Snow chains

[Anthony 1]

The size that apeals to me is 215/60R16 and according to Roofbox these chains will fit. As will these and these spikes and these chains and so will these chains.

Let us hope that they are right and have done their sums and trials properly!

Oh all the above have video as well.

Edited 19 February, 2010 by Anthony 1

[Y4YETI]

Thanks everybody.

For myself and others without a technical background does this thread so far for the Elegance trim:-

1. Establish that Skoda have not provided the best all round tyre and wheel combination
   
2. Establish the vehicle manual does not set out the current full options available
   
3. indicate that purchasers of this Yeti trim must incur unexpected additional expense to enable fitting of snow chains to comply with European legislation and this extra cost is associated with poor vehicle design or the failure to provide correct tyre and wheel combinations
   
4. Vehicle owners need documentation from Skoda (and not third parties) to support any deviation from the manual as this might affect warrantee claims (especially if snow chains or spikes are fitted other than to the front wheels and to tyres and wheels set out in the Skoda manual)
   

Edited 20 February, 2010 by Y4YETI

[Lady Penelope]

Snow chain Requiremnt

My link

My link

Their is in fact a Compulsory Sign for Snow Chains German "snow chains compulsory" sign.

Tyre company reference to where chains re compulsory and winter tyres with and without spikes

My link

My link

I am sorry I have not found any government web sites for the relevant countries and wikipipedia is strangely quiet about anything to do with snow chains. I have seen various references on the links above to being fined in some places if snow chains are not carried or are not used when requested. In some countries the police can force drivers to use them if they think that the conditions warrant it.

I have no idea if snow chains are use less frequently or more frequently in GB than at any other time but that would be besides the point. Just stand inside any supermarket or motorway toilet and see the number of men who do not wash their hand even after doing a No.2 disgusting as that is, yet I am sure no one here is calling for an end hand washing facilities at these places. ( What have I admitted to. I cringe waiting for the comments )

Even winter tyres can struggle for grip in some situations like ice. I have used chains and they just go on gripping even at very severe angles of incline and off road in these conditions also.

In some countries winter tyres all but translates into studded tyres as this is what motorist there fit, we just hear winter tyres but it needs to be differentiated.

It would seem that a large number of our continental neighbours insist on winter tyres being a compulsory fit, varying from start month to end month of use by country.

Therefore if you are going to be driving in these countries you will need to change to winter tyres anyway.

Snowchains appear to be an additional requirment in certain countries under certain conditions and if Skoda recomend a 16" winter tyre for use on Elegance then most snowchains appear to able to be installed to them! So no problem

In this country generally we don't get that much snow, from Midlands south anyway, but our temps between Nov to March do average below the level that is safe for summer /normal tyres to have good grip/control.

After researching this we, my other half and me!, have concluded that for we will have a set of 16" wheels with winter tyres and put them on end sept ish and change back to 17" wheels with summer tyres beginng of April ish.

And because we will have the 16" tyres on when the snow is about

- unless we are about to go into another mini ice age! and snow happens May to August!,

then we can fit most makes of snow chains to our winter wheels and tyres when and if we need to. :clap:

[The Plumber]

It would seem that a large number of our continental neighbours insist on winter tyres being a compulsory fit, varying from start month to end month of use by country.

Therefore if you are going to be driving in these countries you will need to change to winter tyres anyway.

Snowchains appear to be an additional requirment in certain countries under certain conditions and if Skoda recomend a 16" winter tyre for use on Elegance then most snowchains appear to able to be installed to them! So no problem

In this country generally we don't get that much snow, from Midlands south anyway, but our temps between Nov to March do average below the level that is safe for summer /normal tyres to have good grip/control.

After researching this we, my other half and me!, have concluded that for we will have a set of 16" wheels with winter tyres and put them on end sept ish and change back to 17" wheels with summer tyres beginng of April ish.

And because we will have the 16" tyres on when the snow is about

- unless we are about to go into another mini ice age! and snow happens May to August!,

then we can fit most makes of snow chains to our winter wheels and tyres when and if we need to. :clap:

Top answer, although I think November to end of March for winter's, for me anyway (unless visiting the Alps then end of April ).

In a perfect world I would have liked to see Skoda specify 4 season tyres for the Monster, which for the UK anyway may have worked throughout the year (depending on where you live). This would also be more in keeping with it's Crossover design and I am sure it would not take much for them to ask Goodyear to send Vector 4 Seasons (Yeti) as well as Excellence (Superb) to Kvasiny :yes:

Regards,

TP

[Anthony 1]

Thanks everybody.

For myself and others without a technical background does this thread so far for the Elegance trim:-

1. Establish that Skoda have not provided the best all round tyre and wheel combination
   
2. Establish the vehicle manual does not set out the current full options available
   
3. indicate that purchasers of this Yeti trim must incur unexpected additional expense to enable fitting of snow chains to comply with European legislation and this extra cost is associated with poor vehicle design or the failure to provide correct tyre and wheel combinations
   
4. Vehicle owners need documentation from Skoda (and not third parties) to support any deviation from the manual as this might affect warrantee claims (especially if snow chains or spikes are fitted other than to the front wheels and to tyres and wheels set out in the Skoda manual)
   

I would agree with your summary. Armed with the details you might somehow be able to force Skoda UK possibly under EU Law, to make some amendments at least to have appropriate equipment wheels etc available as a no cost option on purchase. Good luck to you. I only wish that I had the energy or legal know how. I think certainly that adverse publicity like this placed with the media might also cause some changes. Perhaps, the, Guardian, Telegraph and Times might be a good start followed by the motoring Magazines, Motoring Lobby, MP, MEP, dpt Transport. I am sure that Skoda are not the only offenders, manufacturers have the ability to make vehicles comply with all EU legislation without the car owner having to resort to additional expense just to comply with the Laws of member states that they may whish to travel through either for business purposes or leisure. In effect it could be argued that vehicles are being supplied unfit for purpose.

Unfortunately knowing how much lethargy and inertia is within the system I doubt that anything would happen very quickly even if there was a proven case. That does not mean that someone should not start the ball rolling in the right direction. One never knows where it may end up.

Are you saying that Skoda state that Snow Chains can not be fitted to the rear of the Yeti?

Edited 20 February, 2010 by Anthony 1

[Anthony 1]

Top answer, although I think November to end of March for winter's, for me anyway (unless visiting the Alps then end of April ).

In a perfect world I would have liked to see Skoda specify 4 season tyres for the Monster, which for the UK anyway may have worked throughout the year (depending on where you live). This would also be more in keeping with it's Crossover design and I am sure it would not take much for them to ask Goodyear to send Vector 4 Seasons (Yeti) as well as Excellence (Superb) to Kvasiny :yes:

Regards,

TP

I would like to se the Yeti provided with the appropriate wheels & tyres at least as a no cost option on purchase to enable one to travel throughout the EU for what ever reason business or leisure without additional personal expense in order to comply with legislation. Though it could be argued that most if not all of the chains that I posted in the link above will fit the 170/140 elegance with 225/50R17 also as will most winter tyres.

[Y4YETI]

<snip>

Are you saying that Skoda state that Snow Chains can not be fitted to the rear of the Yeti?

YES!!!

See my post starting this thread

Page 237 of the Skoda Yeti Manual states it is only permissable to fit snow chains with links and locks not larger than 12mm to only three wheel/tyre combinations:-

61 x 16 50mm 205/55

71 x 16 45mm 205/55

61 x 17 45mm 205/50

Snow chains must only be mounted on the front wheels.

The manual states that you must remove the full wheel trims if you wish to fit snow chains to the wheels.

Edited 20 February, 2010 by Y4YETI

[Anthony 1]

YES!!!

See my post starting this thread

In that case, with the chains not going on the rear I wonder even if any of the chains in the links that I provided will fit the rear with any size of wheel? Pathetic, that any manufacturer could bring a new vehicle out into the market place with this deficiency built in. That is even more the case, when one considers the type of vehicle and the purpose and lifestyle for which the Yeti has been projected. So, I wonder if wheel spacers would allow chains fit to the rear. Come to think about it, many hatch designs are very tight between the wheel and the inner bulkhead at the back of the car. This is where I suspect the problem might be, as the top clearance appears OK on images especially as the Yeti has very limited rear wheel travel.

[The Plumber]

The original 05.09 owners manual (which electronically I lost due to a puter crash ) states chains for the front only. The current 11.09 changes this to both but depending on how you read it you might be looking at one size of tyres on the front and another on the rear :wonder: Think their translator or Tech writer needs to revisit :yes:

TP

[Y4YETI]

The original 05.09 owners manual (which electronically I lost due to a puter crash ) states chains for the front only. The current 11.09 changes this to both but depending on how you read it you might be looking at one size of tyres on the front and another on the rear :wonder: Think their translator or Tech writer needs to revisit :yes:

TP

I quoted from the hard manual supplied with a vehicle delivered on 4th February 2010.

"Yeti anglicky 05.09"

This is a 280 page manual - surely Skoda do not expect customers to read this and then cross check for updates on the internet?

Many customers would not know where to look for such updates through Skoda but I suspect I will be able to find version 11.09 here on Briskoda

If there are key changes to safety and other important matters the average customer would expect these to be provided in the form of an update document with clear headings and page references to the current hard copy manual.

Edited 20 February, 2010 by Y4YETI

[Anthony 1]

I’m just thinking, that if it is the rear inside bulkhead that would comes into contact with normal chains. Most chains even when tight flop about a fair bit as the tyres rotate and the shape of the tyre changes at each segment as it passes over the ground. This why chains often need tightening over a period of use because of the constant flexing tightening up and loosening action, changes in tension in other words. I hope that the alternative quick fit type chains that I posted will still fit the rear. They only cling to the Top and outer surface of the tyre and not on the inside a tall only fixing at the outside hub. Possibly their will be no interference.

[mhjonesuk]

In the Yeti catalogue Skoda list Flash alloy wheels 6j 17" for use with snow chains as a retailer supplied accessory part number CCX800003 at £153 including vat. Hope this helps

[Llanigraham]

Thanks everybody.

For myself and others without a technical background does this thread so far for the Elegance trim:-

I think you might be surprised how many tecnical people there are here!

Establish that Skoda have not provided the best all round tyre and wheel combination

I bet that for 99% of owners of Yeti's the tyres are perfect. The only people who are querying suitablity are those who want 4x4's and know they are going to use them off-road severely. Most owneres will not do this.

Establish the vehicle manual does not set out the current full options available

Any vehicle manual is an advisory document, that "may" contain specifications. Everyone I have seen has a getout clause somewhere in it that says something like "subject to market and availability". That is all they have to do. And to who ever asked, yes they do expect you to read all 250+ pages. It is for your own benefit to do so!

indicate that purchasers of this Yeti trim must incur unexpected additional expense to enable fitting of snow chains to comply with European legislation and this extra cost is associated with poor vehicle design or the failure to provide correct tyre and wheel combinations

But they already note that a seperate tyre and wheel combination is recommended for chains, so therefore this is already being done, and again 99% of owners won't be interested in the slightest.

Vehicle owners need documentation from Skoda (and not third parties) to support any deviation from the manual as this might affect warrantee claims (especially if snow chains or spikes are fitted other than to the front wheels and to tyres and wheels set out in the Skoda manual)

As in all cases it is up to the owner to find these things out once they buy a vehicle. Do you really expect every manufacturer to write to every owner if they change something in the spec of a vehicle? They are only required to do that by VOSA if the change is of URGENT SAFETY needs

[Lady Penelope]

I think you might be surprised how many tecnical people there are here!

I bet that for 99% of owners of Yeti's the tyres are perfect. The only people who are querying suitablity are those who want 4x4's and know they are going to use them off-road severely. Most owneres will not do this.

Any vehicle manual is an advisory document, that "may" contain specifications. Everyone I have seen has a getout clause somewhere in it that says something like "subject to market and availability". That is all they have to do. And to who ever asked, yes they do expect you to read all 250+ pages. It is for your own benefit to do so!

But they already note that a seperate tyre and wheel combination is recommended for chains, so therefore this is already being done, and again 99% of owners won't be interested in the slightest.

As in all cases it is up to the owner to find these things out once they buy a vehicle. Do you really expect every manufacturer to write to every owner if they change something in the spec of a vehicle? They are only required to do that by VOSA if the change is of URGENT SAFETY needs

:clap: Well said! Total agreement from me!

[aerofurb]

Is it against EU law to have a boot too small to be 'fit for the purpose' for some people as well? Don't mean to sound flippant but just because the Yeti has 4x4 drive as an option doesn't mean it is the ultimate in hill climbers.

Okay it may, if you can be bothered to chase it, perhaps be against EU law but are you saying that Porsches, Lambos and Ferraris etc can all be fitted with snow chains? They are cars too, just like the Yeti.

Surely we are losing sight of reality here. What percentage of car owners in the UK actually owned (or even considered owning) a set of winter tyres or snow chains before mid December 2009?

Bit like the boot really - if the Yeti doesn't suit your needs, then go buy something that does.

[Anthony 1]

I do not know if it contravenes EU law but it may be a case of not being fit for purpose no matter what car is incapable of fitting snow chains. It matters not how many people actually might use them in GB, it is about ensuring a vehicle might be capable of being road legal throughout the EU and that someone by no fault of their own could transgress the Law in an other member state through fault of a manufacturers deficient design. Quite possibly their may be all sorts of loop holes that manufacturers can use to negate their responsibilities but unless a fuss is made and a stance taken it is just the thin end of the wedge. On top of that he advertising push makes it plain that this vehicle is about life style and has greater capabilities than most ordinary cars. The manufacturers now that people will be attracted to this vehicle because of that, yet it has a deficiency in design and fitment that prevents it from legally driving in some part of the EU without unreasonable modification taken at the drivers own expense.

[simonsheil]

It si the drivers reponsibilty to ensure they are within the law.

The yeti will have european type approval and be legal in the Europe. If you choose to take your car into an area that requires snow chains it is your responsibility to ensure the car is suitable.

There are many cars on the market that will not take snow chains on stock wheels, mainly because people like the look of them filling the arches and large wheels.

[Y4YETI]

I do not know if it contravenes EU law but it may be a case of not being fit for purpose no matter what car is incapable of fitting snow chains. It matters not how many people actually might use them in GB, it is about ensuring a vehicle might be capable of being road legal throughout the EU and that someone by no fault of their own could transgress the Law in an other member state through fault of a manufacturers deficient design. Quite possibly their may be all sorts of loop holes that manufacturers can use to negate their responsibilities but unless a fuss is made and a stance taken it is just the thin end of the wedge. On top of that he advertising push makes it plain that this vehicle is about life style and has greater capabilities than most ordinary cars. The manufacturers now that people will be attracted to this vehicle because of that, yet it has a deficiency in design and fitment that prevents it from legally driving in some part of the EU without unreasonable modification taken at the drivers own expense.

Agree with you completely Anthony.

Simon what you say about cosmetic appearance may be true of for hatchbacks, saloons, estates etc but should not take priority over function for SUV's that are expected to cope with a wider range of conditions. Are you able to name the other SUV or off road 4WD vehicles that cannot take snow chains on the factory supplied wheels and tyres.?

[jst_at_home]

Staying with the snow chain debate, I currently run a VW Passat 170 TDI as a company car. If memory serves me VW say in the handbook that snow channs should not be used with the 215/55-16 tyre fitting, rather they suggest chains can only be used with 205/55-16 on 7x16" rims.

I believe this is to do with clearance behind the wheel and in any case only chains with slim links should be used.

However, I do use a set of Weissenfels Klack and Go Quattro which I got from snowchains.co.uk http://www.snowchains.co.uk/main/quattro.htm. You'll see that as with the Spikes Spyder, there is nothing behind trhe wheel as all the hardware fits on the outside or around the circumference of the tyre. They are quick and easy to fit but expensive. They do the job however.

There has also been discussion about autosocks and similar. I have been using autososks for a few years now and they are a good remedy against being caught out by sudden bad weather. However they are not a legal alternative to snow chains or winter tyres. Again they are dead easy to fit and in this instance they are cheap. http://www.autosock.co.uk/

Finally regarding winter tyres, I think that the UK government has been under pressure to consider the mandatory use of winter tyres but has resisted. The thing about winter tyres is that below 7 degress centigrade rubber becomes hard. Also when there's snow down, it gets packed into the tread of a rubber tyre so you end up with virtually a slick. True winter tyres have a high silica content which remains pliable at sub 7 degress and the mix and the tread design are self cleaning. While we may not have the snow on the ground for most of the winter as in parts of central and northern Europe, the termperature is frequently sub 7 degress.

For those who haven't used winter tyres, they are just fantastic.

Storage is a problem but I happened upon a piece of kit in a shop in Austria (Tchibo Coffee Shop) about 4 years ago where I bought what is effectively a piece of aluminium tube in two parts that fits verticaly into a stand. The wheels are held on the pole horizontally by 4 strong plastic rings which support the rim at the hub. I'll provide a photograph when it stops snowing! I'm sure this could be made by any reasonably competent DIYer.

As has been stated elsewhere, both winter tyres and all season tyres are available in both 16" and 17" sizes to fit the Yeti but note that if you are fitting all season tyres to your Yeti to travel in countries where winter tyres are mandatory, the tyres have to have the "mountain and snowflake" symbol on the sidewall. Not all "all season" tyres have this.

Can I recommend people check out this site where even if you don't buy from them, you can check out available tyres http://www.mytyres.co.uk/start.html

John

Edited 9 March, 2016 by ColinD
Updated Link

[Anthony 1]

That is an interesting reply jst_at_home. It has been my thoughts that it is the inner side of the wheel that might be the problem with fitting chains. Thank you for your observations about your car and chains, also for the other links and advice about the legality of all whether tyres in the EU.

[Y4YETI]

.<snip>

As has been stated elsewhere, both winter tyres and all season tyres are available in both 16" and 17" sizes to fit the Yeti but note that if you are fitting all season tyres to your Yeti to travel in countries where winter tyres are mandatory, the tyres have to have the "mountain and snowflake" symbol on the sidewall. Not all "all season" tyres have this.

Can I recommend people check out this site where even if you don't buy from them, you can check out available tyres http://www.mytyres.co.uk/start.html

John

Thanks John.

Do we agree that there should be no problem in fitting this tyre to the Yeti Elegant:-

Goodyear Vector 4 Season M&S


It was suggested in an earlier post that Skoda should have asked Goodyear to provide a better all round tyre for the Yeti - how many UK drivers really need a W speed rating of 168 mph on a Yeti unless they intend to fit a jet turbine unit and put it on a race track?

The H speed rating is more than enough for legal use within the UK and most of Europe.

If this tyre is indeed a more appropriate one for a SUV I wonder if as a goodwill gesture Goodyear and Skoda could come to an arrangement to do a tyre change free of charge for newly purchased Yetis and offer this alternative for new purchasers. It seems a reasonable thing to do especially having regard to the fact that snow chains cannot be fitted to the existing 17" wheels. Edited 9 September, 2016 by ColinD

[Y4YETI]

HERE IS A COPY OF THE REPLY I HAVE AT LAST RECEIVED FROM SKODA CUSTOMER CARE

SkodaAuto

Customer Service Centre

Customer name and address details deleted

23 February 2010

SD-2010/02-009793/DL

Dear [customer name deleted],

I write in reference to the e-mail you submitted to [Dealer name deleted]

I am sorry that you have not received an acceptable response to your query and that you feel frustrated and confused by the information provided to you through various outlets, however I believe I am in a position to provide some clarity.

It is not absolutely necessary to downsize your wheels in order to use snow-chains as it is not the size of the wheel that inhibits this, more the width of the tyre on the wheels.

Your vehicle came from the factory set up for the UK market and was supplied with tyres that are 225 mm wide - 225/50 R17 94W.

These tyres have a wider tread, and as such can provide better stability and useability for the majority of UK users. Unfortunately, it is exactly the wider tread that can create issues if a customer chooses to affix snow chains.

As you made clear in your e-mail; within the Yeti brochure, Skoda have advised that snow chains can be used on 17" wheels but only with a tyre width of 205 mm.These tyres, whilst not as well suited to the suspension set up on the Yeti Elegance, provide higher stability in icy or snowy conditions.

Wnen we release a vehicle for sale, we have to consider the uses for the majority of customers and plan the levels of trim and accessories accordingly. Historically, we have not experienced sufficient demand for a smaller wheel fitted with winter tyres to justify offering this as an option. However, in response to the high level of interest we have received for a winter tyre/wheel combination as an option, due in no small part to the unexpected weather the UK has been experiencing, we are involved in discussions with the factory to ascertain if this would be viable in the future.

In such a situation, Skoda UK may be in a position to suggest a suitable means of supplementary traction but not at this time.

Concerning the advice given in the Yeti Owners handbook that tyre chains be fitted to the front wheels; the fourth generation Haldex clutch that is fitted to the Yeti has a 96% drive bias to the front wheels in situations of good traction. In other situations, the clutch can redirect upto 90% drive to the rear, or any individual wheel which had the highest level of traction. Therefore, the advice on where to implement such a device is based on the highest proportion of traction in most situations with the given technology.

Please accept our apologies that [Dealers name deleted] have not responded to your correspondence. This will be raised and discussed with the Aftersales Manager and the Retailer Principal so we can make sure this does not happen again.

I hope I have been able to provide acceptable answers to your query, but if this is not the case do not hesitate to contact me using the information given below.

Yours sincerely,

[Name deleted]

Customer Case Manager

SkodaAuto Customer Services

Selectapost 34 Tel 0845 7745 745

Sheffield Fax 0844 8267 855

S97 3FA Website www.skoda.co.uk

Registered in England 514809 Registered office Yeomans Drive, Blakelands, Milton Keynes MK14 5AN SkodaAuto is a Division of Volkswagen Group United Kingdom Limited. A wholly owned subsidiary of Volkswagen AG.

Edited 25 February, 2010 by Y4YETI

[Anthony 1]

Well done Y4YETI, thank you for your efforts and perseverance on this matter. At last you have had a useful response. Excellent now something may happen.

Edited 25 February, 2010 by Anthony 1

[Y4YETI]

Well done Y4YETI, thank you for your efforts and perseverance on this matter. At last you have had a useful response. Excellent now something may happen.

Thanks Anthony.

I expect to hear soon from the Chairman of the Group owning the garage from which we purchased our Yeti.

When had explained to the Sales Advisor that one of the principal reasons for our purchase of a 4WD vehicle was to avoid being snowed in. We live on high ground and get a degree of snow drifting from the tunnel effect of winds from the the river valley beneath us.

A Director of the Company told us how excellent the Yeti had been in providing staff and customer support to the garage with a "Snow Hill" address.

As the supplied wheels and tyres cannot take snow chains do I understand correctly that the solution is to fit 205mm tyres on the Spitzburg 17" wheels as supplied?

If these replacement tyres were All Season M & S specification would that then make the vehicle legal for visiting other European countries in terms of both general winter performance and enable snow chains to be fitted when mandatory.

What would be the consequences to the suspension set up in providing 205 mm tyres in the interest of higher stability in snowy conditions?

I feel both Skoda and Goodyear should get their heads together and provide a suitable tyre exchange free of charge as a goodwill gesture to resolve this oversight.

Vic

[Anthony 1]

I believe that for those countries that require winter tyres in the winter months that they may need a snow flake symbol but from some other sources I have heard say just suitable M&S tyres. I think one will need to look up in some of those links that I and others provided or perhaps our EU Yeti owner might give us a guide. Most say that higher profiles give the best feel, traction and handling in snow and ice conditions, that is certainly so off-road in mud, greasy clay, grass, sand, etc. Wet clay is extremely slippery as is wet grass A higher or taller profile tyre gives less shock, absorbs imperfections better and so is less likely to break away suddenly because of this. The shear forces are less basically. I prefer the 16" for most uses, there are a greater selection of tyres available even more so with 15" but I think that the brakes might be too big for 15". If I had a choice then I would specify 16" wheels.