Option code or part number for PTC Heater element

[wokwon]

In AU we don't get the heated windscreen, PTC heater (electric) or parking heater (Webasto). We also cannot option any of these.

Normally it's not much of a problem compared to what you guys in Europe endure but there have been days here in Melbourne where I have struggled to demist the windscreen of my MKV Jetta 140PD when it's been parked outside and the temp dropped below 0 deg C overnight. As you know, diesels produce so little heat that I can drive 5Km and still only get tiny amounts of heat (water gets up to 45ish degrees).

I priced the PTC heater element for the Jetta and it was $910AU (1K0 963 235 E). I would get one but I'm now going to trade the Jetta for a Superb II Combi and want to avoid the same problem if possible.

My copy of ELSAWin is too old to show any data for the Superb II.

Does anyone know either:

- The three letter option code for PTC heater and/or same for heated windscreen

- The VAG part number for the PTC heater element and controller

That way I can try to get the dealer to do a manual order, or price it for after market installation by myself.

How would you find out?

- Latest version of ELSA/ETKA

- Put your VIN into a VIN decoder

The PTC heater does not show up on a scan by VCDS as it does not have it's own address. It does have a controller but that is slaved to the central electronics controller. You can tell if it's coded as the CEC long coding, Byte 4 Bit 0 will be high (1).

The heater itself is installed in the airbox, just behind the middle front vents but you won't be able to see it without removing trim pieces. There would be two thick (i.e. finger thick) cables, one to a nearby earth and one to the fuse bus in the front of the car and attached to a 200A fuse. There are also two thin connections to the CAN BUS for control.

Thanks in advance.

[wokwon]

I note from other posts that the Octavia II used the same element, 1K0 963 235 E

I wonder if the one in the superb II is the same.

It's referred to in the documentation as heating element for additional air heating -Z35-

[wokwon]

Found a copy of ETKA and have the following information:

For 2010 onwards SuperbII with climatronic:

1K0 963 235F heater element for electr. auxiliary air heater.

PR code is 7E6

So it looks like it's the same as the MKV VW model, just a newer revision. Part #17 in this diagram:

[Kiwibacon]

Were you able to order and install this heater?

[wokwon]

I found one on ebay and got it but it didn't come with the controller attached. It was just the bare element. Apparently the one with and one without the controller has the same part number and letter.

So I've found another one with a controller shown in the photo and ordered it (ebay again). It's coming from somewhere in Europe so hasn't arrived yet.

I've already got the 4-gauge cable, midi fuses and crimps so just need to visit the dealer to get the 4 pole plug for canbus and I'm good to go once it arrives.

Will update when I've installed it, although I'm not going to do a how-to as I'm a close-enough-is-good-enough kind of guy.

(Note: Don't have a Superb, still got the Jetta and will be installing in the Jetta as my situation RE new car has changed - doesn't matter, the heater box and part is the same).

RE the install, this web page DIY PTC (Auxiliary) Heater Install and ELSA is what I'm using for instructions.

[wokwon]

Heater still hasn't arrived yet. I'm hoping it does before Friday as this is a 3-day weekend.

I've got my wire and fuses already. Just need to visit the dealer for the 4 pole plug (CAN-comfort)

[wokwon]

OK I finally had a day where I didn't have to work and all the parts were in one place.

I've previously posted a link to a vwvortex page with instructions. That is for a LHD car. Everything in ELSA is also for a left hand drive car. The install for a RHD car is much more tricky as there is a heap more crap mounted in the passenger footwell compared to the drivers footwell. At least the glovebox is a piece of cake to remove.

It took me 6 hours non-stop to tear down the car, install the module, run wires and then put the car back together. I went to the dealer (Bayfords VW) to buy the repair wire and 4 pin connector for the heater module and they said they'd never sold those parts before and would have to order from Singapore or Germany with a 2-3 week wait. I opted to kludge instead and used wirewrap (it's an electrical prototype technique) where the connector usually went for the comfort CAN bus wires. I tapped the comfort CAN bus from the Climatronic control panel as it takes 5 minutes to access (I'm practiced getting to it from when I added the 729B bluetooth, MDI and RNS-510 - My MDI and 729B are jammed behing the clima module).

The grommet in the passenger side through the firewall is already packed solid with wires and there was very little room left to run my 4-gauge cables through it but I managed in the end after a lot of swearing. There was a handy earth point in the passenger left hand kick panel (lower A-pillar).

Anyway, I coded the module in in the two places (CAN-gateway and central electronics) and it didn't throw any codes. I used the output tests and the unit came on and showed current draw and I got some warm-ish air from the vents.

However, it doesn't seem to automatically turn the module on. Below is a log I took this morning of my drive to my first client's site. It's a short hop on the freeway from home to work. Outside temp was around 12 degrees. Some of the measurement values have been divided by 10 or 100 to fit on the same scale - you can see them in the legend.

The interesting values are the "Element Amps" (i.e. element current draw), Water Temp and alternator load. The element amps is the green line and you can't see it as it never leaves zero.

I know the element current is varied to suit alternator load (to keep it under 90% ish) and is also supposed to shut off when the water temp reaches 75 deg C but the element never turned on. I had the clima set at full auto, 23.5 deg C and ECON was off. Alternator load is pretty consistently under 30%. Heat request was 1 (i.e. requested) all the trip. Voltage was pretty consistent at 14.2V.

When I got to work I checked again, the PTC controller had no error codes and when I commanded it on with the output tests it came on straight away and the air from the vents got a bit warmer.

I'm not sure whats wrong there. I'll hit google and on my trip home might wind the clima up to 'HI' and see if it comes on then.

I'm pleased with my wiring however, after 5 mins at home with the element on (started at 75A and dropped back to 50A after a while) and the 4-gauge cable I used wasn't even warm.

[rwbaldwin]

The ECON must be off and the temp must be set to at least 90% of maximum for the Climatronic to switch on the PTC via CAN-Bus.

[Kiwibacon]

Try hitting the defrost button. Before I knew what the PTC was called I could get warm air from audi vents with a cold engine this way.

[wokwon]

The ECON must be off and the temp must be set to at least 90% of maximum for the Climatronic to switch on the PTC via CAN-Bus.

I believe that the 90% of max thing is only correct for Climatic (i.e. not dual zone controller climatronic) but I will try that tonight. You are correct about ECON which is why I pointed out that I had it off (ie.. on full auto).

[wokwon]

Try hitting the defrost button. Before I knew what the PTC was called I could get warm air from audi vents with a cold engine this way.

I assume you mean front defrost. I'll give that a bash too.

My understanding is that as long as the water is under 75 degC, alternator load is not too high, ECON is off and heating request is active then the element should come on.

[rwbaldwin]

In some markets that to not have the PTC option, the software in the climatronic may not know about J604 and is instead talking to the ECU, expecting it to switch relays.

If you haven't done so already, you can wire a switch to pin 3 of J604 to control it manually.

[wokwon]

The ECON must be off and the temp must be set to at least 90% of maximum for the Climatronic to switch on the PTC via CAN-Bus.

Try hitting the defrost button. Before I knew what the PTC was called I could get warm air from audi vents with a cold engine this way.

Turns out you're both right. Based on rwbaldwin saying that the temp demand must be 90%, when I got into the car last night I wound the temp to 29 degrees (outdoors was about 15). As it was on AUTO, the fan spun up highish and I got almost instant warm air, so the PTC element is working. The defrost button would do the same thing (set temp to high, fan to highish). It made me very happy.

This morning, same trip to same work location but the difference is that the outdoor temperature was 7 deg C, rather than the 12 from yesterday. My logging shows the PTC heater same on straight away and I had warm air within a minute. I pressed recirc and the PTC element stayed on. The below graph tells the tale.

You can see that the heater element rose quickly to about 50A while I was pootling along the residential streets and peaked at 75A at about 2200RPM. It settles down to 60A and then decreases as the water temp rises. When the water temp reached 75 degC, the heater cuts out entirely as expected.

Note that this morning my temp setpoint was 23.5 degC (my usual winter setting). I didn't need to wind it right up like I did last night.

I must assume then that the 90% or more demand figure is calculated based on the intake temperature (i.e. ambient air) and the heating setpoint as I can't see a measuring block in the HVAC unit or the PTC unit that refers to heating demand, other than the binary demand/no demand.

You can also see at around sample 1825 where I was idling at the traffic lights how the water temperature started dropping. This was in about 7 degrees outdoor temperature. I'd hate to see what happens to you guys with real cold conditions to deal with (Melbourne is pretty mild compared to say, Canada or Europe).

Thanks to all those that made suggestions. If you have any questions on the install please ask. I didn't take any photographs unfortunatley.

[Kiwibacon]

Excellent result. If I can't order a car with a PTC (right now they can't even tell me I can order a manual gearbox) I might have to follow in your footsteps.

We were at -10C the other morning.

Edited 19 June, 2012 by Kiwibacon

[wokwon]

For me, I'm holding out on leasing a superb for 6 months to see if they bring in the 125TDI 4x4 that is available in EU. Currently AU only gets the 103TDI 4x4.

You probably won't be able to order a superb with the PTC in NZ. I asked my dealer (in Jan) can he do an order and add in 7E6 (PTC Heater) and 4GT (heated windscreen with extra insulation lamination) and the dealer said they can only order the combinations that were listed in their computer. I figured that as it would be a factory build anyway they should be able to order whichever options I want.

Then they lowballed me on the trade in price and refused to move so I gave up and kept driving the Jetta.

[wokwon]

Further to this thread, it seems that the climatronic front panel diagnostics (i.e. hold down ECON and Up Vent) has some channels of interest:

20.0 Additional heat demand true/false

20.1 Additional heat demand confirmed by PTCheater (I assume this means heater on) true/false

20.2 Additional heat current (A)

20.3 Exterior Air intake % (guessing that this is the recirc flap percentage)

20.4 Exterior Air % cooler - this might be the mythical 90% figure that the system needs to read. My guess is that it could be how much cooler the external air is compared to either the cabin temperature or the interior temperature setpoint.

I'll check this out tonight, might be able to display the channel 20.2 on the clima diagnostics without having to plug in VCDS. This could be useful if there is ever any doubt if the heater is on.

[Kiwibacon]

For me, I'm holding out on leasing a superb for 6 months to see if they bring in the 125TDI 4x4 that is available in EU. Currently AU only gets the 103TDI 4x4.

You probably won't be able to order a superb with the PTC in NZ. I asked my dealer (in Jan) can he do an order and add in 7E6 (PTC Heater) and 4GT (heated windscreen with extra insulation lamination) and the dealer said they can only order the combinations that were listed in their computer. I figured that as it would be a factory build anyway they should be able to order whichever options I want.

Then they lowballed me on the trade in price and refused to move so I gave up and kept driving the Jetta.

I am currently trying to push the NZ skoda agents into ordering the car I want. By the sound of it, very close to the car you want. But I also require (as in dsg is a deal-breaker) a manual gearbox. I've had a dealer make up all sorts of stories why they can't. So I've cut out the middling man from my communications.

If enough of us push for special order cars they may see sense and sell us the cars we want. For me it's as simple as ordering an Irish spec car and delivering it to NZ. There is no good reason this can't be done. From this end they keep trying to push me towards cars they already have, which are not the cars I am interested in buying.

At present NZ gets Australian spec cars. Which is just plain silly considering the differences in climates and terrain they are trying to sell them through.

I suspect by the time they can present me some options, that the new Octavia will be out and that may twist my arm away from the superb.

Edited 19 June, 2012 by Kiwibacon

[wokwon]

Ah sounds like you've had a bad experience with DSG. I love mine and could never go back to a slushbox or manual. I do hate CVTs with a passion though.

[Kiwibacon]

Ah sounds like you've had a bad experience with DSG. I love mine and could never go back to a slushbox or manual. I do hate CVTs with a passion though.

I plan to own whatever car I buy new for 10 years or so. In that 10 years a DSG would cost more to buy, more to run, more to service and if/when it has issues would cost thousands more to fix.

But the big issue, is it'll be no fun at all to drive. I like changing gears and can't see a DSG offering me any benefits.

AFAIK there is no 125kw tdi dsg 4x4 skoda in rhd anywhere in the world. VW have a Passat locally which fits that description.

[wokwon]

AFAIK there is no 125kw tdi dsg 4x4 skoda in rhd anywhere in the world. VW have a Passat locally which fits that description.

:( Bugger. The Passat is ugly and small inside and I hate the electric park brake.

[Kiwibacon]

Yes, the electric parking brake is a deal breaker for me too. I prefer the Superb for a lot of other reasons anyway.

[rwbaldwin]

I looked it up for your. The other condition is that the cabin air temp and outside air temp must be below 20°C.

The other thing is that you shouldn't use recirc below zero. It's for the same reason that a/c doesn't open at low temperature. With the PTC on, you can have warm(ish) moist air from the cabin hitting the heater matrix which can be below zero

[Danny 57]

I like the electric parking brake having had it in the Insignia.

[wokwon]

I looked it up for your. The other condition is that the cabin air temp and outside air temp must be below 20°C.

The other thing is that you shouldn't use recirc below zero. It's for the same reason that a/c doesn't open at low temperature. With the PTC on, you can have warm(ish) moist air from the cabin hitting the heater matrix which can be below zero

Thanks rwbaldwin.

I can confirm that climatronic diag channel 20.2 shows heater current so thats an easy way to check if I'm ever not sure if it's working.

Any notes on how to perform climatronic basic settings? I suspect that I may have bumped some of the servos while working on it, the air from the footwell vents seems to be colder than usual (possibly imagining it). I assume that an adaptation channel needs to be adjusted...

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk

[rwbaldwin]

Start with the key out of the ignition.

Put key in ignition and turn on ignition - do not start car.

Simultaneously hold the ECON and the 'Airflow to Head' button.

You should hear the flaps moving. When it's finished, turn off the ignition and remove the key.