To be fair I think it's some advisory group rather than the government itself.

One of the quotes on the video says "Drivers would enjoy not having to think about it [ie their driving] so much". I don't think that encouraging people to think less about driving is a good thing.

Absolutely.

But there are plenty out their at the moment, who are naturally not so situationally and spatially aware as the rest of the driving population, and they are using the current technology, no 1 eyeball and shoulder-mounted "Deepthought" - it has been known for some using this system "Not to see" school zone speed signs and stop lights! Modern aids such as this might help them.

The unscrupulous, of course, might use this technology to mask various incapacities to driving, both in practice and by way of legal defence !

Either way, in anything in between a system with driver's having full authority or, alternatively, no authority at all i.e. passenger, the lawyers are going to be rubbing their hands together once more.

Nick

Edited 30 December, 200817 yr by Clunkclick

I was just about to type that this will never happen as the GPS accuracy currently available to non military is only accurate to <10m or so..........but when Galileo gets launched in approx 2013 they hope that to be <4m and down as much as <10cm with "ground repeaters"............

Of course though, with any radio signal a touch of shielding with an appropriate metal would do the trick.........

Steve

I believe that there is a high accuracy ground-repeater GPS system already available which satisfies the needs of map-makers and surveyors. I think there is reference to that on the Ordnance Survey/Garmin/Fugawi web sites ?

Nick

If you planned your manoeuvre fine then why was the driver you were about to overtake not aware of your presence? Sounds like poor planning to me Continuing without them recognising you're there is a poor decision, imho,

Thats odd, i was under the impression that i was responsible for my own actions not the actions of others. I must have got a poorly specced Fabia without the crystal ball option when i bought mine.

If another driver hasn't sen you (i think this has happened to all of us at some point) what powers do you have to make them see you? if your doing a perfectly safe manouvere and looking at the back of their headrest gives you enough info about what they are about to do next, then you must be the finest driver ever to grace the roads of Great Britain.

Get off your high horse mate, you know exactly what my posts are getting at.... You can drive as safe as possible but that doesn't mean you won't meet a careless driver who takes you off the road.

Taking away the drivers ability to use extra speed (when its appropriate) could end as many lives as it saves.

Thats odd, i was under the impression that i was responsible for my own actions not the actions of others. I must have got a poorly specced Fabia without the crystal ball option when i bought mine.

Tbh, I'd not put myself into a position of potential danger without some confidence I was coming out the other side. If you have enough information that the driver in front of you is on their phone and distracted (drop in speed potentially lost/looking for a turning?), is overtaking them a great idea? You're right, you are responsible for your own actions but your actions should be based on all the available information rather than "I'm in the right"....

If another driver hasn't sen you (i think this has happened to all of us at some point) what powers do you have to make them see you?

Use of headlights, horn or road positioning usually work for me. If you position on the offside of the road without changing speed, you'll be able to see more of the driver and also wait for a reaction, eg see them check mirror, look at you, accelerate, brake lights, etc. If the reaction is positive acknowledge them with a thanks and complete the overtake. If it's not or there's no reaction, just pull back in behind them. More info at http://briskoda.net/racing-advanced-driving-techniques/advanced-overtaking/80274/

if your doing a perfectly safe manouvere and looking at the back of their headrest gives you enough info about what they are about to do next, then you must be the finest driver ever to grace the roads of Great Britain.

See above - why look at the back of a headrest when it doesn't offer any information?! :confused: We'll also have to work on what your definition of safe is, but maybe that's for another thread

Get off your high horse mate, you know exactly what my posts are getting at.... You can drive as safe as possible but that doesn't mean you won't meet a careless driver who takes you off the road.

Again with the word safe. Try stepping back from the me and them mentality and try and look at the situation as a whole. Do your actions have the potential to make the scene unsafe? Yes, someone intent on running you off the road could still do so but they're in the minority. The majority of careless driver accidents are down to people being somewhere that they do not expect. Overcome that and you can improve the safety of the situation.

Taking away the drivers ability to use extra speed (when its appropriate) could end as many lives as it saves.

When have I said I agree with the scheme?! All I'm saying is that it will highlight deficiencies in people's driving which currently "booting it and praying" mask.

Chris

Just heard some bint on the radio talking to Jeremy Vine explaining that if everyone is travelling at a "safe and uniform speed" then there will be no need for overtaking...so I can only assume what she means is that these devices will actually be a form of cruise control and will automatically accelerate to the appropriate speed to stop you dawdling. I like that idea. No more 40-everywhere drivers. Just lots of surprised drivers in ditches.

Extrapolating the line of thought regarding intrusion on the authority of the driver to control the vehicle, I can see the draft administrative order on the desk of the Supreme Leader awaiting authorisation before implementation. The pre-amble might go as follows:-

Under the new driver management system, implemented following the recent Socialised Driver Act, those interested in the "Challenge of driving", will, in addition to the existing Ministry driving Test, be required undertake IQ and personality testing before being permitted to take charge of a vehicle.

On taking charge of the vehicle and before driving-off, the driver will have to select driving mode - passenger mode is the default system setting.

During the first year of driving or on resumption of driving following a period of abstinence or conviction for any driving offences, the driver will have to be accompanied, on all journeys, by an appropriately qualified and registered Driving Social Worker (DSW), as a passenger - the Government Socialised Driving Agency will suply these personnel, against bookings with 3 months notice, at a hourly charge of £100.

The social worker will be empowered to monitor the drivers habits and be able to remove control of the vehicle from the driver and restrict or prohibit further use if inapropriate behaviour is exhibited, at any point during a journey

In the event that the driver successfully completes the 6 month probationary period he will be issued with a certificate, which on application to the SDA and for payment of a fee of £1,000 will be issued with a Socialised Driving Licence (SDL) giving him or her him/her thye right to take unaccompanied charge of a vehicle.

Whilst in charge of a vehicle, the driver's performance will be monitored by the on board Automated Response Selective Evaluation Software (ARSES). Where minor abberations are detected, a full report will fowarded at the end of the journey to the DSW who may then determine to revoke or further restrict the driver's SDL -

the level of penalty to be imposed on the driver may range from "Your garaged for the next two weeks" to Community Service, which could include working in Quick fit for up to 6 Saturdays or servicing an old age pensioner's Toyota Corolla. etc etc.

. . . .oh God I must be bored.

Nick

I remember watching another form of speed limiter similar to this a few years back.

I think its a good idea to stop boy racers tearing around 30/20 zones but like all "technology" it prob can be hacked and worked around.

It'll prob cause a rise in older cars being sold where this technology wouldn't work.

Just heard some bint on the radio talking to Jeremy Vine explaining that if everyone is travelling at a "safe and uniform speed" then there will be no need for overtaking.

Like when there's a HGV stuck at 40 in front of you on a NSL single carriageway....

Duuuuhhh.

Taking away the drivers ability to use extra speed (when its appropriate) could end as many lives as it saves.

Or to paraphrase

Passing some dawdler on a S/C NSL road who's doing 45--

Maximum speed available -60 -result brown pants

Maximum speed 95 , result job done efficiently .

And from what I read on other fora ,traffic BIB do not see this as taking PPP,merely as reducing risk .

And Clunkclick --"Under the new driver management system, implemented following the recent Socialised Driver Act, those interested in the "Challenge of driving", will, in addition to the existing Ministry driving Test, be required undertake IQ and personality testing before being permitted to take charge of a vehicle."

Carefull Gordy hasn't thought of that YET :hooray:

I think every driver should have to make a visit to the 'ring'. If they can't get round it in under 10 minutes they lose their license. That should get 95% of the cars off the roads, reduce congestion, reduce Co2, and make our roads much safer.

Owners of caravans and horse boxes must do the test fully loaded

On a serious note, speed limiters, very BAD idea, 95% of drivers need to concentrate MORE not LESS.

Problem is the test ---a conveyor belt system of getting drivers ready for the UK road system (or alternatively helping them to pass the "test").No thought of future developement in a lot of cases.(Unless you get an Instructor with pride in their standards.)

No thought of "persuading " drivers with experience to show courtesy to learners and "P" DRIVERS .

I routinely go out of my way to show courtesy to learners - to try and get them to see the benefits of this .

Perhaps this is the way HMG should be going - educate drivers to be more polite to other drivers (and fund "driving politeness units " to stop and educate those who fail to do so (with lengthy stops and car checks).(those pushy ones might then learn that being polite saves them more time in the long run )

Having watched the clip on the BBC site, a couple of thoughts sping to mind.

(1) The speed was brought down to below 40MPH in the reported 40MPH zone. Given the speedo on my Octi reads ~5MPH over the actual speed limit (as per GPS, the same system which is used to control the speed) can we trust the authorities to accuratly set the speed limits for the system?

(2) The speed came down very quickly from 60MPH to 40MPH. Assuming you are being followed by a car which is not controlled by the system, and isn't paying as much attention as they should be, how many more rear end shunts are there going to be?

(3) The government will never enforce this to be fitted to all vehicles, as they would loose too much revenue in speeding fines.

How long will this remain voluntary if this current bunch of control freaks remain in power? I am deeply worried by the current monitoring mania that is going on. Satellite monitoring of cars for road pricing, the monitoring of all our emails and phone calls etc. Orwell hit the nail right on the head. I am sick and tired and if they get in again I will seriously consider emigrating.

Best example I can think of here is....

You are doing 29mph on the main road, as you approach the side road to your left you see another car that looks like he's misjudged the junction for whatever reason and is going to over shoot, you have two choices, one you can slam on and hope to miss him or two you can power through and be out of the space before he gets there, with a limiter you have only one option and that's to slam on.

I wonder if these limiters will reduce the amount of sales for cars like the M3/RS4/SLR etc.

It would be a waste of money paying that sort of money for something no faster than a clio 1.2 even if it does get to the NSL alot faster.

saw the news story on tv last night on this, it will have a deactivation button to tempory knock off the speed limiter if you need to boot it out of trouble. but my initial response is it will lead to more and more drivers no concentrating who floor it knowing their car will get up to speed limit and will give less concentration to the roads. im more for a box which sits in the car screaming at the driving if they go 10% or higher over the speed limit fitted.

As usual this system is being thought up by total muppets. Good to see various celebrity drivers and motoring organizations saying it is a bad idea.

As for an over-ride button, so waste a second of reaction time in a tricky situation when every millisecond counts. I think I will start a nationwide car debris clearing service if this system ever goes online.

IMHO the money would be better spent as follows .

1: All drivers who have an accident, should be sent on a ROSPA driving course

2: All drivers caught speeding should be sent on a speed awareness driving course

3: More traffic police, rather than Gatso cameras.

4: Better driving test

All cars have a speed limiter anyway. It's called your right foot. Any individual who cannot co-ordinate brain to foot activity to stick to the speed limit, shouldn't be driving in the first place.

GPS is also extremely unreliable when it snows, if the signal drops out, mass panic as drivers have to start thinking for themselves.

Talking of snow, how many drivers will rely on the speed limiter, thinking it will keep them safe in a 30 zone by doing 30, when in reality they should be driving a lot slower for the prevailing conditions.

We can also argue that the safety camera scheme has been a total waste of time and money if speeds have not been reduced.

Sounds like the thin end of the wedge to me :(

I can think of one good place for this sort of restriction, and that is outside schools.

If every car/bus/bike was limited to 15-20 mph inside school zones then i would agree its a good idea, but its unlikely to be a safety issue, just a revenue issue.

What a load of b*llo*ks this limiter thing is, I would just rip it out.

What you have to realise is that although its marketed as "a speed limiter" it will have other uses for the goverment and insurance companies where if you say you only do 4,000 miles a year but you do 15,000 then the insurance companies can use this black box technology which is linked to satalight/gps technology to suss you out and fleece more money out of you as they will be able to prove where you are and how many miles you has driven..

They introduce this and then you will see the introduction to "pay as you go" motoring

the more you drive the more you pay and the less you drive then the less you pay. I feel in the future we wont pay road tax as say in 10 years all cars will have this technology fitted and then depending on what time of day we use our cars and what roads and how far we travel will generate a monthly statement which we will have to pay instead of road tax.

What a country this is turning into

Mark my words this gets introduced and it will have "other uses" to get more money from the motorist.

I SAY USE PUBLIC TRANSPORT THAT WAY YOU ARE COVERD......

Edited 1 January, 200917 yr by justinbarrow

What you have to realise is that although its marketed as "a speed limiter" it will have other uses for the goverment and insurance companies where if you say you only do 4,000 miles a year but you do 15,000 then the insurance companies can use this black box technology which is linked to satalight/gps technology to suss you out and fleece more money out of you as they will be able to prove where you are and how many miles you has driven..

So it can be used to combat fraud too?

They introduce this and then you will see the introduction to "pay as you go" motoring

Norwich Union already offer something similar for insurance (Norwich Union offers 'pay as you drive' insurance | Money | guardian.co.uk) and I'm guessing pay as you go road pricing would be a much fairer way of charging everyone in proportion to how much they use, rather than a blanket charge which disadvantages low mileage users.

You might find it's the perfect solution to reducing congestion on the roads

Chris

I wouldn't object to pay as you go road pricing if the pricing per mile was based on the quality of the road surface.

I'd quite happily pay 5 pence per mile in tax if the road surface was perfect (like most welsh A roads).

Parting with anything above half a pence per mile for most roads in Herefordshire and Worcestershire would just be taking the p!ss.

I wouldn't object to pay as you go road pricing if the pricing per mile was based on the quality of the road surface.

I'd quite happily pay 5 pence per mile in tax if the road surface was perfect (like most welsh A roads).

Parting with anything above half a pence per mile for most roads in Herefordshire and Worcestershire would just be taking the p!ss.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Pot hole uk lol:rolleyes:

Assuing this system uses an on board digtal map, who will be responsible for updating the maps?. I drive 150 miles through mid wales fairly regularly and between 2 trips, 9 new speed limits were introduced recently ,2 with fixed cameras.So every time a new limit is introduced anywhere in the uk i need a new map .

Im still trying to work out what will be in my room 101 but this government looks more and more likely

Norwich Union already offer something similar for insurance (Norwich Union offers 'pay as you drive' insurance | Money | guardian.co.uk)

Chris

They did , and rapidly ended up stopping it -

Anyway for road pricing all they'd have to do (under the all embracing blanket of road safety ,of course ) is to set up a SPECS systrem on all roads .

They know where you got on .

They know where you went

They know the reg -so they know where to send the bill

They know the time of day

Job done

(All we need now is anal lubricant :rofl:0