I've seen this for years and have no idea why they have to make such a fuss.

I join the M62 (Eastbound) at J11 and head all the way up to Manchester city centre. If I join the M62 at 17:45-ish, I end up getting caught up in bad traffic caused by 5 or police cars and a prison type van who slowly move down the outside lane making everyone else move over. They head up the M62/M602 where they turn left toward Salford at the Regent Road lights. This has been happening for years and I've also seen them make the smae trip out of manchester at 09:15 in the morning.

Any police-types know what they're doing and why they have to make such a fuss? Where have they been and where are they going to?

Court to prison daily transport or similar?

^ Makes sense.

Sound like a "Cat A" prisoner convoy. They will used the outside lane as it minimises the chance of the convoy being attacked, as it is one side of the van that does not need the ARV next ot it. They will be transporting some realy nasty bugger in the van, hence all the ARV's and traffic cars.

Sound like a "Cat A" prisoner convoy. They will used the outside lane as it minimises the chance of the convoy being attacked, as it is one side of the van that does not need the ARV next ot it. They will be transporting some realy nasty bugger in the van, hence all the ARV's and traffic cars.

How many instances are there of prison transport vans being attacked?

When I've seen them in the mornings, the ARVs will occupy the middle lane and outside lane but it was not too busy. In the evening its really busy and and they're forcing 3 lanes of traffic to squeeze into 2 lanes as the go past. Yesterday I was sat in the middle lane as they were going past and the lead car had his rear window red LED sign pointing to move over. Surely they don't expect to be able to take over 2 lanes during the rush hour? I wasn't sure if I needed to move over.

Is it really the best way and best time to travel like this?

How many instances are there of prison transport vans being attacked?

Is it really the best way and best time to travel like this?

Probably not that many with armed police all round them, but then that is the idea surely. Im sure you would prefer a mild inconvenience, if it's even that, to your journey than some particularly nasty set of murderers, rapists, arsonists, etc roaming the streets having escaped??

amazed at attack on prison van that the cab did not have armoured glass,Driver attacked under duress the guard in the back had to release the con they wanted, hope they are sorting that now the skally,s know that imfo., I would not be happy driving one now.

Probably not that many with armed police all round them, but then that is the idea surely. Im sure you would prefer a mild inconvenience, if it's even that, to your journey than some particularly nasty set of murderers, rapists, arsonists, etc roaming the streets having escaped??

Its not a mild inconvenience is it though? Hundreds, possibly thousands of people effected everyday, held up in traffic, costing people money, creating an unexpected hazard on a busy motorway. I guess its the case of this is the most cost effective solution for the police/prison service but bugger the rest of the population.

As a member of the public, not privy to police procedures, it does indeed seem like overkill. I can't recall many cases of prisoners being sprung from poilce escort.

Just asking the questions here. When congestion is supposed to be such a big problem round here, is this really the best way to do things?

I've still no idea where they've come from or where they're goign too.

How many instances are there of prison transport vans being attacked?

When I've seen them in the mornings, the ARVs will occupy the middle lane and outside lane but it was not too busy. In the evening its really busy and and they're forcing 3 lanes of traffic to squeeze into 2 lanes as the go past. Yesterday I was sat in the middle lane as they were going past and the lead car had his rear window red LED sign pointing to move over. Surely they don't expect to be able to take over 2 lanes during the rush hour? I wasn't sure if I needed to move over.

Is it really the best way and best time to travel like this?

Funnily enough, there was one in London last week whilst I was working down there, and that was stopped, attacked and a local Chav was "liberated".

London News: Feltham Prison escapee Wayne Connor is fifth family member to attempt jailbreak in 10 months | london life | thelondonpaper

I used to see this when I worked in Manchester many moons ago but I'm not to fussed about it as it's a nause granted, but would you want the scumbag being transported out on the loose again?

Funnily enough, there was one in London last week whilst I was working down there, and that was stopped, attacked and a local Chav was "liberated".

London News: Feltham Prison escapee Wayne Connor is fifth family member to attempt jailbreak in 10 months | london life | thelondonpaper

I used to see this when I worked in Manchester many moons ago but I'm not to fussed about it as it's a nause granted, but would you want the scumbag being transported out on the loose again?

I'm not on about letting people loose or sending them on the train with a PSCO to chaperone but what are the alternatives?

Not long ago, the people of Greater Manchester were balloted on a congestion charge and yet a governement agency is enforcing what amounts to a rolling roadblock down a busy motorway at peak time. Joined up thinking? :confused:

The timing might not be brilliant, but it could be for a reason. obviously they cant take any chances with certain dangerous individuals, terrorists, etc. Perhaps its done during rush hours to minimise escape posibilities, cars will move over for flashing blues, not for some **** in a BMW or white transit flashing his high beams, it would slow them down a lot. It would be easier to chase a car moving 10mph at 5 in the afternoon through stop and start traffic than a car moving at 120+mph at 3 in the morning with clear roads.

Of course I could be completely wrong as it could potentially put more lives in danger, but tactically and logistically it would make more sense.

I'm not on about letting people loose or sending them on the train with a PSCO to chaperone but what are the alternatives?

Not long ago, the people of Greater Manchester were balloted on a congestion charge and yet a governement agency is enforcing what amounts to a rolling roadblock down a busy motorway at peak time. Joined up thinking? :confused:

Don't feel victimised, Ive seen these convoy's all over the country.

And those vans prob don't handle too well at high speed as prisoner and guards in the back may not be belted in - wouldn't fancy being in one of those like that if it was swerving at high speed to avoid an attempted jacking.

If it was doing that route, then it would more than likely be heading back to HMP Strangeways.

I have noticed people do drive really slowy down the M602 - dunno why? It's as if they think they've left the motorway and instantly drop down to 50mph for no good reason! GRRRRRRRR!!!!

its actually safer to move them this time of day as more traffic to shield them and stop an attack than doing it at 6am or 10pm when the roads are empty. with more cars about (yes in theory more risks) but with that amount of traffic bunched up anyone trying to attack the van aint gonna get far.

Don't feel victimised, Ive seen these convoy's all over the country.

lol, not exactly vistimized, Its been a few years since I got regularly held up. I can't believe that they still do the same now on what I'm guessing is a daily basis.

Rather then using the ARV to transport the cat A prisoner maybe they could just accidentally shoot said cat A every morning around 9am?

cheaper option for us tax payers

And those vans prob don't handle too well at high speed as prisoner and guards in the back may not be belted in - wouldn't fancy being in one of those like that if it was swerving at high speed to avoid an attempted jacking.

If it was doing that route, then it would more than likely be heading back to HMP Strangeways.

I have noticed people do drive really slowy down the M602 - dunno why? It's as if they think they've left the motorway and instantly drop down to 50mph for no good reason! GRRRRRRRR!!!!

Without going to to much detail ( security reasons ) having seen inside a small CAT A vehicle The guards inside are very comfertable and the vehicle will withstand severe punishment form explosive devices etc. The armour and all other kit the lorry carries is the reason why it goes so slow. A small CAT A lorry only carries 2 prisoners, a large one carries 4. Each prisoner will have at least 4 officers escourting him or her. There are scales of CAT A, ie depending on the nature of the crime, risk of escape or assisted escape etc. Not all CAT A vans are armoured or require police escourt.

I would suggest that the ones requiring ARV escourt are right up at the top of the CAT A scale and you wouldn't want these buggers loose in the community.

Having worked on the private prison vans for 2 years, you see things relating to CAT A's that make your bum breath on their own :eek:

As said above, it is a high risk Cat A escort.

I am often on the morning one, but its another force bringing them back to the prison in the afternoon.

It does sometimes seem a big waste of time and resources, but for this level of offender, there really aren't other options - if the threat is there, it needs to be deterred.

I thought they used different routes and times, though? :confused: Seems to me, orchestrating some Italian Job-style gridlock would make springing said baddie rather easy - can't see the SFOs being too happy about potentially having to discharge their weapons with dozens of motorists barely feet away, and unable to take cover. In fact, it would make a rather handy 'hostage farm' from the bad guys point of view... :(

Its not a case of orchestrating it deliberately to be in rush hour traffic - its about what time they are required to be at the destination.

Its also about the deterrent being big enough to deter! - Therefore making an attack not possible or not worth risking. - Hence there hasn't been an attack on an escort of this level in this country (so far!)

Here,s a good one for you , just dont ask how much it cost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGUJJ5xGbMM&feature=related

These are the real money earners though . . .

Edited 22 January, 200917 yr by smog monster

A lot more attacks take place than are publisied - just like cash van attacks.

People were often liberated from Feltham in some shape or form, as the chopper was always out when we were trying to sleep.

Will the police escort ambulances or motorbike couriers going well over the speed limit?

I've seen this before as well and did just put it down to prisoner movement between court and prision, or moving between prisons. The regularity of the M62 one suggested to me court-related and dangerous contents, hence the protection.

Nice to have some more info though, cheers

Steve