Should be the CR. Better emissions for a start.

Yeah, I also only go for low-emission engines.

Actually, not so long ago, PD engines had lower emissions than CRs.

However, with evermore strict emission laws on the horizon, developing the CR technology further has some 'advantages', cost being one of them:

VOLKSWAGEN to retire Pumpe-Duese Technology (2007) - TDIClub Forums

Also, IIRC, PD engines tend to be 'torquier' than their CR equivalents.

Both cars can no doubt meet their targets in the Lab, but in the real world the two just don’t as don’t any other cars I have had the pleasure of driving………..or is that just my driving?

It also depends on when you define the point of a Diesel being a sports car, or indeed what the definition of a Sports car is. Is it a Convertible? A car that can crack a 100mph in under 20 seconds? A top speed of 150mph? who knows. But in testing by magazines the 123D is more economical than the Audi, has as already mentioned low emissions and is an amazing engine. I would say the straight line performance is similar to a 175bhp Fabia in broad terms and the top speed perhaps a little higher. I will wait to see if the VAG 200bhp engine is better when it appears next year, if it is, then we are all winners as competition strengthens the breed.

Good points, well made.

Really makes one wonder then how Audi can print such claims over two glossy pages in a respected motor mag? :confused:

Nope, not false advertising at all. Audi's tagline is 'the world's first 50mpg sportscar'.

So firstly, even if a BMW exceeds 50mpg there isn't a problem. They could use the tagline 'the world's first 54.3mpg sportscar', for example. And anyway, the 123d is still a hatchback primarily, rather than a sportscar, even if it is a damn good vehicle. Maybe there might be more issue and argument if BMW dropped the 2.0d twin-turbo or even the 3.0d twin-turbo into the Z4. I would also expect BMW to be more efficient anyway. The amount of work and design that's gone into their 'Efficient Dynamics' system will bring its advantages.

Steve

Wikipedia puts it pretty concisely:

"A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile. The exact definition varies, but generally it is used to refer to a low to ground, light weight vehicle with a powerful engine. Most vehicles referred to as sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for more precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger space, comfort, and fuel economy."

The Skoda Fabia vRS need not apply.

Nope, not false advertising at all. Audi's tagline is 'the world's first 50mpg sportscar'.

Sorry, bud, but I think you need new specs.

Or just specs, even.

Check the advert again, if you will.

And who says a sports car can't have a hatch?

Hang about, the TT has one and it's a sports car, apparently.

Nope, not false advertising at all. Audi's tagline is 'the world's first 50mpg sportscar'.

So firstly, even if a BMW exceeds 50mpg there isn't a problem. They could use the tagline 'the world's first 54.3mpg sportscar', for example. And anyway, the 123d is still a hatchback primarily, rather than a sportscar, even if it is a damn good vehicle. Maybe there might be more issue and argument if BMW dropped the 2.0d twin-turbo or even the 3.0d twin-turbo into the Z4. I would also expect BMW to be more efficient anyway. The amount of work and design that's gone into their 'Efficient Dynamics' system will bring its advantages.

Steve

The Coupe is different to the Hatch. It has a wider track and I think it is different in it’s panels from the A pillar. The interior is pretty similar though.

I still think that calling a car a Sports car is a pretty risky thing, especially if it takes around 18+ seconds to hit a ton. I would call the 335D a Sports car though (in coupe form). I have driven a 330D Saloon and I was very impressed with that, although it felt more like a very quick GT

Wikipedia puts it pretty concisely:

"A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile. The exact definition varies, but generally it is used to refer to a low to ground, light weight vehicle with a powerful engine. Most vehicles referred to as sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for more precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger space, comfort, and fuel economy."

The Skoda Fabia vRS need not apply.

Cool.

The 123D is a sports car then!

Didn’t a Sports car have to be a convertible in the olden days?

Didn’t a Sports car have to be a convertible in the olden days?

According to some people yes.

But then at least some of those people would claim that a Triumph Herald 12/50 convertible was a "sports car" and a Porsche 911 Carrera 2.7RS (either version) wasn't. Other than low speed posing on a hot Summer day, I know which I'd rather be driving though, and it's not the Herald!

Wikipedia puts it pretty concisely:

"A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile. The exact definition varies, but generally it is used to refer to a low to ground, light weight vehicle with a powerful engine. Most vehicles referred to as sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for more precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger space, comfort, and fuel economy."

The Skoda Fabia vRS need not apply.

Ive got that all down minus the RWD

Terrible isn't it.

He regurgitates stuff already posted and when anyone tries to discuss the point or brings up the fact he contradicts himself and often gets things wrong he will try to tie the poster up by splitting hairs over the smallest of details which will then result in tennis match tit for tat point scoring.

Leave him well alone as he will just try to wind you up. Better still add him to your ignore list, it's what I did and now his posts are irrelevent.

Thanks for the tip, will do

Clever or not, I was simply answering the question actually being asked :

"is the tt (you know, the TDI, not any other variant) 4wd??"

Terrible isn't it.

He regurgitates stuff already posted and when anyone tries to discuss the point or brings up the fact he contradicts himself and often gets things wrong he will try to tie the poster up by splitting hairs over the smallest of details which will then result in tennis match tit for tat point scoring.

Leave him well alone as he will just try to wind you up. Better still add him to your ignore list, it's what I did and now his posts are irrelevent.

OK, Decron, I'll come down to your level, if but for a moment.

So, I allegedly 'regurgitate stuff already posted'?

What exactly and where?

Point me to the post/s.

When have I contradicted myself?

Point me to the post/s.

When have I often got things wrong?

Point me to the post/s.

All the above are possible, as I am but a fallible human, often write one-handed, in the early hours, my six-week-old daughter sleeping on my shoulder after a feed, but I genuinely can't remember committing such heinous crimes.

I admit I may have tied-up 'a poster', oo-er missus, on occasion.

Hang on, that poster is you, isn't it?

Must have been something to do with your poor tone and subsequent challenge near the start of this meant-to-be-light-hearted-and-a-bit-of-fun thread, I guess:

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/audi-tt-tall-tale-tdi/124290/#post1451124

and

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/audi-tt-tall-tale-tdi/124290/#post1451482

You'll be glad to know that I'm over it now.

But are you over getting shown up repeatedly yet?:

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/audi-tt-tall-tale-tdi/124290/#post1451524

and

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/audi-tt-tall-tale-tdi/124290/#post1451557

and

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/wobblytickle-nipple-mate/121861/2/#post1455496

Evidently not.

Is this still going?

Give it a rest will you!

Thanks,

Steve.

Can we all kiss and make up?

Can we all kiss and make up?

Pucker up then love, let's get the foreplay over with

Pucker up then love, let's get the foreplay over with

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

ooh laa laa whats going on here

This is the dating thread……………………oops no it isn’t, it’s about Sporting Diesels and their place in the pantheons of motoring history........I was close…………………sorry:O

Surely the term for them should be 'performance diesel' and not 'sports car'?

The only TRUE Diesel sports cars out there are the ones racing Lemans and Touring cars (VAG and Peugeot) and thats because they are on the track.

All 'fast' diesels on road are not a patch on these cars and not worthy of the same title.

The Fabia vRS is a great little car for power and economy, but straight out the box its terible for handling and needs better brakes to keep up with the bigger brands.

For ride height alone it would be better described as SUV :lol:

Surely the term for them should be 'performance diesel' and not 'sports car'?

The only TRUE Diesel sports cars out there are the ones racing Lemans and Touring cars (VAG and Peugeot) and thats because they are on the track.

All 'fast' diesels on road are not a patch on these cars and not worthy of the same title.

The Fabia vRS is a great little car for power and economy, but straight out the box its terible for handling and needs better brakes to keep up with the bigger brands.

For ride height alone it would be better described as SUV :lol:

A touring car isn’t a Sports car, it’s a ‘Touring car’, well it isn’t a Sports car if something like the 335D isn’t.

I mean its a sports car by the very fact it is on the track partacking in a sport.

The Vrs and the TT are Hatchbacks, so they must be termed as 'Hot hatches' surely?

In all honesty, as good as diesel cars are these days, very few meet the characteristics of a sports car.

Yes, but I believe by the definitions discussed earlier in this thread, some Diesels are Sports Cars. I personally don’t think just because a few manufacturers get together to race and therefore promote their product, it automatically makes their car a Sports Car either.

Yes, but I believe by the definitions discussed earlier in this thread, some Diesels are Sports Cars. I personally don’t think just because a few manufacturers get together to race and therefore promote their product, it automatically makes their car a Sports Car either.

Good point.

I think its fair to say that the vRS doesn't come into this category, and i'm doubtfull the TT does either.

I don’t think my car is a Sports car either:(, but a few diesels are so quick and really handle that they should be taken seriously. If only they sounded better:(:(:(