a bit hairy in the wet IMO. You end up 'pushing' the car to get that RARB feel only for it to arrive a little earlier than expected due to the reduced traction. Still very impressed with it though.

(Went round and tightened all the RARB bolts and clamps up yesterday too whilst fitting new front ARB bushes - some of them needed it as it's been on for a couple of weeks so will have settled in).

It must be lift off oversteer...

The standard fabia setup will break away very quickly at the limit, the RARB equipped Fabia is progressive, predicatble and FUN!!!

I'd get booked onto a handling day mate

What he said ^^^^

Ive had mine on seemingly forever now, and the only time the rear breaks away is if i want it to. I would also suggest a handling day/driving course of some sort. As also said, if you are lifting off, which will provoke rear movement, then you are going to fast/not reading the road ahead in the first place.