You know what they say about opinions Chris.

I'd agree that the Octy has a damping problem, but it's underdamping on high speed bumps [a sort I've never met down your way (roll on having enough for FSDs)], rather than low speed crashing and pattering.

I can identify plenty of pieces of roads that cause an elegance MK I octy problems.

I'd also agree that the MK I VRS Octy is crashy on the standard suspension.

Never been in a vRS.

Would you agree with me that the Elegance suffers more from high speed underdamping than low speed crashiness?

I'd also agree that the MK I VRS Octy is crashy on the standard suspension.

I found the Fabia vRS to be the same and I'm impressed how much better my Focus is given it has bigger wheels and it's lower.

To the OP: Purely on looks I'd get the Mondeo.

Never been in a vRS.

Would you agree with me that the Elegance suffers more from high speed underdamping than low speed crashiness?

Yes the Elegance suspension is far too soft to the point that it could allow very rapid weight transfer onto the front wheels and a general lack of stability.

For a MK I I would definitely suggest aftermarket uprated springs and dampers.

If you can't afford FSD then Eibach do a set of dampers I believe.

When the skoda diesel goes wrong it's expensive to repair, everything can and will go wrong on the engine, the DMF and sometimes even the fuel system.

I know of one that has spent loads of time in the main dealer with loads of parts replaced many times. The dealer has had others that have been unfixable and even after the techs have been sent down from on high to look nothing has worked.

I don't know how good the mondeo is reliabilty wise, but I would rather have one of them than a Skoda.

Sorry Rick, but I can say the same as you have about the Octy.

I'd also trust a bosch common rail system bolted into a PSA engine over a VAG PD engine when the PD is being phased out, is noisy as hell relative to the CR and IDI engines. The PD170 has peizo injectors too so I'm not sure I would trust that.

That plus the awful problems with DMFs on the car doesn't bode well.

.

its Delphi on the Mondeo and its sh1te , oh and we do DMFs all the time too

the Ford bods had me doing more tests today on the one i can't fix :(

one section of Fords says fit injectors , someone from another section , although in the same room as the first person , says no don't fit injectors , :confused:

its Delphi on the Mondeo and its sh1te , oh and we do DMFs all the time too

the Ford bods had me doing more tests today on the one i can't fix :(

one section of Fords says fit injectors , someone from another section , although in the same room as the first person , says no don't fit injectors , :confused:

I've had the same pain with Skoda.

Think they all have problems, but I have had almost no problems with a focus.

Win some you lose some, but lets just say you are in a position to see the bad ones.

Fair point about the 2.2 being a Dagenham design rather than PSA one though.

Personally haven't experienced the newer PD engines, but my PD130 sounded like a bag of rusty spanners all the time. Never had a serious problem in all it's like (1 dead battery and 1 blown vnt tube thing). NVH was off the charts though compared to the Mondeo and Vectra taxi's and fleet cars I've experienced.

No doubt I'll be burnt alive by a rabid horde of Fabia vRS drivers for maligning the engine..:sofahide:

I own a Fabia VRS and I agree with you. lt has been extremely reliable and very economical but the engine is very rattly for a modern Diesel and the latter 2.0 TDI 16 valver is very little improvement.

I think I would go for the Octavia VRS over the Ford though. The engine according to my dealer is fine, only giving problems if the car is crawled around town. You must be getting the engine warm and hitting 4500 rpm several times a week. VW even warn in their Golf brochure not to specify a DPF if you do town driving. The PD system is a worry though if it needs to be replaced but certainly the old Fabia 130PD is a very well proven engine with few problems. Don't know about the Piezo version but I would reckon it to be a more reliable engine than the Ford.

My brother in law is a Ford tech and he recommends that people avoid Ford Diesels like the plague as he says that there is always one in the garage on a given day with a serious problem. He says they are a nighmare in short. He says that Ford Petrols are more reliable. He said go for the 3.0 V6 ST. It will be cheaper to buy and you will have a 155 mph 220 bhp car. He cetainly told my sister to get a 1.6 Focus with a Yamaha developed engne rather than the 1.8 Diesel, even though that car lured with its strong performance. He was right as it is on a 53 plate and has been flawless.

I own a Fabia VRS and I agree with you. lt has been extremely reliable and very economical but the engine is very rattly for a modern Diesel and the latter 2.0 TDI 16 valver is very little improvement.

I think I would go for the Octavia VRS over the Ford though. The engine according to my dealer is fine, only giving problems if the car is crawled around town. You must be getting the engine warm and hitting 4500 rpm several times a week. VW even warn in their Golf brochure not to specify a DPF if you do town driving. The PD system is a worry though if it needs to be replaced but certainly the old Fabia 130PD is a very well proven engine with few problems. Don't know about the Piezo version but I would reckon it to be a more reliable engine than the Ford.

My brother in law is a Ford tech and he recommends that people avoid Ford Diesels like the plague as he says that there is always one in the garage on a given day with a serious problem. He says they are a nighmare in short. He says that Ford Petrols are more reliable. He said go for the 3.0 V6 ST. It will be cheaper to buy and you will have a 155 mph 220 bhp car. He cetainly told my sister to get a 1.6 Focus with a Yamaha developed engne rather than the 1.8 Diesel, even though that car lured with its strong performance. He was right as it is on a 53 plate and has been flawless.

The new ford engines are made by PSA.

PSA made the XUD engine that was good enough to find it's way into pugs, citroens (PSA cars) rovers, BMWs and many other cars.

The HDI/TDCI is an extremely good engine IMHO and is being used by a lot of people again.

Any motor mechanic would say the same I would think as a ford tech will see buggered fords by the bucket load and a skoda tech will see broken skodas.

The old ford endura engine was totally sh*te for refinement, power etc. The TDDI was not great either. The TDCI (Degenham versions) are much better and the PSA sourced TDCI/HDI are even better again.

Would a 2007 TDCI Mondeo ST have the PSA sourced engine ?

The generally held opinion on all the motoring forums I frequent is that the Ford TDCI is to be avoided!

There appear to be some that go well, and an awful lot that don't.

There appear to be some that go well, and an awful lot that don't.

The key words being "there appear to be". You have to look at the sheer numbers that are on the road to realise just how small the percentage of problematic cars is and the reliability rating that Warranty Direct give the cars would surely reflect how much they expected it to go wrong? IIRC, the 2.2 doesn't suffer the same problems the early 2.0 TDCI allegedly suffered with injectors. It's like saying that you read on here that loads of Fabia vRS's are blowing their turbos therefore the PD130 is to be avoided.

Chris

The TDCI (Degenham versions) are much better and the PSA sourced TDCI/HDI are even better again.

Just a shame they didn't stick with a timing chain as having a cambelt pushes the servicing costs up again :(

Chris

The PSA HDi units have better installations in PSA cars though. Again based on direct comparison (Mondeo vs 407) on the exact same roads.

The PSA HDi units have better installations in PSA cars though. Again based on direct comparison (Mondeo vs 407) on the exact same roads.

The last shaped Mondeo does not use the PSA unit!!!!!!!!

Chris

Go drive both and see which you prefer. I'd take the Mondeo every time because I find the seats more comfortable and supportive, it's more fun to drive and is better equipped (and also DPF-less!). I wouldn't worry about reliability on the Ford either as they seem to do consistently better than their German counterparts in reliability surveys and my experience certainly bears that out Also factor in Ford parts and servicing is dirt cheap and there is no cambelt to change.

However, the Mondeo is likely to depreciate faster, although saying that the ST seems to doing well as there is no new replacement for it, and they are a more common sight on the roads....

Chris

What he said!

when the Mondeo diesel goes wrong , it is expensive to repair , everything can and will go wrong on that engine and fuel system

i've got one in the workshop at the moment which is currently unfixable , awaiting the Ford engineer to come out

don't know how good the Skoda is reliability wise , but i would rather have one than the Mondeo

As has een said, if you work at a Ford garage, can you not expect to be working on Fords with problems???:confused:

In the same way as if you worked in a Skoda garage you'd be working on broken Skodas all day:rolleyes:

I don't agree with you on the ride, Ken. The Octy is far harsher, especially on the fun back roads where it's damping feels far less capable of soaking up bumps in the road. I'm also not sure it corners as well, but that's more subjective than scientific

Chris

Again, what he said.

The Mondeo is a far superior handling vehicle, much comfier (no stupid german style hard seats) and the interior is much better quality too, I can prove this to anyone by showing them the interiors of both a Skoda and a Ford of the same age and mileage that have been used as a taxi, the Ford wears much better. everything in the Skoda starts peeling/getting scratched and looking scabby.

My experience of Ford vs Skoda reliability also shows the Ford to be ahead by quite some margin, and I own alot of cars so it's not just based on one individual experience of a particular car.

The Skoda is faster however, but not by as much as you'd think, it's extra 15bhp is almost negated by it's extra weight, plus the Ford puts down it's power better and gets round the corners much more confidently.

At the end of the day though, all cars have their problems, drive both and see what you prefer, I'm guessing your the same guy who asked the same question on ST Drivers? it seems strange that on the Skoda forum, alot of people are saying get the Mondeo, yet on the Mondeo forum, no one says get the Skoda!

diesel engines in the new Mondeo

1.6 PSA unit from the Focus

2.0 PSA unit from the Focus

1.8 Endura from the original Focus

plus there is talk of putting the Volvo D5 engine in

So what's the design origins of the various derv units on 54-07 plated tdci's?

So what's the design origins of the various derv units on 54-07 plated tdci's?

Probably going back to the 1.8D i had in my Fiesta van

funny.

I meant which are ford specific, which are psa derived etc.....

Engine in my ST is derived of a Transit van engine! no really!

The new Mondeo ST (when it eventually arrives) will be powered by the PSA twin turbo 2.2 diesel engine, this car already exists for testing purposes, I have a friend who works for ford technical and is currently trying to get hold of the keys so he can report how good it is (or not).

I dont have any info on petrol version though it is rumoured to be either a 3.2V6 (I think) or the Volvo 5 cylinder as fitted to the Focus, but with a bit more poke.

The 2.0 TDDI, 2.0 TDCI and 2.2 TDCI used in the last shape Mondeo are Ford-derived and driven by a cam-chain. There was a change over from Euro III to Euro IV (or should that be IIII? ) in 2005 IIRC. The Focus uses the PSA-derived engine which uses a cambelt.

Chris

or the Volvo 5 cylinder as fitted to the Focus, but with a bit more poke.

5 cylinder Volvo petrol engine out of the Focus ST is already available in the Mondeo , bit more room around it to work on it , although it seems pretty reliable in the Focus

It sounds nice as well

The new ford engines are made by PSA.

PSA made the XUD engine that was good enough to find it's way into pugs, citroens (PSA cars) rovers, BMWs and many other cars.

The HDI/TDCI is an extremely good engine IMHO and is being used by a lot of people again.

Any motor mechanic would say the same I would think as a ford tech will see buggered fords by the bucket load and a skoda tech will see broken skodas.

The old ford endura engine was totally sh*te for refinement, power etc. The TDDI was not great either. The TDCI (Degenham versions) are much better and the PSA sourced TDCI/HDI are even better again.[/quote

Yeah I agree that the techs complain but the observation I have got from my relative is that the Ford Derv engines cause more trouble than the petrol ones.

diesel engines in the new Mondeo

1.6 PSA unit from the Focus

2.0 PSA unit from the Focus

1.8 Endura from the original Focus

plus there is talk of putting the Volvo D5 engine in

By Endura do you mean the Endura, or the TDDI or the Dagenham desugned TDCI.

I assume you mean the latter.