Fabia 1.6 TDI CR 105ps Running issues and MPG Problems

[Jon Dimond]

So it's reasonable to accept half of the mpg on an urban run from cold then? 

 

I fully understand how they test the cars and I do honestly appreciate that these are not real world figures. But to simply say these are nonsense is ridiculous.

 

 

Forget the Official figures, they have nothing to do with Vehicles & driving on roads.

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/fuel-consumption-statement

 

http://dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp

http://dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/exhaust-emissions-testing.asp

[GeneralPurpose]

John, I'd say you do seem to have a problem with your car if there is no low down power. It could be a number of things but without seeing the car and digging around I cannot tell you much. I suspect it's induction/fuel related, so turbo, egr, air mass sensor, air filter and/or air box pressure sensor, fuel filter etc etc. I'd love to go over the car but that's not practical. You won't necessarily even get a warning light on the dash with some sensors faults, as I found out myself a few weeks ago. It could ultimately be a faulty ecu. I found that with a 1.6cr golf. Had to put it on the dyno to see what was going on and the fault showed up but no lights on the dash at anytime. All fixed under warranty.

[Jon Dimond]

I think that there is a problem too, but as far as Skoda are concerned, it's logging no fault, so no fault exists.

It's convincing them to look into it properly that's the problem.

John, I'd say you do seem to have a problem with your car if there is no low down power. It could be a number of things but without seeing the car and digging around I cannot tell you much. I suspect it's induction/fuel related, so turbo, egr, air mass sensor, air filter and/or air box pressure sensor, fuel filter etc etc. I'd love to go over the car but that's not practical. You won't necessarily even get a warning light on the dash with some sensors faults, as I found out myself a few weeks ago. It could ultimately be a faulty ecu. I found that with a 1.6cr golf. Had to put it on the dyno to see what was going on and the fault showed up but no lights on the dash at anytime. All fixed under warranty.

[Ootohere]

Jon, i never said the the EU test results were 'nonesense', i said they had nothing to do with a vehicle on a road.

As they say, 'As a Comparison between manufacturers models', "may not represent the  fuel consumption iachieved n real world driving conditions."

A car is tested and might represent a class of car'. 

 

Since the car tested is to do 3,000 km. before being tested,

(they never say if actually driven outside on a track or road,

or just run on a rolling road to represent 3,000 km on the engine, exhaust etc,  so that it is not brand new)

 

it would be more honest to give the fuel figure for what is used in the 3,000 miles.

Then they can do there rolling road test as they like.

 

I know how few days this past 12 months we had days between 20*oC-30*oC where i am.

& i also now i get my best fuel consumption on nice cool days or nights between 6-12*oC once the engine oil is up to normal operating temperature..

 

I can match the Official Figures for most cars i have had when driving a car on the road, sometimes bettering them,

but not for only 2.4 miles, or 4.5 miles from a cold start on a cold day.

& sometimes not the same from just me in a car, to having 3 passengers and luggage probably.

 

All the best with finding what the problem is with the car if there is one.

[multiskoda]

 

The car feels like it has NOTHING below 2000rpm, it won't even maintain speed on the flat unless you give it a lot of throttle, it feels like there is just no power at all, almost as if there is something holding it back tbh. This pretty much renders 5th gear useless, as I'd have to break the speed limit to get it in the power band I have. The book says that peak torque is 250nm from 1500-2500 rpm, and as it has a variable vane turbo, this should be a pretty much flat torque curve.

 

My mum had a 75ps 1.6CR Polo and now has a 105ps 1.6cr Audi A1. I've driven both of them quite a lot. I drove the A1 last week for the day and it's just a totally different car, it feels like it wants to go. 

 

Now that's interesting. I can't find you having mentioned which version of the 1.6TDI yours is, but I assume it's the 105?

 

If so, then it's the same as mine, and from what you've said, there's something wrong. You should be able to accelerate/overtake at 70mph (2000rpm-ish) no problem whatsoever with that engine. I never have to drop to 4th on the motorway, so if you're having to, you've got a problem. 

 

Perhaps a visit to a rolling road will be the only way to prove there's something wrong. At least you can send the invoice to Skoda UK afterwards...

[GeneralPurpose]

Hello again Jon. Well there are several things open to you. But the first one is to get Skoda Uk involved. Make sure you telephone them for a chat about it and ask who to write to at their HQ. Then back that call up with a letter explaining your situation with the car. Skoda Uk are usually quite helpful and will do their best to get things underway to explore what is wrong. Tell the dealer you are going to contact SUK to get some help. Don't get your dealers back up but explain it's a real problem and you need to get it sorted. They'll understand and will help under instruction for SUK. An investigation on a different level may follow quite quickly. Make sure you tell SUK of the slightly intermittent nature of the problem with fuel consumption and the power deficiency is very important to mention and how long it's been like it. It could all be simply a problem somewhere with a dodgy sensor that is altering it's values at different times and throwing everything out. But you need it fixing, and it will be I'm certain. 

[inventory-photo]

It may not be a related problem, but someone on the Rapid forum had a software update applied to their 1.6CR car by Skoda recently, which they said made the engine much smoother, less juddery and much nicer to drive.

 

Might it be worth asking about this at your local Skoda garage?

 

EDIT - Here you go http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/293759-how-smooth-should-my-16-tdi-be/?p=3493124

Edited 8 January, 2014 by inventory-photo

[PDIBK]

For perspective, I just returned from a meeting - 20 miles.  That's 20mph out of work complex (couple of hundred yards), 50mph A road, country road (flowing, quite fast), 40mph through a village (signed 40 - not speeding!) and then country road, then A303 for 10 miles (70mph) and off to the destination.  I did it in about 25 minutes I expect (I didn't time it) and my Av mpg said 42mpg. 

 

Now, I hadn't hung about, so I expect the consumption to be high.  The reverse journey this morning to get there, I wasn't in as much of a hurry, took it easier and it said 52mpg.  The 10 miles on the A303 killed the economy a bit.

 

If you are showing av spds of 20mph, for 20 minute journeys, returning no more than 50mpg and feeling no power, it seems to point to a fault of some sort - over fuelling, not warming up correctly, some sort of sensor.  Or are you just hanging on to the higher gears or changing up early?  I know you've experimented with driving style, but maybe your journey types suited the 3 cyl 1.2 and don't suit the 4 cyl car.  Which is a shame.

 

As you say - if you return poor economy figures, it makes you feel as if you've bought the wrong car and coulld have saved money and got something else that would perform as well in the real world, even if it's much worse on paper.

[marky]

I have done 5000 miles in my Monte TDI since I got the car in September.

I only really use it to get to work and back.

This is a 25 mile trip consisting of 20miles motorway @ 70mph and 5 miles usually around 20mph.

The car is reporting an "average 2" figure of 49 mpg I can't get it above 50.

 

I expected to be getting closer to 60mpg on mostly motorway so I too am a bit disappointed.

My 8 year old Vectra 1.9 diesel that had done 180000 miles could do 48mpg so was expecting more from a newer diesel engine.

 

I don't think the Fabia (even the diesels) are particularly suited to motorways but more to around town driving.

It could probably do with a sixth gear and the other five changing slightly.

Also it is quite a tall boxy car so the drag CO isn't that good.

 

From your example journeys I would say that you might have been better off with the Petrol model. Not that that is much help to you now.

 

Where in the country are you?

If you feel your car is under powered perhaps another BriSkoda with a TDI 105 Fabia live close by and could give you their opinion?

 

 

[Sparkly]

I don't think the Fabia (even the diesels) are particularly suited to motorways but more to around town driving.

It could probably do with a sixth gear and the other five changing slightly.

Also it is quite a tall boxy car so the drag CO isn't that good.

 

+1

 

Not the same engine but I find my vRS (same car, same shape, only  pinch lower) suffers on economy at the desired 70mph compared to 60 and I am convinced that the shocking aero of our bluff fronted supermini is to blame.  The wind roar really steps up at this speed too.

[Jon Dimond]

I had a bit of time on my hands the other day, and my little lad needed a snooze, so I went for a drive to see what I could get out of the fabia. 

 

This entailed a cold start at home, a 2 mile trip through town in very light traffic, then 25 miles of completely free country roads at an average of 40-50mpg, with the odd 30 zone through the village. I drove it gently, but keeping the revs between 1500-2500 other than the odd acceleration up to maybe 3k. This included the exact journey I was able to squeeze nearly 80mpg out of it too. So 2 miles of urban and 25 miles of extra urban gave me a combined of:

 

MPG 1 is reading 52.7 mpg, Av 28mph in 58 minutes and 27 miles.

 

MPG 2 is reading 48.3mpg, 4:55 hours, 27mph average and 134 miles. 

 

Now I think this sort of journey should see me in the mid to high 60's, not the low 50's

 

I've ordered a cheap bluetooth ELM327 OBD2 dongle, so I'm going to hook it up to Torque Pro and see if that will shed any light on what's going on. 

[ClarkE_123]

We've had our cr 105bhp Monte for over a year now.

It has returned 45mpg avge since we purchased it. We have managed 50mpg on runs, but never much more.

I drove it for six months, the wife driven it since then (she does longer journeys)

Found a few mpg difference by switching air con, to econ.

Car had diesel filter replaced due to warning light, but no improvement of mpg was noticed

[GeneralPurpose]

 

Now I think this sort of journey should see me in the mid to high 60's, not the low 50's

. 

 

Not at this time of year Jon. Remember, you won't get top mpg's from a diesel engine running it on winter diesel. It can knock between 5-8% off your fuel economy depending how it's being driven. So in summer, if you would get around 60mpg on a particular journey, you should be expecting nearer 54mpg + or - some depending on some other factors at this time of year. The very fact the temperatures are lower also affects diesel engine by a disproportionate amount compared to petrol engines. That figure would include the extra use of lights, heaters etc. Winter diesel has slightly less calorific value due to anti waxing agents in it. Although the cetane rating is the same, it burns a little differently too. So economy is affected by some way at this time of year. 

Edited 10 January, 2014 by Estate Man

[Carlodiesel]

Couple of months ago we went up to Hertford from Devon.  245 miles each way.

Motorway most of the way M5-M25-A1M. Left the M25 just passed the M1 junction at which point was doing 57 mpg according to the dash trip.

This was quite spirited driving (as if on an airfield)

 

Hit the traffic on the A1M and crawled to Hertford. Even turned the engine off 3 times.

 

mpg was down to 42.

Run back home and was 56  mpg again spirited driving.

Car was slightly loaded equivalent to 3 people.

I don't hang around.

[Jon Dimond]

I got the tracking done today as Skoda keep bleating on about it. The guy had to get an oxy torch out to free of the nuts! He said he'd never had to do that on a 2 year old car before! Anyway, the toe was 3 degrees out, so it's all fine and dandy now.

Anyway, I reset the trip when it was warm and got a random 72mpg over 6 miles with an average 30mph. It was over 80 before I hit town.

[Jon Dimond]

We took the car into Skoda today as planned and gave them a list of faults to have a look at. They've said they'll replace the de-laminating badges on the car, but the ones on the wheels aren't covered under warranty as they could be damaged by stone chips. I can't really be bothered to argue that one as you can barely see those. They're also replacing the broken part of the gearknob.

 

As far as the running problems go, I don't think they've looked too far into it so far.

 

The courtesy car is a 2013 Fabia estate 105 S. so almost identical to our car. We picked it up at 9am, the temperature was 0oC and the car was cold. Our first day saw 60.9 mpg, over 65 miles in 2h55 at av 22mph.

 

Today we took it over to the farm from cold, this would normally see us into the late 30's early 40's. The hire car got us 55 by the time we got there and was up to 58 by the time we got home. It is MUCH nicer to drive, smooth, quiet and responsive.

 

So they can bluff as much as the like, I'm not having it anymore.  

[GeneralPurpose]

Jon, your own car definitely seems to have an issue that needs correcting. You must push this with Skoda and the dealer. 

[Jon Dimond]

So far today I've achieved 63mpg on the way to my workshop and 71mpg on the way back. It was up at 77 before i hit town. It's 8 miles each way, engine cold both times. Deezle from Esso@tesco express as per normal.

[Jon Dimond]

Todays journeys involved a trip to the farm and back, then a scoot up the motorway to Birmingham. 

 

Figures

Journey 1, from cold, light traffic. My partner drove, she thinks she's Juha Kankkunen. It got 59.1 mpg, 59 miles, 43 mph av, 1h22

 

Journey 2, from cold,  Back from Birmingham, I drove, reasonably gently. 67mpg, 41 miles, 44mph av, 56mins.

 

We've not heard from the dealer yet about our car, although Skoda UK tried to phone me at 5:35 this evening, but by the time I phoned back at just gone 6 they had all gone home. I guess it was just to see if I had any updates from them. 

[Jon Dimond]

The dealer had the car all of last week and maintain that they cannot find any faults with the car. I explained to them that the difference in the two cars was astounding, but they're just not accepting that there is a fault. They say they have tested everything. Although, interestingly they did a full DPF forced regeneration to see if it made any difference. It didn't need it as it was showing a successful regen the previous day, but it was mainly to see if it made any difference. The service manager said that it took a very long time to regen, something like 15 minutes? He seemed surprised?

 

Anyway, the car is barely any better, it's still rough and hesitant. The MPG seems to have improved briefly, but has since gone back down to the early 50's we've been seeing. Irritatingly, they claim they can get 64 out of ours on a run. I'm buggered if I can get near that. 

 

So the current solution they are offering is to try and get us into a different car. They say that they can't spend anymore time searching for faults as Skoda won't reimburse them. They are offering us some pretty good deals on a new car, but we weren't planning on buying another one and honestly don't have the money.

 

The other option is to try and swap us into a similar value vehicle, but they don't have very much in stock that interests me. Ours is a pretty top spec SE Plus estate. Has anyone got any experience of the 1.2tsi 85ps in the fabia estate? It's a pretty significant downgrade, but we really don't want to be stuck with this pup that we currently have, especially once the warranty is out.

 

They also have a 105ps 1.2 Octavia estate, but something tells me that a tiny engine in one of those is asking for trouble. 

[xman]

We've recently bought one of the 86ps limited edition fabia SE estates currently on offer at £9995. Compared to our 09 fabia 2 hatchback with the 70ps 1.2htp engine, it's like day and night.

 

Fast, very very quiet, much more economical and refined ride.

 

Done about 3600 miles, economy was good from day one, now averaging 46mpg on mainly long motorway runs at the legal limit (or so my son says.....)

 

My other sons Octavia mk2 SE estate has the 105ps 1.2tsi engine. 41000 trouble free miles in 2 years currently averaging in winter 48-50mpg on mainly 75 mile round trip on A/B roads with some town work. Again, fast, smooth, quiet and refined.

 

We chose this after test driving the 105 ps 1.6cr diesel, which was gruff, noisy and gutless below 1800 rpm in comparison.

 

My Son chose the 1.2tsi for the refinement. Its not quite as economical as the diesel engine - however the figures touted on the forum for the 1.6cr seem very poor and not much better.

 

Always best to test drive an example yourself and see.

Edited 28 January, 2014 by xman

[punyXpress]

There isn't a problem with the ' driving style memory ' with OP's car is there?

[vwroadster]

Hi Jon,

 

Did the garage actually drive both cars back to back, just as you did to be able to see the difference you are talking about?

(Your car and the one they loaned you)

 

If you can tell the difference, surely they can.

I know how disappointed you must feel when it's not as it should be.

I have now added my fuelly to my posts and you can see what pathetic consumption I get.

 

As you state: Drive it like my Nan.

 

I would still try to get the garage to test the 2 cars back to back, if they can't see/feel it then they sound like they are fleecing you.

Good Luck.

Pete.

[Jon Dimond]

Thank you. I must admit that we've lost all faith in the diesel variants. The constant excuses from the dealers about warm up times, dpf regens etc etc are getting on my nerves. I think we'll drive a couple of the petrols and see if they are any better. I don't mind using fuel if I'm 'making progress', but when I'm not I expect it to be frugal.

 

We've recently bought one of the 86ps limited edition fabia SE estates currently on offer at £9995. Compared to our 09 fabia 2 hatchback with the 70ps 1.2htp engine, it's like day and night.

 

Fast, very very quiet, much more economical and refined ride.

 

Done about 3600 miles, economy was good from day one, now averaging 46mpg on mainly long motorway runs at the legal limit (or so my son says.....)

 

My other sons Octavia mk2 SE estate has the 105ps 1.2tsi engine. 41000 trouble free miles in 2 years currently averaging in winter 48-50mpg on mainly 75 mile round trip on A/B roads with some town work. Again, fast, smooth, quiet and refined.

 

We chose this after test driving the 105 ps 1.6cr diesel, which was gruff, noisy and gutless below 1800 rpm in comparison.

 

My Son chose the 1.2tsi for the refinement. Its not quite as economical as the diesel engine - however the figures touted on the forum for the 1.6cr seem very poor and not much better.

 

Always best to test drive an example yourself and see.

[Jon Dimond]

They've reset any learned values in the ECU. So it should be starting from scratch again. 

 

There isn't a problem with the ' driving style memory ' with OP's car is there?