2013 1.2 TSI timing chain

[CWH]

Hi everyone, sorry to start a new thread about an old subject but I couldn't find anything that answered my specific question in old threads.

 

I took my car for its first MOT today to an independent garage that I trust. This is the car's first MOT and the first time I've taken it for a service since buying it late last year. Incidentally, the previous owner had all services done with an official dealer. The garage has asked not to service it today before checking out a potential issue with the timing chain.

 

Other people have mentioned issues with a rattling chain but this isn't something I've experienced. The garage's issue was that the TSI's chain can slip when oil pressure drops during a service oil change. He's advised me to take it to the official dealer while it still may be under warranty (not sure if the statutory 3 years is transferable between owners?) and get them to check whether the chain needs replacing. From what I've seen on the net, Skoda issued an instruction to their dealerships to replace the chains with an anti-jump belt sometime in 2013.

 

My question is, is a 2013 TSI going to need anything doing to it by the dealer, or were these cars fitted with the new belt that is supposed to fix the problem? If work is needed, am I likely to have to argue with the dealer to get them to recognise the need for the work and have them do it under warranty? Any advice on winning that battle?!

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

The issue that the garage is talking about was resolved years ago and affected the 1.2 12v 3 cylinder engine built 2002-2006, not the tsi 4 cylinder.

The fault was there was no non return valve fitted in the oil fed chain tensioner and only small chain guides were fitted which, during a loss of pressure allowed the chain to jump.

To be honest your car was built outside the realistic danger zone for any potential chain issues.

If it's not rattling, drives fine and has no warning lights on then the chances are - there's nothing wrong with the timing gear, at all. In that case Skoda would have no reason to replace anything and no bulletin exists other than if the chain is found to be at fault.

The 3 year warranty is completely transferable as long as the milage is under 60k in the 3rd year.

[xman]

I have two cars with 1.2 tsi engines and know all about the camchain problems, the myths, the denials and the various fixes done over the years. For engines built after 2012, however, you should not have camchain problems, provided....

1. Oil changes have been done on time. Important! To stop chain link pivots wearing and therefore chains stretching.

2. The oil filter has been fitted correctly.*

3. The engine is not turned backwards.**

*Point 2, the oil filter has a spring loaded inner oil seal that covers a machined return to sump gallery in the filter housing. This seal closes that gallery and it only opens when the filter is partly spun off, to drain the filter before its taken off completely and stop oil spilling all over the engine. The filter needs to be tight enough to ensure the seal is closed, but also not too tight as the spring bottoms out and the rubber seal distorts which compromises the seal allowing the filter to drain slowly when the engine is stood, which in turn can release the hydraulic chain tensioner. That leads to a chain rattle on start up before the hydraulic tensioner is pressurised and potential for the chain jumping the drive sprockets if the chain is stretched.

Unfortunately, and I have ample proof of this with both my 1.2tsi cars, my dealer grossly over tightens the filter distorting/compromising that all important seal.

**Point 3. Because of the fundamental design of the camchain drive, if you turn the engine backwards, the tensioner is forced back and the other side of the chain drive goes slack. Again allowing the rattle and potential chain jumping.

Don't leave the car in gear, if there's a possibility it can move the engine backwards, i.e. if you park the car pointing uphill in a forward gear, that could move the engine backwards, it only takes slight movement to slacken the chain.

There are internet stories about oil changes leading to immediate disastrous failure, because the tensioner gets released. But this is mainly because of early problems before the chain design was revised in 2011.

A simple precaution, IMO, is to make sure the car is in neutral when draining the oil. Don't leave the engine too long too drain, five minutes is enough. Once the filter/oil has been changed, before starting, maybe just nudge the engine FORWARD a touch by pushing the car forward in 1st gear to ensure the chain is tensioned on the non tensioner side. Then start the engine. If the chain rattles very loudly for more than 2 or 3 seconds, turn the engine off immediately, wait for a few seconds and try again.

Im not aware of any 2013 tpi regarding an anti-jump "belt"??

There was a tpi in mid 2011 (one of several) where a chain kit included a revised plastic top camchain cover that had a moulded guide to prevent the chain lifting too high on the top sprocket. But I think this may have been later dropped and no longer fitted. I had many arguments regarding the earlier 1.2tsi Octavia and an official tpi check done in late 2014 done on it which involved measuring the position of the tensioner and by implication the length of the chain, but it passed.

Now I know all my problems stem from point 2 above, and that is why I do my own servicing now.

Its possible your independent has had a problem with an older tsi engine, or is just overreacting to those old internet stories.

One final point, make sure the correct filter is fitted. The VAG filter or its Mann (OE) equivalent are silver in colour denoting they are use a fully synthetic filter medium suitable for longlife application and other advantages. The filter design was also changed in 2010. The old style, Mann W712/93 was replaced by W712/94 which has a revised sealing arrangement.

My experience is that Skoda dealers deny there are any problems with chains or ignition leads/coilpaks on the 1.2tsi. But that's what they would say, wouldn't they?

Edited 15 June, 2016 by xman

[DomJohnson99]

Sorry to start an old thread again but I'm having a rattle with my skoda fabia monte carlo 2013 1.2 tsi. Sounds like a chain rattle just wondering if anyone knows of any guides or videos that could help with replacement.

[bigjohn]

Rattle when? - on startup(and how long) or all the time and where is the sounbd coming from .  The direct injection can rattle as well.

 

 

Edited 22 March, 2019 by bigjohn

[DomJohnson99]

constant rattle since oil change, the sound definitely seems to be coming from the timing case, also seems to increase with the RPM too.

[rum4mo]

Who carried out the oil change?  If it was you, maybe remove the oil filter and check that there is not another older oil filter O-ring seal below the latest one - I seem to recall that that was an issue with these engines, or am I wrong?