Wheel Alignment the big con!

[wheels-inmotion]

That's why I am asking the question. Is it even possible to correct a problem with the mk1.

Yes it is but this would only mask the real reason for the problem?

Historically a fixed beam is more forgiving if the angles are incorrect, if the tyre wear or handling is impaired then you really have to find out why rather than blindly adjust around it.

[KenONeill]

Yes it is but this would only mask the real reason for the problem?

Historically a fixed beam is more forgiving if the angles are incorrect, if the tyre wear or handling is impaired then you really have to find out why rather than blindly adjust around it.

I wouldn't completely agree with this; a beam is only forgiving if it's normal to the longitudinal axis; you tend to get crabbing if the beam axis is wrong.

[wheels-inmotion]

Sorry but that has just gone straight over my head.

I don't know if my car has an issue.

Are you saying that no it's not worth it but I will get a print out of any problem. It's just that I will not be able to do anything about it.

I'm not doubting your abilities at all here, just want to know if my car can be improved.

Confussed of Chaythum.

Sorry.... I struggle to explain my thoughts...

In answer a full Geometry will image the entire chassis, even if some areas in distress cannot be corrected, simply knowing could change the way the adjustable angles are set, so yes the problem can be improved.

[wheels-inmotion]

I wouldn't completely agree with this; a beam is only forgiving if it's normal to the longitudinal axis; you tend to get crabbing if the beam axis is wrong.

Agreed but the beam can be moved (slightly) to improve the thrust angle or the thrust measurement can be turned off if the position exceeds 12'.

[Delcac]

Sorry.... I struggle to explain my thoughts...

In answer a full Geometry will image the entire chassis, even if some areas in distress cannot be corrected, simply knowing could change the way the adjustable angles are set, so yes the problem can be improved.

Thanks for that.

Once I get the corner weights sorted I will booked the car in.

[Stuart_J]

Thanks for that.

Once I get the corner weights sorted I will booked the car in.

Des. Not sure if you have somewhere in mind. If not consider Powerstation in Cheltenham. They have vast experience in setting up race & rally cars

They have set all my cars up & do IMO a stunning job. Tell them what you are looking for in the handling & they will aim towards that. Also discuss what tyre wear you can tolerate. Better cornering can be achieved if the camber adjustments there & you are happy to sacrifice tyre wear.

If you want to be super accurate sit in the car + passenger if you normally run with one, it makes a small difference, Ive sat on the ramp for an hour before with a "loaned" passenger

[Delcac]

Des. Not sure if you have somewhere in mind. If not consider Powerstation in Cheltenham. They have vast experience in setting up race & rally cars

They have set all my cars up & do IMO a stunning job. Tell them what you are looking for in the handling & they will aim towards that. Also discuss what tyre wear you can tolerate. Better cornering can be achieved if the camber adjustments there & you are happy to sacrifice tyre wear.

If you want to be super accurate sit in the car + passenger if you normally run with one, it makes a small difference, Ive sat on the ramp for an hour before with a "loaned" passenger

Corner weight set up is not a problem; it's the geometry equipment that is the problem.

[KenONeill]

Ah, corner weights - there's another potentially specious idea for a road car!

IMO they potentially vary too much with load to be worth bothering with, unless you have a "typical load" the car wants setting up with. If you're not convinced about that, compare your weight with your car's maximum payload!

[Stuart_J]

Corner weight set up is not a problem; it's the geometry equipment that is the problem.

Give Dirk or Rich a ring at Powerstation & chat things through with them. Ive had 4 allignments done by them, one on the scoob & 3 on the Octy, always left through the twisties & had a big smile when I got home

PowerStation

[Delcac]

Ah, corner weights - there's another potentially specious idea for a road car!

IMO they potentially vary too much with load to be worth bothering with, unless you have a "typical load" the car wants setting up with. If you're not convinced about that, compare your weight with your car's maximum payload!

My car is not really a road car nor does it carry loads. Maximum payloads don't really come into it.

Most of the weight saving has come from the back with lots of weight in the front.

[Delcac]

Give Dirk or Rich a ring at Powerstation & chat things through with them. Ive had 4 allignments done by them, one on the scoob & 3 on the Octy, always left through the twisties & had a big smile when I got home

PowerStation

I will do.

[KenONeill]

My car is not really a road car nor does it carry loads. Maximum payloads don't really come into it.

Most of the weight saving has come from the back with lots of weight in the front.

In which case you probably can sensibly set corner weights if you normally run 1up or 2up (but remember you'll be a ways out as soon as a left-seater gets in or out [as appropriate]), if you have adjustable spring perches (preferably with separate ride height and preload adjusters).

[Delcac]

In which case you probably can sensibly set corner weights if you normally run 1up or 2up (but remember you'll be a ways out as soon as a left-seater gets in or out [as appropriate]), if you have adjustable spring perches (preferably with separate ride height and preload adjusters).

You don't know me or this car very well do.

[RichB86]

sorry i may have missed this but can anyone recommend anyone in the Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire area? i use APS in Brackley generally but just wondering who else there is out there?

also i managed to hit something a bit hard the other day and now have a light pull on the wheel and noticed a bit more wear on one tyre so what should i be getting checked?

cheers

[wheels-inmotion]

sorry i may have missed this but can anyone recommend anyone in the Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire area? i use APS in Brackley generally but just wondering who else there is out there?

also i managed to hit something a bit hard the other day and now have a light pull on the wheel and noticed a bit more wear on one tyre so what should i be getting checked?

cheers

You need the full chassis checked to be safe... If you type your postcode into this site > www.AlignMyCar.co.uk it will find the closest centre to you that uses the Hunter machine.

The Hunter is a serious piece of kit and not for the idiots out there.

[Stuart_J]

You need the full chassis checked to be safe... If you type your postcode into this site > www.AlignMyCar.co.uk it will find the closest centre to you that uses the Hunter machine.

The Hunter is a serious piece of kit and not for the idiots out there.

Serious Kit still needs a competent operator, Get a recomendation as well

[wheels-inmotion]

Serious Kit still needs a competent operator, Get a recomendation as well

Wise words indeed.

One of the reasons for this thread was to explain the industry is totally unregulated in this area. Anyone can set your car even though if done wrong you could leave this world at the next roundabout, or maybe just stuff the tyres in a few thousand miles if your lucky.

The multi-million pound industry called "fast-fit" does not understand Geometry..... How many members here who have had issues with tyre wear or handling have been told "your tracking's wrong mate?"

"Tracking".... what's that?... Do they mean "Alignment?".. if yes then what are they aligning the wheels to?

I cannot educate fast-fit but i can educate you, so that if needed you are in the position to ask "what are you aligning my front wheels to?"

The answer should be "the centre of the rear" or thrust angle. If they say "each other" grab your keys and run.

[anewman]

Is full geometry still useful on an older car where only the track rod ends are adjustable? I had previously assumed because the other things are not adjustable, there's no point in measuring them.

[Stuart_J]

Is full geometry still useful on an older car where only the track rod ends are adjustable? I had previously assumed because the other things are not adjustable, there's no point in measuring them.

The answer has IMO to be yes if you are experiencing poor tyre wear or poor handling. It can only help to diagnose the problem. It might be the cars not straight after previous bad accident repairs. If it points to this then its a full allignment check on a jig in a bodyshop.

A friend runs a bodyshop & was asked to investigate a stretched Limo that was handling poorly ( I thought they all would !) & wouldnt align properly. It had had a big smack in the front corner, the angle of the strut was somewhat out & the wheel was 3/4 inch further back than the other side.

[wheels-inmotion]

Is full geometry still useful on an older car where only the track rod ends are adjustable? I had previously assumed because the other things are not adjustable, there's no point in measuring them.

Yes without question.... There are fifteen main angles to the car with wheel alignment being one of them, you cannot assume wheel alignment is the culprit even if it is wrong.

You could get a full image of the chassis and if only the front toe is adjustable (adjusted) for £40+, but at least you know the toe "is" the reason for the complaint.

Prices vary around the UK but £40 is a fair price.

[KenONeill]

Is full geometry still useful on an older car where only the track rod ends are adjustable? I had previously assumed because the other things are not adjustable, there's no point in measuring them.

I'd say so. A bent wishbone could put the camber and castor out, and give you bad tyre wear even with a "correct" toe angle.

[riph72]

I'd like to add that I've had help from Tony (WIM) with my MX-5 in the past, he:

1) Phoned the garage (Toyota, Swansea) to speak to them to gauge their competence before my visit

2) Analysed my alignment printouts for me following my first visit and deemed the alignment worthless

3) Phoned Toyota to guide the technician(s) through the process of setting up the car following them having some difficulties performing the alignment to spec, which turned out to be due to a bent arm on the machine (the technicians originally blamed my car but Tony was having none of it, argueing that you can adjust out fairly major chassis problems if you know what you are doing)

Needless to say, I was extremely grateful for his (free) help!!

To Toyota's credit, they stuck with it and got it sorted in the end, so I'd recommend them if you are in the area, they proved to be a good bunch. Mention Tony and I reckon they will do a good job too

[galthop]

This thread looks to b just what I need.

A few months ago I had the front passenger side CV boot replaced on my mark 1 octaiva tdi. Since then, the tyre on that side wears on the outside edge. I've been told (by a competent mechanic/MOT tester) that everything was not put back as it should have been and that I need to get the castor and camber reset as well as getting the tracking checked. (He wasn't saying this to sell me a service as they don't do it)

As you can tell from this post, I don't really know what all this means, however I do need some new tyres and I'd like to get the alignments sorted out before I wear away new tyres.

The alignmycar website show the nearest place to me is:

Ninemeister Ltd

Unit 23 Bank Key Trade Est

WARRINGTON

WA1 1PJ

Does anyone have any opinion of them?

What service should I ask for?

I'll give them a call for a price once I know what I need doing.

[KenONeill]

Galthop, get the wishbone balljoints and bushes checked. If they're all ok, then proceed to the geometry check, but I think this might just be a tracking issue. Also, from Warrington, I'd ask AwesomeGTi for an opinion on where to go for a competent full gemetry check.

[wheels-inmotion]

This thread looks to b just what I need.

A few months ago I had the front passenger side CV boot replaced on my mark 1 octaiva tdi. Since then, the tyre on that side wears on the outside edge. I've been told (by a competent mechanic/MOT tester) that everything was not put back as it should have been and that I need to get the castor and camber reset as well as getting the tracking checked. (He wasn't saying this to sell me a service as they don't do it)

As you can tell from this post, I don't really know what all this means, however I do need some new tyres and I'd like to get the alignments sorted out before I wear away new tyres.

The alignmycar website show the nearest place to me is:

Ninemeister Ltd

Unit 23 Bank Key Trade Est

WARRINGTON

WA1 1PJ

Does anyone have any opinion of them?

What service should I ask for?

I'll give them a call for a price once I know what I need doing.

The camber and castor on the front is fixed so you need to ask for a full Geometry. Reason being "Tracking" is a symmetrical angle so if this is wrong both tyres would wear, secondly a full Geometry will allow triangulation and find the damaged component.

If the wear involves around 10% of the tyres total width and it's on the tread area then the criminal is camber, if the wear is about the same coverage but rolls onto the sidewall then the criminal is castor.

In both cases the car tends to pull?