Got my kit, just need to get some time to have a go at a few stone chips now

Can you look into this as soon as you're back, please, as nothing has turned up here. I guess I should give up hope...

How will I get my money back out of this deal?

Can you look into this as soon as you're back, please, as nothing has turned up here. I guess I should give up hope...

How will I get my money back out of this deal?

As per my PM, I've just this minute got back from holiday. For the benefit of the masses though your kits have been returned to my local sorting office for collection. I'll fork out for the postage again when you've confimed an address as an apology for not sorting it out quicker, but it will be dependant on me being able to grab some time out of the office to go into town to collect it.

..

Hello Tom' date='

I am surprised by the tone of your reply.

I am not aware of having dealt with you in an "arrogant" way or "like a *****" as you state. I have merely dealt with this matter in contractual terms as that is all we have between us. I am not your friend and should not have to placate you in any way to make you perform your obligations under our contract.

I advised you of the delivery address in the first PM. That fact that you sent the order to a different address provided by an automated system is entirely of your concern.

The majority of the terms of our contract are implied, however it all boils down to what is "reasonable." I do believe I have given you a reasonable length of time to fulfil your obligations.

I will not take you up on the offer of collecting the goods from your local sorting office, nor will I compensate you for additional costs incurred by you as a consequence of your choice of postal address. Had you made payment by Paypal or delivery only to a Paypal-registered address terms of your offer then I would understand your current stance and would be offering the apology you request, but you did not.

I currently consider you to be in repudiatory breach. Your next step should be concerned with delivering the product, as described, in a reasonable time (which I feel has elapsed). Alternatively, if you are unable or unwilling to perform, I would accept a full refund to rescind this contract.

I do not want to go down the CCJ route as you suggest, but it always remains an option.

Regards,

Derek.

Deek

redacted by dxg - It is Tom's decision to post his replies if he wants to, but I want my dealing with this matter to be in the public record.

Tom.

Hello TOm' date='

Where are we at on this?

Have you resent the package to the correct address?

Is there a tracking number for it?

I've been waiting a very long time for this, now, and am starting to lose patience.

Deek.[/quote']

no ofence DXG but if youre talking about "contractual terms" then you shouldnt be getting involved in group buys as they run on the good will of the people running them. just so you know as well I would have took that original post from you as slightly arrogant if it was sent to me. Just my two pence worth.

There was correspondence before that message.

I acknowledge the goodwill aspect of it all and it is appreciated, but the at the end of the day there is a legal relationship formed and that's what we have to fall back on when it all goes pear-shaped as it appears to have done in this case.

The people willing to make offers raise expectations among others but, in return for the kudos, do create obligations for themselves.

All I really want is to either get what was paid for or my money back. When someone PMs you asking you to "make their day" by pursuing a CCJ, things take a turn for the worse.

Hello Tom,

I note your latest PM to me and I do take on board the points you are making about the nature of group buys.

I do appreciate what you are doing for the people involved and do hope you will find the time to sort this out sooner rather than later.

I stand by my position re "all we have between us is a contract" as that is the fact of the matter. Intent and sentiment are all fine and well but as soon as an offer is made and someone accepts it (and pays some money if you're in England) then a contract is formed. The difference between a contract and promise being that a contract is something you can be held to.

I will - publicly (hello everyone!) - apologise to you if you have been finding my tone harsh, but please appreciate I "do" contracts for a living and the language used, from my perspective at least, has actually been quite soft.

Let's just get this matter done with so we can all relax. All that will take is the package turning up on my doorstep and I look forward to the point where I can post a message publicly to thank you for organising this whole thing.

Deek.

I really wish I was less hasty to delete PMs. Regardless, after supplying dxg with the tracking number prior to me going on holiday, and an assurance I'd look into it on my return, I got home from holiday to read a stern PM talking about 'contractual terms' and how he had 'paid for the goods and it was up to me to provide a refund' etc. Hardly the best tone, but I bit my tongue and sent a message along the lines of 'sorry about this, please confirm the address and I'll get them sent up as soon as I can get a spare hour out of the office'.

The rest:

Hello TOm' date='

Where are we at on this?

Have you resent the package to the correct address?

Is there a tracking number for it?

I've been waiting a very long time for this, now, and am [b']starting to lose patience[/b].

Deek

After reading that, further to the original message I received about contracts, refunds etc my blood boiled. Hence the ****ty reply. I spent tens of hours organising the group buy, compiling the details of over 90 different kits to different addresses. All to save forum members ('mates') a few quid. Yes I did get my kit for free, wow.

Deek

I was planning to use my lunch break today to walk down into town to collect this. As I explained before I'm extremely busy at work at the moment further to being out of the office for a fortnight.

In all honesty I sent them to the registered Paypal address' date=' which might I point out is the address I'm obliged to use if I want any sort of protection from people who paid me using Paypal. I've got no log whatsoever of you advising me of an alternative address. Its unfortunate you didn't bother to update you Paypal, but thats not my problem. Ah wait, you've made it my problem .

I'm trying to be as helpful as possible, and will be using up a whole lunch hour as well as coughing up to have it sent AGAIN. For you to tell me you are getting impatient is laughable. I've not stolen them, robbed you of your money, scammed you or anything like that, infact it is just hassle that I don't need. The other 84 people on the group buy have all received theirs and seem happy.

If you would prefer, I'd be more than happy for you to collect them from the sorting office where they currently reside. Perhaps a bill for my time and additional postage would make you happy? Obviously you could have a refund for the cost of the kits less the delivery to me, import duty, postage I've paid out, so call it what, £35. Maybe you would like to persue a claim through the small claims court, go on, really make my day.

Your confrontational and arrogant attitude throughout have frankly ****ed me off, if you'd have perhaps been a little apologetic for not advising me of the correct address, or been a little more polite instead of talking to me like a *****, then I STILL wouldn't have got round to posting them yet, because I haven't had the chance. But atleast I'd have felt a bit guilty or in someway like I've let someone down. Now I feel like being an ****.

Give me a break, they will be with you when I get round to sending them again.

Tom.

[/quote']

Hello Tom' date='

I am surprised by the tone of your reply.

I am not aware of having dealt with you in an "arrogant" way or "like a *****" as you state. I have merely dealt with this matter in contractual terms as that is all we have between us. I am not your friend and should not have to placate you in any way to make you perform your obligations under our contract.

I advised you of the delivery address in the first PM. That fact that you sent the order to a different address provided by an automated system is entirely of your concern.

The majority of the terms of our contract are implied, however it all boils down to what is "reasonable." I do believe I have given you a reasonable length of time to fulfil your obligations.

I will not take you up on the offer of collecting the goods from your local sorting office, nor will I compensate you for additional costs incurred by you as a consequence of your choice of postal address. Had you made payment by Paypal or delivery only to a Paypal-registered address terms of your offer then I would understand your current stance and would be offering the apology you request, but you did not.

I currently consider you to be in repudiatory breach. Your next step should be concerned with delivering the product, as described, in a reasonable time (which I feel has elapsed). Alternatively, if you are unable or unwilling to perform, I would accept a full refund to rescind this contract.

I do not want to go down the CCJ route as you suggest, but it always remains an option.

Regards,

Derek.

[/quote']

And my final reply (sent prior to dxgs reply to this thread btw).

Ah' date=' well you have clearly missed the point entirely.

I set this up for fellow forum members to save money. The forum is a community, a place where like minded folks share experiences and knowledge. I haven't made money out of it, I did it to help out "friends".

Yet all the communication I have received from you has been in a tone such that you would use when dealing with a business, yet I'm just a "bloke" trying to help out "mates". The first thing I read when I get back from holiday is a ****ty message talking about "contracts" and refunds. Hardly appropriate. For you to then comment that you are losing patience, when I have been nothing other than polite and accommodating has angered me somewhat.

Why on earth would I say on a group buy "if you are with Paypal I'll be sending items to the Paypal registered address"? Members who wanted items despatched elsewhere sent me messages to that effect and I updated my spreadsheet accordingly. If you sent me a message to that effect then I do sincerely apologise, but your tone has still angered me. Mistakes happen, I'm human, hence my offer to send them up to you, at no further cost to yourself, at the first available opportunity. I too would be disappointed to have waited so long. However I still maintain that I do not recall receiving such a message. Again, its the tone in which took when approaching me about the problem thats angered me.

Regardless, I did indeed walk the 2 miles into town on my lunch break, queue for half an hour waiting and walk the 2 miles back to the office again to collect the kits.

I'll do my best to send them off tomorrow, but that will be IF I can spare lunch time tomorrow to wander back into town to post them again.

[/quote']

Yep, I admit I was a bit over the top with my ****ty replies, but generally miffed tbh. I publically apologise to Derek again: if you sent me a message with alternative details and I cocked up, then I do sincerely apologise. You have waited a long time, and I do a little feel personally responsible, hence my offer of sending them up to you again at my own cost.

If the masses think I've been completely unreasonable, then I'll hold my hands up, and stand down as a moderator too.

Tom.

Edited 1 September, 200817 yr by Tom_vRS
Typos.

Hello Tom,

I suspected you may have been angry when you wrote that!

Shall we agree to try to sort this out quickly so we can all move on?

Deek.

Hello Tom,

I note your latest PM to me and I do take on board the points you are making about the nature of group buys.

I do appreciate what you are doing for the people involved and do hope you will find the time to sort this out sooner rather than later.

I stand by my position re "all we have between us is a contract" as that is the fact of the matter. Intent and sentiment are all fine and well but as soon as an offer is made and someone accepts it (and pays some money if you're in England) then a contract is formed. The difference between a contract and promise being that a contract is something you can be held to.

I will - publicly (hello everyone!) - apologise to you if you have been finding my tone harsh, but please appreciate I "do" contracts for a living and the language used, from my perspective at least, has actually been quite soft.

Let's just get this matter done with so we can all relax. All that will take is the package turning up on my doorstep and I look forward to the point where I can post a message publicly to thank you for organising this whole thing.

Deek.

Thanks for that reply. I do understand where you are coming from, guess I'm too soft and take things to heart too quickly.

Like I said, I'll do my best to get them in the post again tomorrow.

Yet again, the "black and white" of forum text possibly catching people (me) out again with misinterpretation of "tone". Ho hum.

Tom.

Excellent!

I don't like falling out with people.

Deek.

Excellent!

I don't like falling out with people.

Deek.

Could have fooled me!! :P

Fingers crossed you'll have them by the end of the week. As per the PM, apologies for the earlier angry PM, I was just so frustrated to have put so much effort into the GB to then feel like it had all backfired...

I'll buy you a beer if you are ever at a meet.

Cheers

Tom.

I'm glad you guys have kissed and made up. Having good experience of using chat rooms and MSN for a few years it became apparent to me very quickly that words written on a PC have no emotion nor any facial expression or body language attached and so often get mis-written and misinterpreted. Lets hope this is just one of those occasions.

Derek, you will be pleased with the kit once it arrives and will hopefully mean this trouble is worth it.

Tom, Thanks again for sorting this GB out and this situation shows that you can be trusted with our money in any future GB's that you run. The kits do exactly what they say on the tin, just a shame that the idiot at the other end of the brush is no good!!

Steve

..

Stop being a complete unmentionable. :thumbdwn:

The guy sent the goods to your paypal address. You are aware that by not keeping the paypal address as valid you are breaking your contract with them aren't you?

Seriously, the bloke is taking all reasonable steps to send you the item at his own cost. I think most magistrates would reprimand you for wasting court time rather than anything else as this can easily be sorted without the litigation attitude.

If I was Tom, I'd have sent you a refund via paypal, minus any fees to me and postage as you provided an incorrect address and have no way of proving otherwise that will stand up in court.

I'd then have sold your kits to whoever wanted them and made you go and buy them elsewhere.

Get a bleeding grip, the bloke goes out of his way to organise this and save people money and he gets this. You obviously have no idea how much effort is required to organise a group buy and post everything out to people!

EDIT: Good good people are playing nice

Mark - you harsh harsh man :P. The thought did cross my mind for a while, but I guess I'm just too nice!