....I was close……

Well, M'lady, according to What Car you were spot on (providing the Beemer was out first. And if it wasn't, then it can lay claim to being The World's First 54.3mpg Sports Car).

Audi TT TDI

Price: £26,350

MPG : 53.3

BHP: 168

Torque lb/ft: 258

0-62: 7.5sec (Audi figure)

BMW 123d SE (Dynamic) 2dr

Price: £24,995

MPG : 54.3

BHP: 201

Torque lb/ft: 295

0-60: 7.0sec

So, the Beemer is cheaper, more economical, faster to 60ish and has more power than the Audi.

And, whatever class of car they are, evidently they are the same, as both appear together in the Coupes section along with other generally-believed-to-be-'sports'-cars, such as the Nissan 350Z V6.

And I'm up for that kissing-and-making-up malarkey.

Just so long as no-one tries to slip me the tongue. :P

Like that!

Can't believe that this thread is still going! Don't you have anything better to do [like discussing which minor tweak will give you 0.001 bhp more!] than arguing over the claims of the Audi marketing department!

I think there is an argument over what is a sports car. Personal I would go with the definition of a car that is designed from the outset to put a sports aesthetic and performance above out and out practicality. Hence many two seater cars such as the Lotus Elise or even the MGF being described as sports cars but even cars like the 350Z and RX8 slip in to the definition.

Therefore Fabia VRS is not a sports car. The Fabia was not originally designed to be "sporty" or "hot" but with the VRS they "dressed [the Fabia] in the tinsel of performance" and didn't even go overboard with that! As much as I like/dislike mine it is debatable whether it is even a hot hatch. You seem to need 200bhp to get into McDonalds car park at night these days, so it's probably just a warm hatch, sad to many of you but probably true:(.

Are the Audi TT or BMW 1 Series Coupe sports cars? I think that's a debatable point but I think the TT is slightly closer to my definition than the Beemer even though several like for like versions of the Beamer would have a better performance or be sportier. The 1 Series Coupe is just a Coupe version of the hatch and in that conversion it does not gain much sportness or loose much practicality, therefore it is small coupe not a sports car.

Is the TT a coupe or a sports car? The MK1 TT was sporty looking but the performance was not much up on the equivalent Golf but it did sacrifice practicality (has anyone tried to sit in the back seats). The MK2 attributes are similar but it does perform that little bit better than the equivalent Golf in my experience. It certainly isn't as hot hatch as mentioned (above) but I think it could be both a sports car and a coupe .

Either way the TT and BMW are fine cars and both far superior to the Fabia but then they should be as they cost twice as much. If I had a choice out of the three mentioned above, I'd probably choose the Beemer because despite not being a "sports car" according to my definition it probably does have a sportier drive and is also fairly practical. The Audi's looks are much better IMHO and the Audi interiors are sooooo nice (don't think that Decron sensed the irnony in my above posts!).

That’s my two pennies worth! Troll all you want Mr Wobblytickle, I can’t see you.

Can't believe that this thread is still going!... Don't you have anything better to do [like discussing which minor tweak will give you 0.001 bhp more!] than arguing over the claims of the Audi marketing department!...

You must have missed this:

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/audi-tt-tall-tale-tdi/124290/2/#post1451617

Edited 5 October, 200817 yr by Mr Wobblytickle

I think its rather generally accepted on here the Fabia VRS isnt a hot hatch.

In standard guise its one of the quicker "warm hatches" - a remap and rear anti roll bar puts it into the slower hot hatch category.

I think its rather generally accepted on here the Fabia VRS isnt a hot hatch.

Indeed.

And that's why the comparison tickled me (especially with the Furb on top).

I just didn't think that I'd have to s-p-e-l-l it out.

Some folks on here are way too serious and need to take a rage dump.

Still, say what you like about this thread, it's certainly been well read.

I cant wait for the " Is the R10 a sports car" threads....

I cant wait for the " Is the R10 a sports car" threads....

I would say NO, based on this pic, handles like it's on rails maybe

R10 car #3184 pictures from trains photos on webshots

I think you will find the R10 fits into the ‘Sports SUV’ category or perhaps the ‘Almost a real, but we feel not quite, because of it’s engine, Sports Car’ category.

As for the 123D couple being more or less a hatch, i don't think this is true. as said before a lot of the meal is different and the suspension is reworked to accommodate the wider tracks. the transmission and much of the interior is from the hatch though, but the TT is similar to the A3 and Golf for that matter. I would have like the Coupe (it has a much bigger boot than the hatch), but couldn't afford it.

Oh and the 123 D's 0-60 is around 6.7 seconds (not that this is a true arbiter of performance)

I would say NO, based on this pic, handles like it's on rails maybe

R10 car #3184 pictures from trains photos on webshots

And it's got too many seats.

I think there is an argument over what is a sports car. Personal I would go with the definition of a car that is designed from the outset to put a sports aesthetic and performance above out and out practicality. Hence many two seater cars such as the Lotus Elise or even the MGF being described as sports cars but even cars like the 350Z and RX8 slip in to the definition.

This sounds about right to me in the modern sense of the phrase ‘Sports Car’. I drove the 350 quite a bit when it first came out and have to say I loved it. It wasn’t that fast really and its grip levels didn’t do anything a decent hatch would do. But it did feel a little special, made a lovely noise (I drove with the windows down most of the time) and the handling felt great in an old fashioned way. I loved it and think it is at the least a Sports Coupe. It isn’t a light and delicate thing to drive, but none the worse for that imho. it also made my arms ache a little after a couple of hours. I would certainly have one and prefer it to the RX8 too.

Slightly off topic sorry. Perhaps I should start a new thread to determine the modern meaning of what is a Sports car? Perhaps with a Poll?

Can we all kiss and make up?

{Amanda}xx

HTH

Surely the term for them should be 'performance diesel' and not 'sports car'?

The only TRUE Diesel sports cars out there are the ones racing Lemans and Touring cars (VAG and Peugeot) and thats because they are on the track.

Which makes the 908HDi and R10 TDi "racing cars", because they were purpose designed for racing and nothing else. Other than the non-factory rally Golf TDis, Furbie vRS and the like, I seriously doubt that you could find any of these "diesel sports cars" which are road-registered, never mind capable of taking a couple away for 2 weeks actually enjoyable touring holiday.

Track cars which are also sports cars might include, as examples, the Porsche 911 Carerra RS2.7, Ferrari 250 GTO and 250 SWB, Jaguar C and D types, all of which were designed to be acceptable fast road cars but track capable.