We charge £265.00 all in to members.

People easily forget the overheads and costs that a genuine tuner has.

Advertising

Insurance

Dyno....minimum £30,000 + servicing costs

Everyday overheads....the dyno fan alone uses a huge amount of electricity

and don't forget, unless you go to an idiot with a cheap tuning tool who thinks hes a tuner, you are paying a technician with vast knowledge in his field so he knows exactly what is happening in the software, allowing for adjustment to overcome any particular issues.

Its also nice to know that your transmission, turbo, and engine are safe...and that your £1000.00 ecu is not going to be killed by poor software, tuning hardware or lack of knowledge

I'm of the same opinion cheezemonkhai. As I said before I am happy wit going to a big name tuner like superchips or revo ect...but I will go to the cheapest of them. You will always get expert back up for the big names.

JC

We charge £265.00 all in to members.

People easily forget the overheads and costs that a genuine tuner has.

Advertising

Insurance

Dyno....minimum £30,000 + servicing costs

Everyday overheads....the dyno fan alone uses a huge amount of electricity

and don't forget, unless you go to an idiot with a cheap tuning tool who thinks hes a tuner, you are paying a technician with vast knowledge in his field so he knows exactly what is happening in the software, allowing for adjustment to overcome any particular issues.

Its also nice to know that your transmission, turbo, and engine are safe...and that your £1000.00 ecu is not going to be killed by poor software, tuning hardware or lack of knowledge

Well Advertising, insurance and everyday overheads are of a similar level for most garages and I don't believe they charge anything like £250 per 30 minutes.

As I stated on the previous post, the dyno isn't included in the base price of remaps so it's hardly fair to claim that is part of the £500 most places charge.

Also, where has this £265 come from as you quoted a higher price on another post. Is that £265 for all cars including the 2.0 TDI's PD and CR?

You just quoted approx £500 previously

Hi

The remap will be £495.00 all in.

We are currently in discussion with a possible agent in Ireland although I doubt they will be offering mapping for these later models, as the tool is approx £15,000 to flash just EDC17 models

The comment relating to an idiot with a tuning tool, I think the 50k spent over 6 months allows you to have two experts for 6 months, so I still don't see the costs adding up.

FWIW also many resellers have that knowledge from starting somewhere and most people who start on their own, if they are sensible, will buy a safe generic map from one of the big tuners (GIAC say) and sell it on themselves including the install.

Well Advertising, insurance and everyday overheads are of a similar level for most garages and I don't believe they charge anything like £250 per 30 minutes

Garages aren't quite as specialist as software tuners though

I agree that £500.00 is expensive for a stage 1, but ours is £265.00 all in, our custom tuning is around £400.00

I think you have to allow for some tuners having dealers...so they have to allow profit margin for their dealers, on top of the dealers paying for the software.

FWIW also many resellers have that knowledge from starting somewhere and most people who start on their own, if they are sensible, will buy a safe generic map from one of the big tuners (GIAC say) and sell it on themselves including the install.

Any ''big'' tuner will encrypt and protect their software, as we do, so that others cannot copy their knowledge and distribute software.

We do this ourselves, as the only non-encrypted software out there is usually because its not worth encrypting, or they don't know how to encrypt it!

Any ''big'' tuner will encrypt and protect their software, as we do, so that others cannot copy their knowledge and distribute software.

We do this ourselves, as the only non-encrypted software out there is usually because its not worth encrypting, or they don't know how to encrypt it!

But i'm sure other tuners can read the software once it's uploaded to the car as it has to be uncrypted going into the ECU? No?

Any ''big'' tuner will encrypt and protect their software, as we do, so that others cannot copy their knowledge and distribute software.

We do this ourselves, as the only non-encrypted software out there is usually because its not worth encrypting, or they don't know how to encrypt it!

If you approach some of the larger European tuners they will sell you their generic software for a relatively low price. You don't get to use their name and you don't necessarily get the highest power figures.

I'm not talking about stealing the software, but buying a licence to use a version of it.

FWIW, encryption is always breakable, it's just a matter of time. That plus as stated once it's on the car it's a lot more vulnerable.

I also disagree with the comment from your previous post about tuners being more specialist than a garage.

Apart from the RR which we have already taken out of the equation due to that being priced above the remap price, then a tuner will have similar equipment to a garage and a computer with an OBDII lead and some software to update an ECU with a list of files to choose from.

Like I say this is aimed at generics and while you say a generic map is £295 you have left me confused as you just quoted the guy shy of £500 for a map on a CR 170 TDI.

This isn't aimed just at you by the way, I really think that drivers, especially those of turbo equipped cars are charged much more as the gain is larger so the tuners know that for approximately the same work they can charge more.

I think I'll leave this for any other tuners that can be bothered to get involved and try and help explain costs its obviously a thread I should have left alone

I'm asking you to explain why you quoted just shy of £500 then say all your maps are £295.

I'm quite happy for you to leave the rest of it as you and I are obviously going to disagree that most generic remaps are overpriced. If *all* your generic maps are £300 then what was the £500 for? Of course if a generic remap for all cars is £300 then that is more reasonable.

Other tuners will I'm sure give the same reason you have for the high price, however since I work in the embedded firmware arena, which is essentially what an ECU is, then I've got a pretty good idea of what is involved.

I mean do all the software updated pass the MISRA standards? I somehow doubt every tuner out there has gone to that effort.

I'm asking you to explain why you quoted just shy of £500 then say all your maps are £295.

Other tuners will I'm sure give the same reason you have for the high price, however since I work in the embedded firmware arena, which is essentially what an ECU is, then I've got a pretty good idea of what is involved.

I mean do all the software updated pass the MISRA standards? I somehow doubt every tuner out there has gone to that effort.

The tool update which only flashes the later ECU used in the 170 CR cost us £12,500 and up to 2 - 3 weeks unpaid development time. .....for ONE ECU type. We also have software updates to allow this ECU to be tuned which is a further £14,000 with ongoing updates for various software versions.

This thread is not for me or any other tuner to post every price for every ECU type and vehicle. I'm the only tuner that has bothered answering your questions, but please, don't feel like you need to direct all your questions at me.

ther tuners will I'm sure give the same reason you have for the high price, however since I work in the embedded firmware arena, which is essentially what an ECU is, then I've got a pretty good idea of what is involved.

If you have the knowledge, and you feel there is alot of profit involved, then why don't you start a ECU tuning company (not Ebay a ''company'') and sell maps for the price you think is fair and cheaper after developing them all (allowing for at least 14 different software versions for every engine type i.e 130PD, 1.8T 150bhp, 1.8T 180bhp etc etc which must be developed individually)?

Once you have done this and succeeded, then you can quiz professional tuners

If you have the knowledge, and you feel there is alot of profit involved, then why don't you start a ECU tuning company (not Ebay a ''company'') and sell maps for the price you think is fair and cheaper after developing them all (allowing for at least 14 different software versions for every engine type i.e 130PD, 1.8T 150bhp, 1.8T 180bhp etc etc which must be developed individually)?

Once you have done this and succeeded, then you can quiz professional tuners

Because I have a job that pays me fine for now and I don't want to work in vehicle tuning because while there is money to be made there, there is even more money to be made elsewhere.

As I've said many times, there are big companies that spend a lot of time developing a map then will sell if to a reseller for a one off fixed fee or a per car fee.

Edited 2 December, 200817 yr by cheezemonkhai

This thread is not for me or any other tuner to post every price for every ECU type and vehicle. I'm the only tuner that has bothered answering your questions, but please, don't feel like you need to direct all your questions at me.

I really do think it's a simple question..

If as you state every generic map is £295 to forum members, why is that one £495?

If it's a custom map per car, fair enough, I just don't see how you can on the one hand claim all generic maps are £295 and on the other hand state that the generic map for CR170 is £495.

A != B so to speak.

So either not all generic remaps are £295, eg newer ones are more or all generic remaps are £295 and your CR 170 is either custom or was mis-priced.

There are plenty of good reasons for the CR170 being more, including the plain fact that "it's new and we want to recover costs more quickly". Nothing wrong with that as a reason for higher cost, it just means that the statement isn't true.

The rest of what I wrote was statement or rhetorical questioning.

FWIW, you came in implying superchips were not as good as your company because they were cheaper, so if you're going to comment about another tuner, you have to expect some sort of comment back.

Edited 2 December, 200817 yr by cheezemonkhai

Right gentlemen, before this gets out of hand lets try and bring in some clarity and draw a line underneath it.

As I understand it the prices that Will (P-Torque) offers his customers are based on the cost to him in terms of development and tooling. Will has tried to explain this, perhaps not as clearly as Mark would like but from what I read this relates to a price of £295 for most VAG Applications however the newer CR TDi will be £495.

Mark, whilst I appreciate you are keen to get the answer you are looking for I think it was already there but perhaps you just couldn't see it and to be honest it is a little academic as you have a PD140 and not a CR.

I can't see where Will has implied that SuperChips is any less able or competent than his company he simply said cheaper is not always better and as SuperChips is normally more expensive you can draw your own inferance from that.

One thing that isn't really mentioned is that not all 'generic' maps are equal. The term generic is normally applied to a map that has been written by a tuner and is applied to a car with little or no adjustment. It is however important to note that a generic map may have been written by anyone, with any degree of capability, and thus you should still pay regard to the tuner you use even for a generic map.

Mark, if you have any specific questions then why not pick up the phone and give Will a call, I'm sure he'll help as he has tried to do so here. To be drawn through the bushes in the manner in which you are doing here can be commercially damaging, Will has tried to help but now things are progressing to the point where harm could be done and I'm sure you wouldn't wish that on him.

I don't wish harm on any individual company least of all right now and I'll admit that Will has been more helpful than most in his answers.

getting back to the original thread, i received an email from superchips yesterday,they have a 20% discount offer on until christmas ! i have just phoned superchips to ask if the software for the CR will be included,they dont think it will be released whilst the offer is on so in other words not this side of christmas.

getting back to the original thread, i received an email from superchips yesterday,they have a 20% discount offer on until christmas ! i have just phoned superchips to ask if the software for the CR will be included,they dont think it will be released whilst the offer is on so in other words not this side of christmas.

I got the same mail and it's a right pi**er waiting on a remap to be released. tick tock, tick tock...