I have Eibachs dampers and springs, lowered 25mm to my vRS with Eagle F1 tyres on the standard rims. On track days the outside of my tyres are rubbing on the wheel arches :eek: and is clearly noticable when you look at the tyre. Other than slow down am I right in thinking I need to fit some bump stops to stop this hapening? If so do I need to buy some specifically for my Eibach setup?

Thanks for the help, John

Are the tyres the same size as stock?

Are the tyres the same size as stock?

I'm honestly not sure mate, my car's at home so have asked my wife to nip out and have a butchers for me - I'll post up in a bit but I should say that this only happens under heavy cornering and only ever on track days as it does take a serious load to make it happen.

The tyres certainly will not be helping F1's have a very square edge on them, making them more prone to rubbing,

what exactly is rubbing, the sidewall or the corners where the sidewall meets the tread?

The tyres certainly will not be helping F1's have a very square edge on them, making them more prone to rubbing,

what exactly is rubbing, the sidewall or the corners where the sidewall meets the tread?

Yes there is a definate square edge on this tyre, look good but maybe not suited to a couple track days a year then! I'd say its the corners that are rubbing, its totally scrubbed, I'll have to get a picture up to show you all later. Anybody got any experience of this that tracks their car every now and then?

Thanks

Roll the arches and/or, if you're running 225s, go back to 205s.

Roll the arches and/or, if you're running 225s, go back to 205s.

I'm sure their 205's, sounds messy rolling the arches - dont think thats a job for me;). So bump stops arent the answer then?

Rolling the arches is a job for a bodyshop yes.

As for the bump stops, are you using the standard ones? You'll need to actually look at the car, but there should be clean bits on the ends of the stops, and clean circles to match in the suspension arms, if you are.

Thanks Ken, I think they are just the standard ones although I'll have to take a wheel off and have a good look! I've not owned the car from new but I do know Jabbasport fitted the Eibach springs and dampers so maybe they would recommend upgrading these whilst the suspension was fitted.

Well, if the stops are standard, and you're using them, I'd say the car's set too low, because when you hit the stops you're only a few mm from running out of bump travel, at which point your spring rate goes infinite, and there is a good chance of you spinning out. If you're not, then and only then, you might consider longer and more progressive stops.

Well, if the stops are standard, and you're using them, I'd say the car's set too low, because when you hit the stops you're only a few mm from running out of bump travel, at which point your spring rate goes infinite, and there is a good chance of you spinning out. If you're not, then and only then, you might consider longer and more progressive stops.

Excellent Info:thumbup: lets hope I'm running on the standard stops so I can put longer ones on - cars going in to have its brakes fitted next week so I want to get it sorted then.

John

I could be talking utter crap and willing to be told so, but I am running Eibachs and Konis so about the same drop. iirc the stops are cut shorter to facilitate the eibachs http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/bump-stop-chop/60903/ so don't think that is your problem. On std rims and 205's I have a good three fingers of clearance between tyre and arch. I would say if your tyres are catching then there is something wrong with your suspension. When you say you can see the wear on the outside edge of the trye can you hear it catching when on the track or could it be too much + camber (or not enough - camber) Not sure on F1's compound but on the Toyos my inside edge 1" is nearly bald :eek: after 9K miles which I can only presume is due to running on the spec limit of - camber and too many corners too fast :P

Padraig, I think you've got a point there. You should hear tyres rubbing on arches, and again you should see evidence, like clean marks, or paint missing, or rubber dust, or a combination.

As to your wear pattern, I'd say that's lots of negative camber, particularly since lowering a car with stock lower arms will increase camber and castor.

I could be talking utter crap and willing to be told so, but I am running Eibachs and Konis so about the same drop. iirc the stops are cut shorter to facilitate the eibachs http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/bump-stop-chop/60903/ so don't think that is your problem. On std rims and 205's I have a good three fingers of clearance between tyre and arch

I'd say I also have similar finger clearance from wheels to arch - IMHO I think I must be running the standard bump stops which simply arent up to the job. There is definately visible wear on all 4 tyres where the corner meets the tyre wall and it can be clearly heard when cornering hard, admittedly the Eagle F1s wont be helping but i think my first step is to have a wheel off and check my existing bump stops - on the road even when driven spirited I never experience this problem and the car never feels loose or anything like that.

To OP sorry to Hijack

Padraig, I'd say that's lots of negative camber, particularly since lowering a car with stock lower arms will increase camber and castor.

My camber and wear??? - gives inside edge + outside edge, When I had the suspension fitted the results showed -0deg56' limit is 0deg58' Caster is out by maybe a degree and always as been lo0oking at the report. Wear is a little odd in that the degree of wear comes and goes to a slight degree around circumference of tyre, hence I am putting it down to soft compound and too many hairpin bends/ autobahn corners at too higher speed

BTW its Andrew not Patrick PPat is purely a ref to my proffesion;)

I'd say I also have similar finger clearance from wheels to arch - IMHO I think I must be running the standard bump stops which simply arent up to the job. There is definately visible wear on all 4 tyres where the corner meets the tyre wall and it can be clearly heard when cornering hard, admittedly the Eagle F1s wont be helping but i think my first step is to have a wheel off and check my existing bump stops - on the road even when driven spirited I never experience this problem and the car never feels loose or anything like that.

Most people just cut down the original bump stops there is a guide kicking about somewhere, but surely making the stops shorter will allow the wheel to travel even further into the arch :confused:

Edited 23 January, 200917 yr by postmanpat

Most people just cut down the original bump stops there is a guide kicking about somewhere, but surely making the stops shorter will allow the wheel to travel even further into the arch :confused:

Yes sorry, what I mean is that the standard ones although probably cut are not strong enough or as Ken has said I need a longer more progessive bump stop? Is it possible these things can simply perish a little and lose some of their resilliance to impact? Apologies if Im a little unclear, really appreciate the help though

John

As earlier, cut-down bump stops are a bodge. Yes they'll give you longer travel before you hit them, but they'll compress less when you do, so the rate of change of suspension rate from the native spring rate to infinite when you do hit them will be even higher. Also, as Andrew rightly says, your wheels will travel further into the arches, and a few mm off the bump rubber can be several times as much at the wheel because the rubber is nearer the pivot.

I just can't see how you are managing to generate enough force to compress the spring enough to allow the tyre to rub tbh I would be looking at my dampers (or springs) would also expect if the tyre suddenly started grabbing the wheel arch mid corner you would feel it/ have a moment. Even less likely to occur on the rears as you say all four are the same I would still be looking at Geometry

IIRC the Furbie's got a torsion beam rear, yes? If so then you can't change the rear camber angle by changing the ride height, and castor doesn't apply to the rear either. Which makes me think that, unless it was done as part of the installation, a full geometry might well be in order. There's a useful sticky here (this forum) on that subject.

I just can't see how you are managing to generate enough force to compress the spring enough to allow the tyre to rub tbh I would be looking at my dampers (or springs) would also expect if the tyre suddenly started grabbing the wheel arch mid corner you would feel it/ have a moment. Even less likely to occur on the rears as you say all four are the same I would still be looking at Geometry

I'll mention this to the garage when its having the brakes fitted next week, the problem isnt as bad at the rear but you can still see wear. Maybe I should just slow down:rolleyes:

John

Maybe I should just slow down:rolleyes:

John

Nah, just increase your tyre budget :P

Nah, just increase your tyre budget :P

I am on the look out for some track wheels and Toyo R888s but I dont want to put them on only to be wrecked by my suspension setup / geometry! I have just read the Sticky that Ken advised I read - I had no idea it was such an issue or so in depth, If the problem does turn out to be with the geomerty I will most certainly insist on it being done on the proper machine using primary / secondary data - 8 angle jobby!

John

With regard to 888 speak to Dave (shifty) he used to run them, I'm not sure how long they lasted in track time but suspect they are an expensive luxuary . Like I said with ref to my own car, the geo can be in spec but if you are running soft grippy rubber then if you drive them toward the limit then you will see odd wear patterns quicker (for instance the spec for front camber is -58' to + 02' ). Just out of interest how many miles (track and road ) have you put on the F1's??

Just out of interest how many miles (track and road ) have you put on the F1's??

On the Eagle F1s I have on at the moment, I've done 5000 road miles and 40 laps of the Nurburgring. I wont track this set of tyres again hence looking for some dedicated wheels and tyres but for road use I cant fault it - I reckon it would be fine ona normal track but they just get oo hot at 'the ring'. I guess what you say about the softer tyres being driven on the limit could ring true for the Eagle F1s so it may just be that?

40 laps of the ring I think you have your answer, especially with the trip there and back as well. I know I don't always slow down on the autobahn when the corner says 110/130 kph Not exactly tyre friendly.