The thing is most people on the road are fisters, I was nearly taken out this evening by a teenage girl who indicated to come of a roundabout at the exit to the right of mine.

She steered towards her exit so I pulled out, then she changed her mind, still indicating left and accelerated right at me. Then did an emergency stop on the roundabout, blocking the whole thing.

I faeconated myself.

So, looking back on this experience, what could you have done differently to avoid it happening?

Chris

So, looking back on this experience, what could you have done differently to avoid it happening?

Chris

I can think of several things that might have been done differently, but let's "wait and see" for the OP's take on them first.

Chris, found this thread which is relevant to what we were discussing earlier in this one

http://briskoda.net/racing-advanced-driving-techniques/myth-stop-distance-you-can-see-discuss/81502/

With the traingle vs banana overtaking manouvers I do agree that the triangle is better and safer, but if you have a less powerful car *koff* mine *koff koff* you must "do" the banana in order to get up the speed differential to overtake on NSL roads, I find. Knowing the road helps a lot because when you know there is an overtaking spot coming up, you can drop back a bit in order to get a little bit of a run-up, as it where

You might be surprised how little difference to the distance you need to cover to complete an overtake a bit of extra power makes. Yes, your "time exposed to danger" reduces, but your final speed is higher, which means that you cover more distance in each second exposed.

Assuming a straightish road, how about performing the triangle over a longer distance? Ie, move offside early to maximise your view ahead and do the catch phase on the offside? If things change, you can always tuck back in and then move back out again when it's safe to.

Chris

I guess what I do is a sort of amalgamation of the two - if I was to be at the same speed, move over and then decide to go or not, I would certainly run out of road before the car picks up enough speed to make the manoeuvre (the road is straight, but not too long ) so I drop back, get my run up and then move to the overtaking position with some space before the car in front to see if the road is clear. if not I can move back in and decelerate gently, if it is, I already have the speed differential to overtake safely and quickly.

You might be surprised how little difference to the distance you need to cover to complete an overtake a bit of extra power makes. Yes, your "time exposed to danger" reduces, but your final speed is higher, which means that you cover more distance in each second exposed.

Assuming my car takes, say 10 seconds* 40 - 60 and I stop accelerating at 60, surely it is still considerably better if I can do the 40 - 60 in 5 seconds*, and have the higher speed differential for much longer? If I where to pull out and hoof it of course you would be completely right - the faster car would be traveling much faster by the end of the overtake.

*numbers out of thin air

I guess what I do is a sort of amalgamation of the two - if I was to be at the same speed, move over and then decide to go or not, I would certainly run out of road before the car picks up enough speed to make the manoeuvre (the road is straight, but not too long ) so I drop back, get my run up and then move to the overtaking position with some space before the car in front to see if the road is clear. if not I can move back in and decelerate gently, if it is, I already have the speed differential to overtake safely and quickly.

If you have space to depreciate gently, does that mean you're making the commitment to overtake much earlier than you need to? Remember, the later the decision, the more information you have

One thing I see a lot when I'm sat in the passenger seat (and something I was guilty of myself) is that the decision to overtake tends to happen half way down a straight, rather than being planned to occur where the straight starts. This means from the outset you're shooting yourself in the foot by halving the available space. So the key is to look ahead for potential opportunities and be in position and in the right gear ready to take advantage of an overtaking opportunity when it arrives rather than allowing it to arrive and then closing the gap and finding a gear to take advantage of it....

Chris

If I am being tailgated on minor roads I signal left and pull over (on a safe stretch) to alow the tailgater to pass. They shoot off and I carry on without them filling my mirror.

However, there is a situation I am not sure about. It happens every now and then, and it happened yesterday once again, so I am here for a bit of guidance.

Fast de-restricted A road, fairly narrow with many gentle curves. I am travelling at 60 in my Fabia vRS and have a Citroen C4 tailgating me. He wants to get past. Pulling over is not an option as the road is narrow and bendy. He is filling my mirror and 'pushing' me to go faster.

I just have to travel and suffer his presence, which is making me feel in danger.

Eventually, he overtakes on some right hand turn hatchings, sending dirt and stones showering over my car:mad:. After a few miles I catch him up behind a convoy of slower cars so his efforts were wasted.

So, when tailgated by morons on fast A-roads, what is the best thing to do in future?

Ian

slow right down so the bxxxstard knows your not gona be pushed then if he trys pass ya show um what a furbys torques like and shower him in soot! do this a couple of times and they will begin to wait patiently. lol

Do you mean that I should have waited until she was definitely off the roundabout?

I always do that, years of HGV driving have made me very careful at junctions and such.

I only mentioned this case because although I do the above at every roundabout, in this case she was what I would call totally committed to her exit.

She came off the main road indicating left in the left lane and entered the road.

It is a tree lined avenue with a grass verge in between the two lanes. The grass ends 12 to 15 meters short of the roundabout leaving a gap that is marked out with solid white hatching.

She then cut right, across the hatching and out in front of me as I pulled out.

I was shocked, I'll tell you.

I have done a poor drawing here, my route in blue, intended in blue dotted.

Her route in red, -I cut her arrow short because it was making my drawing look a bit untidy- if she had been anywhere near the pink I wouldn't have pulled out, even if she was indicating left.

The worst thing was that as I pulled out she was almost behind me and in my peripheral vision so as she came past me it was a shock.

I don't mean to moan,I am just in a bit of a mood this week, I have been nearly killed 3 times this week riding my bike into work.

On the same road no less.

I have my high vis vest and all the required reflectors and such, I think I must just be invisible.

I just get wound up with people using the excuse "I didn't see you".

Do you mean that I should have waited until she was definitely off the roundabout?

I can't suggest answers as I wasn't there The question is really to try and look back at the situation for signs that might have helped avoid it ... after all if you can avoid it, then everyone is happy

A few things that might be worth considering:

- What was the "chassis language" of the car?

- Where was the driver looking?

- Was there any indication that she hadn't picked the right exit?

- At what point did you know she'd changed her mind?

- Could you have let her know about her bad decision earlier?

Chris

Good questions.

"chassis language" she was committed to the turn as far as I could tell.

I know she was looking into the road she started to turn into, that is something I always check, it's a great help.

No indication while I was still looking at her, there has to be a point you are satisfied it is safe to move of and start paying attention to the road ahead.

I got the "spidey sense" peripheral vision cold sweat thing, at that point I stood on the brake, instinct, not a considered thing.

Possibly, I think it might be my British reserve but I never think to use the horn.

If I had to guess which I don't like doing I would say she turned into the road with the intention of doing a "u" turn a bit further down the road, saw the centre reservation was blocked and did it a lot sooner than she intended. Found herself heading for me and went evasive in the same direction I was going.

Meh, no real harm done. Just a scary one.

slow right down so the bxxxstard knows your not gona be pushed then if he trys pass ya show um what a furbys torques like and shower him in soot! do this a couple of times and they will begin to wait patiently. lol

Or this will infuriate the other driver - when you then stop at the next set of lights and they are behind you, they might decide to vent their frustration on you by pulling you out of your car and beating you to a bloody pulp by the roadside.

Personally I'd advocate letting them overtake and getting on with it, rather than trying to prove a point. There are some absolute psychos out there who carry knives and guns in their cars, and you have no idea whether the person you're provoking happens to be one of them.

Rob.

An example of just such a scary moment was the subject of much discussion on another forum recently.

Good questions.

"chassis language" she was committed to the turn as far as I could tell.

I know she was looking into the road she started to turn into, that is something I always check, it's a great help.

No indication while I was still looking at her, there has to be a point you are satisfied it is safe to move of and start paying attention to the road ahead.

I got the "spidey sense" peripheral vision cold sweat thing, at that point I stood on the brake, instinct, not a considered thing.

Possibly, I think it might be my British reserve but I never think to use the horn.

So just focussing on her commitment to the turn. There was 12-15 metres of hatching where she could do her "U turn". The average car is 4 metres long. At what point along the 12-15 metres do you think she changed her mind to enable her to steer through the hatchings and back onto the roundabout?

Btw, you can get over the aggressiveness of the horn by doing shorter, successive beeps rather than just leaning on it, although sometimes that's necessary

If I had to guess which I don't like doing I would say she turned into the road with the intention of doing a "u" turn a bit further down the road, saw the centre reservation was blocked and did it a lot sooner than she intended. Found herself heading for me and went evasive in the same direction I was going.

Do you think that guess is based on signs you saw, signs you subconsciously saw ("spidey sense?" ) or the actual outcome of what she did?

Chris

To be fair to ASM, there are times when no amount of analysing the nuts off something after the fact will do any good. The other motorist did something completely unexpected. He avoided a collision. Well done him. As far as I'm concerned, he did what was required in the circumstances.

Discuss ...

To be fair to ASM, there are times when no amount of analysing the nuts off something after the fact will do any good. The other motorist did something completely unexpected. He avoided a collision. Well done him. As far as I'm concerned, he did what was required in the circumstances.

Absolutely agree. But maybe there was something which could help him spot the run up to it which would be useful next time? After all, everytime that roundabout is approached in the future, the focus will be looking for the car about to do a U-turn which is likely to impede progress. Being able to identify any early signs may help with the decision making process

Of course, it may not

Chris

Just a guess based on the outcome of what she did, to be honest I can't imagine a reason to do what she did. That is a close as I could get to one.

The thing I will change at that roundabout in future is the attitude of my car, I always drive up to it with my right side on the while line and then steer left a bit just before the roundabout. I am still in my lane but I don't have to steer as much to miss the island.

In future I will stay parallel to the centre line and that will allow me to see farther into the lane to my right while I am stopped.

On the original topic I went for a drive down to Bognor yesterday and because I was in convoy with the father-in-law's Omega estate we were driving a bit slower than the road could support.

I got a tailgater and followed the advice from the thread, didn't try to speed up and when I got a bit of a straight I indicated and pulled in tight to the left and slowed right down.

The guy got stuck behind the in-law though.

On the way back I also got an opportunity to try your "triangle" overtake manoeuvre, it gave me a better view of the "landing" of the overtake, worked well with the vRS too, it goes like stink in second at 40.

My wife hated it though, she didn't like driving in the "wrong" lane while we were checking it out.

In future I will stay parallel to the centre line and that will allow me to see farther into the lane to my right while I am stopped.

Sounds like a good choice if it increases your view - it might also open up the view slightly more on approach to

I got a tailgater and followed the advice from the thread, didn't try to speed up and when I got a bit of a straight I indicated and pulled in tight to the left and slowed right down.

The guy got stuck behind the in-law though.

On the way back I also got an opportunity to try your "triangle" overtake manoeuvre, it gave me a better view of the "landing" of the overtake, worked well with the vRS too, it goes like stink in second at 40.

My wife hated it though, she didn't like driving in the "wrong" lane while we were checking it out.

Great news that you could feel a difference It does take some adjustment getting used to being offside but the way to look at it is that it's actually safer as you can see all the danger and make an informed decision. I'm sure she'll get used to you doing it

Chris

I'd agree; off-siding takes a bit of getting used to. IMO it's best practiced until you're confident in situations where you don't really need to do it because your sightline is wide open anyway (eg deserted dual cabbageways and fast but very quiet singles).

used to have most fun with tailgaters when I had my Silvia that overfuelled slightly when backing off...

flames licking across their bonnet tended to make most tailgaters back off...

i just lift off and take them down to 5-10 miles a hour lol

then just to totaly p**s themm off when they go to overtake i plant it and keep them behind me

i dont mind tailgaters,i see them as a new toy to play with

The same question was asked on a speeding awareness course I attended 2 years ago:ashamed:

Various tactics were mooted - most mentioned here ie

*dabbing brakes

*flicking lights to replicate braking

*abusive symbols through back windscreen

etc....

The instructors (IAM + instructors) answer?

"Slow down to ensure you have enough braking room in front of yourself. Do nothing to antagonise the following driver. Look for a suitable place to pull off the road and allow them past. Do NOTHING to antagonise them. Do not become the victim, and do not drive at a speed you arer not comfortable at."

Having said that, I still prefer either the smokescreen disappearance, or the flicking of lights tricks...

PL

Seriously, I give myself a gap to work with, then start practicing "see how far you can drive without using the brakes, or changing gear to slow the car". Tailg!ts frequently back off after they've scared themselves with an unexpectedly rapid rate of approach a few times.

The instructors (IAM + instructors) answer?

"Slow down to ensure you have enough braking room in front of yourself. Do nothing to antagonise the following driver. Look for a suitable place to pull off the road and allow them past. Do NOTHING to antagonise them. Do not become the victim, and do not drive at a speed you arer not comfortable at."

Funnily enough I'm sure I mooted that exact course of action earlier in this thread

delivery van is right up my tailpipe and so I leave enough room between me and car in front so he can safely overtake and I can safely perform overtake manoeuvre. Other than that can't say the tailgater gets a reaction.