I think the dim-dip system they had over here a few years ago was an excellent idea. You put your sidelights on as parking lights and when you start the engine, the dipped headlights come on at 50% intensity. It made cars a lot easier to see at night even if the driver had forgotten to put their dipped headlights on. I'm not sure why they canned the idea though.

I didn't think it was 50% more 5 or 15%, not that it matters, but I also don't know if they have canned it. Maybe it is still the case but the if a car has EU type approval then we have to let it run.

Xenon equipped cars would fall foul of that rule.

I tend to use them at twilight when I want the rear lights on to be seen a bit better, but it's not dark enough to warrant headlamps yet. Ditto driving into the setting sun (a common problem coming home along the M4 for me) again not requiring headlamps because rearward visibility is perfect. Driving into dazzling fog is another example - sidelights + foglights.

Ditto - I use sidelights when I want to be 'seen', but don't need the headlights to 'see'. It's more to have the rears on than anything from the front. When it's ****ing down for example.

And the point of foglights is the greater angle between them and your eyes which reduces glare, hence running sidelights and foglights will allow you to see further in REALLY thick fog than dipped (or god forbid full beam) headlights. In theory at least. It's one of the problems with helmet mounted lights that with the light so close to the plane of your eyes any reflected light comes straight back and blinds you.

I think the dim-dip system they had over here a few years ago was an excellent idea. You put your sidelights on as parking lights and when you start the engine, the dipped headlights come on at 50% intensity. It made cars a lot easier to see at night even if the driver had forgotten to put their dipped headlights on. I'm not sure why they canned the idea though.

Yeah, I always thought dim-dips were very useful - not too much and not too little - but probably wouldn't work with the Xenons. Anyway, it's the LED running lights that are all the rage now! I've found the Xenons so good at 'punching through' that I've never really needed to use the fog lights. I also don't like the way the switch is configured so that you need the front fogs on before the rear fog. Plenty of situations where dipped beam at the front will have been absolutely fine but the rear fog will have been useful/safer. But let's not me get started on the fine people who put the rear one on unnecessarily and/or forget it about it when the vis lifts !

the sides on the octy are more like chocolate teapots to be honest, on other cars they were ideal in the bit before lighting up just to illuminate your car abit without looking odd with the headlights on (my last car was white). it also had a dash that was always lit too, this caught me out a few times when i first got the car too.

These days i will have my lights on on the motorway and when conditions are not great, even if they wouldnt normally warrent sides (dark car wanna make sure im not missed lol).

I think it should be law that some kind of lighting would have to be shown on the car and introduced as part of the mot (to pass would be to have this enabled on your car).

Not a fan of the boy racers with fogs on, but the only time the fogs and side lights combo came into use was a month ago when i drove 10 miles home and couldnt see a few feet in front of the car. id probably been better of walking and yet i had even caught up another car that i didnt realise was ahead of me till i was nearly on top of them.

Nothing wrong with this IMHO when it is fogy.

In some cars the headlight level and design means that the light beam bounces back from the fog, thus dazzling the driver. As fog lights are lower, the light doesnt get reflected back to your eye level. I will sometimes drive in fog like this as you can get better visibility without headlights on.

Same goes in heavy snowfall.

Steve

exactly....tbh this whole thread seems daft to me! :confused:

Nothing wrong with this IMHO when it is fogy.

In some cars the headlight level and design means that the light beam bounces back from the fog, thus dazzling the driver. As fog lights are lower, the light doesnt get reflected back to your eye level. I will sometimes drive in fog like this as you can get better visibility without headlights on.

Same goes in heavy snowfall.

Steve

Thats why they are called fog lights......

If they cant see a tonne and a half car then 2x 5w bulbs ain't going to help them either.

I disagree. People are unlikely to see a dark grey car out of the corner of their eyes, but if you stick a couple of lights on it, it might just crucially catch their attention.

I disagree. People are unlikely to see a dark grey car out of the corner of their eyes, but if you stick a couple of lights on it, it might just crucially catch their attention.

A similar debate (about daylight running lights) came up on another forum and it seems there are some interesting opinions!

DaDRL UK The Association of Drivers against Daytime Running Lights

Daytime Running Lights: The Studies

I'm not really sold on either argument aside from the fact if they were mandatory I might wear out my bulbs quicker and have to get my hands dirty more often

Chris

People are unlikely to see a dark grey car out of the corner of their eyes, but if you stick a couple of lights on it, it might just crucially catch their attention.

So if they have failed to see you and you are close enough for it to be a problem then they are driving with undue care and attention. In that case they should not be on the road.

So if they have failed to see you and you are close enough for it to be a problem then they are driving with undue care and attention. In that case they should not be on the road.

Very true. Unfortunately, there are plenty of the f*ckers about.

The only times I have used my sidelights is if I want my front foglights on during daytime or if im stuck behind someone in traffic and don't want to dazzle the driver in front.

**My front foglights aren't as bright as some cars so they don't blind drivers

Side lights are called parking lights in most countries for a reason - that's what they are for. Extreme, and I mean extreme, fog that requires fog lights and is so reflective that dipped beam is blinding would be the only exception where I'd even consider turning off my dipped beam.

I drive with dipped beam on unless I forget or I am really going a short distance in daylight conditions. Anything motorway and they're on. Guess that's why Xenons are a good choice for me

I think the dim-dip system they had over here a few years ago was an excellent idea. You put your sidelights on as parking lights and when you start the engine, the dipped headlights come on at 50% intensity. It made cars a lot easier to see at night even if the driver had forgotten to put their dipped headlights on. I'm not sure why they canned the idea though.

I'm a newbie here and found this thread very imformative. However, your signature about Carol "wanna borrow some money?" Vorderman was/is hilarious!!!

Nice one matey!

I live on a typically congested suburban street, that is relatively busy with cars at up to 45 MPH (ish). When residents pull out of their driveways at night, from in-between parked cars/vans, cars running with only sidelights are totally invisible until you pull out in front of them. Even most cycle lights are brighter. In short, in my 30 MPH street lit environment, side lights are dangerous. You either don't need your lights, or you do. If you need them, put the them on properly.

I won't even start on those who use no lights at all.

A similar debate (about daylight running lights) came up on another forum and it seems there are some interesting opinions!

DaDRL UK The Association of Drivers against Daytime Running Lights

Daytime Running Lights: The Studies

I'm not really sold on either argument aside from the fact if they were mandatory I might wear out my bulbs quicker and have to get my hands dirty more often

Chris

Have to agree with Chris except that i think The Association of Drivers Against Daytime Running Lights should be called the Association of Drivers who obviously have far to much time on their hands.

I use my side lights when it's starting to get dark but isn't dark enough for full lights yet but that's about it.

Hello All,

I was pondering last night why cars have side lights. I never use mine - if it is dark enough for side lights, it is dark enough for dipped beam in my opinion.

I ride a motorcycle in and out of London every day, and the number of cars you see when it is totally dark that think side lights are appropriate is amazing. You know the sort of thing, beat up old Nissan Primera cruising along with one side light working, the other off etc etc. If cars were changed so that the only option you had was dipped or full beam, this problem would go away. It might also get rid of the other one - people driving around on side-lights, but with fog lights on...

So.. what are side lights for and when should they be used?

Cheers,

Stu

You've already answered this. When you actually need front foglights, you want a minimum of other illumination. When you're parking on unlit roads. When you're in a first gear traffic crawl they're all you need...

My 2p's worth:

IMHO, get rid of sidelights altogether and have parking lights which only work when the ignition is turned off and the headlight switch put into a specific position. Dipped headlights should be wired up through the ignition as per Swedish-built Volvo's and are on all the time the engine is running. Forget about the negligible fuel increase and the green Nazi's brigades spurious arguments about increased 'carbon footprint', from a safety perspective this is a sensible solution which I fully agree with.

Right, feel free to flame me!

Hello All,

I was pondering last night why cars have side lights. I never use mine - if it is dark enough for side lights, it is dark enough for dipped beam in my opinion.

Cheers,

Stu

They are pointless, except when stationary.

My 2p's worth:

IMHO, get rid of sidelights altogether and have parking lights which only work when the ignition is turned off and the headlight switch put into a specific position. Dipped headlights should be wired up through the ignition as per Swedish-built Volvo's and are on all the time the engine is running. Forget about the negligible fuel increase and the green Nazi's brigades spurious arguments about increased 'carbon footprint', from a safety perspective this is a sensible solution which I fully agree with.

Right, feel free to flame me!

No way: you are right.

My 2p's worth:

IMHO, get rid of sidelights altogether and have parking lights which only work when the ignition is turned off and the headlight switch put into a specific position. Dipped headlights should be wired up through the ignition as per Swedish-built Volvo's and are on all the time the engine is running. Forget about the negligible fuel increase and the green Nazi's brigades spurious arguments about increased 'carbon footprint', from a safety perspective this is a sensible solution which I fully agree with.

Right, feel free to flame me!

Ok.

Too much artificial light for the conditions is every bit as bad as too little. In some ways more so, because it gives you a false sense of security that you've "done something to make yourself safer and more visible" when you haven't. Quite the reverse if you've made it harder for other people to judge your speed and distance, see your indicators and/or brake lights...

Even "day running lights" only make sense when they're separate from the headlights, and offer a wider field of view.

When you actually need front foglights, you want a minimum of other illumination. When you're parking on unlit roads. When you're in a first gear traffic crawl they're all you need...

Oooh. Yes, you're right, but I'd say for the crawl, hopefully it will speed up shortly afterwards, so you might as well use dipped headlights when moving.

Mind you, fog thick enough for fog lamps with no dipped headlights is unusual: as fog lamps don't project far they're only any good at *very* low speed.

Oooh. Yes, you're right, but I'd say for the crawl, hopefully it will speed up shortly afterwards, so you might as well use dipped headlights when moving.

Some advanced driving techniques would differ, arguing that you're unnecessarily dazzling the guy you're following.

Mind you, fog thick enough for fog lamps with no dipped headlights is unusual: as fog lamps don't project far they're only any good at *very* low speed.

True, but in those conditions fogs + sides make a real positive difference to how far you can see. They're also the dog's proverbials in nighttime falling snow, when the effect is more to reduce eyestrain than enhance visual range.

Further to my previous post, this is also a valid reason for the argument in favour of dim-dip headlights.

Further to my previous post, this is also a valid reason for the argument in favour of dim-dip headlights.

There was never a valid argument for Dim-Dip headlights. That's why they're not mandatory, not installed on new cars (for once the EU got something right), and not part of the MoT test even when fitted.