if it wasn't for bad luck .....

[BMXdad]

Careless, naive or just plain bad luck???   :(

 

Bought what looked like a no-brainer .... looked like a proper mint car with an interesting history ... and a seller to be trusted  

 

First trip was a 600 mile round trip ... nothing to worry about I thought ... but after a 2 hour blat up the motorway car goes into limp mode

 

stop for a bit and seems ok 

 

Next day does it again several times .... manage to get home with only a couple of limps

 

Get it to the garage and they change the exhaust pressure sensor and all seems ok ... until a couple of days later 

 

Drive home from work ok ... out in the morning for the school run and it won't go into gear ????

 

Manage to get it moving by starting it in gear but by the time i've got near work its almost impossible to select any gear - manage to get it to the same garage as fitted the sensor

 

New Clutch and DMF needed to replace the uprated(??) clutch and SMF ... goodbye £800 ... less than 1000 miles since I bought it 

 

All seems ok ... quieter/pulls nicely/etc super I thought I can start to enjoy the smile factor of owning a VRS!!

 

Went out for a 100 mile trip up the motorway on saturday afternoon ... 75/80ish most of the way .. and after about 60 miles goes into limp mode again??? stop to try to clear it but does it a couple of times more. Arrive at destination and leave it for a couple of hours and it hasn't done it since ... but I'm driving waiting for it to happen :(

 

what other sensors would be causing the limp mode ??? I need to try and get it to the garage today but would be good to get a heads up before that 

 

Such a shame as the car is stunning and I am trying hard to convince myself I haven't been turned over???

Edited 14 October, 2014 by BMXdad

[MattHunt]

Turbo?

I think there was a thread about sticky turbo vanes doing this although it might only have been triggered over a certain rpm.

[silver1011]

Have you explored any potential redress from the seller? I assume this was a private purchase?

 

The key here is to get the fault codes read. Each time the car drops into limp-home mode it logs a fault. This fault code then gives an indication of which component/s are the issue.

 

The exhaust pressure sensor is a good idea to get swapped out anyway as they are a known weak point, so I'd lose no sleep there.

 

The new clutch and DMF is gutting, especially so soon after you'd bought it, but I assume the gear selections were fine during the test drive so it can only be assumed that the seller had no idea at the point of sale, although I suspect he knew that it had an uprated clutch and SMF conversion fitted which he should have probably mentioned.

 

When the car drops into limp home mode what lights are you getting on the dash? I'm assuming you are getting the Engine Management Light (EML) and a flashing glowplug light?

 

Any sign of the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) light?

 

The best route for correct diagnosis here is posting the fault codes...

[Lewwy]

I didn't think the 2.0 lent itself to SMF conversion too well?

[BMXdad]

All seemed fine in the test drive and he had told me about the clutch ... I haven't gone back to him about the clutch as I don't believe he knew it was about to s^&t itself!!

 

The car is well known here although now back to pretty much standard I believe (well certainly with a standard clutch in it now!!) ... I'm hoping Nick P didn't do anything terminal with all his fiddling!!

 

Will get the code tomorrow and go from there ... dare I say it the turbo seems fine and has been replaced prior to me owning the car

 

Thanks for the advice  

[BMXdad]

Silver - The usual light I get is the management light and the engine light 

 

Did get the dpf light too prior to losing the clutch but I did the fix for that on the motorway and hasn't come back on again

 

Cheers

Edited 14 October, 2014 by BMXdad

[silver1011]

Nick P's old car? As far as I can tell this car has been very well looked after although I'd be checking the underside for scuffs and scratches

 

It was looooowwwwwww!

[BMXdad]

Yes thats the one ... as I said at the top its a beauty - I've just been unlucky I think 

 

It feels low enough now just under standard ... he must of had to crawl out of it !!!

[Genesisman80]

Private or Trade you have rights... pursue them politely at first but remain firm with photocopies of evidence.

 

Involve the CAB or trading standards, worst case it will end up in the small claims court, most people settle before then.

 

I came to an agreement with the guy I got our Skoda from.... he paid £1100 back to us out of £1500 in repair costs (work and parts)

after he sold us a pup.

 

The law has changed in the favour of those who buy stuff. not those who sell it.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[Stu08]

Private or Trade you have rights... pursue them politely at first but remain firm with photocopies of evidence.

 

Involve the CAB or trading standards, worst case it will end up in the small claims court, most people settle before then.

 

I came to an agreement with the guy I got our Skoda from.... he paid £1100 back to us out of £1500 in repair costs (work and parts)

after he sold us a pup.

 

The law has changed in the favour of those who buy stuff. not those who sell it.

 

Regards

 

Mark

 

Are you sure this applies to private sales?

[softscoop]

Are you sure this applies to private sales?

It doesn't

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_legalrights.html

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/cars_buying_a_car_e/cars_buying_a_used_car_e/cars_ways_of_buying_a_used_car_e/buying_a_car_from_a_private_seller_what_you_need_to_know.htm

 

 

If you buy privately, it's a case of 'Buyer Beware'. You won't have the same legal protection as you would if buying from a dealer and it's up to you to ask the right questions and inspect the car thoroughly before you buy.  It's a good idea to get an independent engineer to give the car a thorough mechanical inspection, and to get a car history check to make sure there's no shady past.

 

Because your legal rights are more limited, unscrupulous dealers may masquerade as private sellers: be very wary if a private seller wants to meet you somewhere other than at their home, or if their name is not on the V5C registration document.  A dealer pretending to be a private seller is committing a criminal offence.

 

The only legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:

 

the seller must have the right to sell the car

the vehicle should match the description given by the seller

the car must be roadworthy - it is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy car and an MOT certificate from a test several months ago is no guarantee that the car is roadworthy today.

[Genesisman80]

Here

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/the_car_you_bought_is_not_roadworthy.htm

 

You can still take a private seller to court if they refuse.....

 

Regards

 

Mark

[seriesdriver]

Here

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/the_car_you_bought_is_not_roadworthy.htm

 

You can still take a private seller to court if they refuse.....

 

Regards

 

Mark

 

 

It can be difficult proving a genuine private seller knew an moted car was unroadworthy, there is also a big difference between unroadworthy and just faulty not very good.

 

 

From your link 

If you bought the car from a private seller

If you bought the car from a private seller, it is unlikely your local Trading Standards service will take action. However, you could still take the seller to court yourself. Going to court can be expensive. Get independent advice before you go ahead.

Edited 16 October, 2014 by seriesdriver

[VrsMule]

Interesting, Genesisman80, can you share your experience ?

[Genesisman80]

I dealt with a small time dealer.....

 

but either way I looked into small claims court and to get about £1500 quid back would have cost me £80 to start the ball rolling, more if I wanted things like an enforced summons etc

 

Within a month of ownership my diesel pump was leaking so much diesel it had to be replaced, then the turbo died etc this small trader was adamant he didnt have to pay..... I kept it up.. letters etc

it would have been the same if I had brought private.... I wouldnt have flinched.... unless someone hands you a car for peanuts and says sold as seen and you agree I think its fair to argue the point.

 

I wasnt greedy I didnt sting him for the full service I had or the alternator pulley...... but I stood my ground on the Diesel pump and Turbo, he wanted me to fit a recon I fitted brand new after advice was sought.

 

I'd of taken him to court if I had to...... but he paid me off at the 11th hour, I would do the same again with a private seller if it was such a serious issue.

 

A broken spring/worn suspension bush is one thing....... a defective turbo/leaking diesel pump is something else entirely.....

 

No mr trader wasnt happy that my mechanical at my independent had done the work, he wanted his mate to bodge it............ but I stood my ground without having to get silly or nasty.

 

I respect that some people sell cars in good faith, but these folk are a small percentage in my book..... having been fleeced once before on a unroadworthy A6.... I'll fight anyone that wants to rip me off.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[VrsMule]

Ok , so you didn't have a private sale ?

[BMXdad]

Silver ...

 

It was 2 faults .. Turbo over boost and turbo under boost!!!

 

Faults cleared and we will see how it goes on this weekends round trip to cornwall!!

[Nick P]

Hi Martin.

 

I was just wondering how you got on on your trip this weekend?

 

I didn't hear back from you since I PM'd you back last month. You mentioned in your first PM to me that the turbo seemed loud. Given that observation, the codes and the limp mode, I think you're ready for a replacement. The chap I sold it to and you bought it off seemed like a decent enough bloke. I'm inclined to think you've just been really unlucky. Turbos on these do fail, it's just one of those things. The clutch though was very surprising, it wasn't very old and certainly in my custody hadn't had a hard life at all.

 

Nick

Edited 21 October, 2014 by Nick P

[BMXdad]

Hi Nick

 

Well I did the near 800 mile round trip with only one limp mode issue ... happened straight after a loo break at the services 100 odd miles into the return journey home

 

Stopped for 10 mins and hasn't done it since ... yet !!

 

What I thought was the noisy turbo must of been the failing clutch/SMF as it has now gone away since they were changed back to standard - just left with a quiet police siren noise for the first few minutes of use (which I read is turbo wear !!)

 

Going back to the garage as they say they have some cleaner which might help the turbo and stop the fault coming up ... we shall see!!

 

Cheers 

[Nick P]

Mr Muscle or Innotec cleaner I guess - Might be worth a go, but police siren noise would suggest play in the bearings, not just a simple sticky VNT mech problem.

 

When I had the original turbo replaced under warranty it had started to go police sireny. It caused stutters and under / over boost and I carefully checked the correct operation of the N75 / VNT mechanism myself before taking it to the dealer. They said there was excessive play in the bearings. The car was perfect again after they replaced the turbo.

 

The boost control setup on the PD170 seems to be a bit of a mare. For one thing, unlike a PD130 etc, in addition to the MAP sensor there is a position sensor on the VNT actuator. Perhaps this lets the ECU respond quicker, pre-empting the MAP reading and allowing more granular, accurate N75 inputs? But I wonder if increased rotational resistance due to failing bearings causes the turbo to spin up slower than the ECU is expecting and it calls for so much N75 that it overcomes the resistance and spins up too aggressively, overshooting and causing an over boost code. i.e. the VNT is clean and operating smoothly but the effect on the turbo speed from a given VNT position change is not as predictable as it should be.

Edited 22 October, 2014 by Nick P

[BMXdad]

you lost me at The ..... !!!!    

[Nick P]

My point is there's a chance cleaning it might work if it's an issue with the VNT mechanism, but if it's gone police sireny, I'd be willing to bet it's a bearing issue, not a VNT issue.

 

If you do need a replacement there are plenty of specialists around. Talk to Turbo Dynamics, Darkside Developments NKK Turbos, etc. It's a GTB1749VM if I remember correctly. Most places operate an exchange system so you'll get some money back when you send them back the failing one.

 

EDIT - GTB1749VM is also called 757042-5016S.

Edited 22 October, 2014 by Nick P

[Nick P]

Here's a picture of your turbo (found goggling for 757042-5016S). The bit top left is the actuator, note the electrical connector on the top for the VNT actuator position sensor. Note also the integrated manifold design.

 

[Nick P]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turbo-Charger-BMN-BMR-BUY-BUZ-VW-2-0-170-hp-757042-1-03G253010A-03G253014K-/350582693030?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

[BMXdad]

Thanks Nick .. appreciate your help on this - hopefully it hangs on for a bit longer !!