Just wondered how regular this is for the fabia vRS.

After work today I found out my car was emptying a lot of oil and after taking it to the garage they told me the Sump bolt had given up. Gonna cost near £300 at Clist n Rattle for a replacement Sump and oil.

Anyone else had this problem as it sounds like its quite regular in the fabia because the bolt is steel and the Sump is Aluminium. Usually each service when they change the oil the bolt gets slowly worse and they have to use something called a helicoil for the last 60,000 miles, Looked it up in the invoices this was first mentioned at 40,000miles.

At the 20,000 service they first told me about the Sump thread perishing and that it would give up at some point.

But The first time I went to Clist and Rattle for my 30,000 mile service there was no mention that the sump thread was perishing or that a helicoil was used.

Comments from the 40,000mile service was 'Sump Thread Slightly Damaged (Has Already Had Helicoil) Advised replace Sump next Oil Change'

40,000 mile was still within warranty.

Also by the sounds of it that means the Sump will only last about 30,000 miles and if using a Helicoil will give up 10,000miles after.

My car had its first MOT at around 55,000 to 60,000miles.

I have always had a Skoda Technician change my oil.

Finally I was able to get a proper mechanic to look at my old sump and they have discovered that the Helicoil was not put in straight so appears to have always had a problem since the helicoil was put in at 30,000 miles or 40,000 miles service.

What do people think should have been done?

Edited 30 March, 200917 yr by Tigger_1979

Can they not helicoil the ally sump?

Its not uncommon, usually occurs though when the bolt is either not replaced everytime or is overtightened and it pulls on the thread (30nm)

£300 is a bit steep tbh, but as said it can be helicoiled.

Can they not helicoil the ally sump?

Ah that was it not Hex it was Helicoil. They have been doing that for the last 60,000 miles. I was told this is just general wear and tear.

Edited 26 March, 200917 yr by Tigger_1979

Ouch! I never realised this was a possibility. Glad used a new bolt on my last oil change as I'd been using the same bolt before that about half a dozen times, not realising it might damage something.

I would have thought it was only a problem if you over tighten the sump plug?

Never had a problem with any of my VAG cars with alloy sumps....just going to find some wood to touch now!

A helicoil is a stainless steel insert, once fitted it is a stronger thread than the aluminium thread would have been from new.

Ouch! I never realised this was a possibility. Glad used a new bolt on my last oil change as I'd been using the same bolt before that about half a dozen times, not realising it might damage something.

It's not the bolt thats replaced its the thread on the sump itself that gives up

I just gotta keep my fingers crossed that they can get the part tomorrow so I can pick the car up during the Wurzel meet on Saturday. Or is this going to be the first WSM meet my car wont be able to do :(

It's not the bolt thats replaced its the thread on the sump itself that gives up

And it sounds like re-using the bolts isn't good in the long run, especially if you exceed the (what I take to be correct from my records) 30 Nm tightening torque.

And it sounds like re-using the bolts isn't good in the long run, especially if you exceed the (what I take to be correct from my records) 30 Nm tightening torque.

I've never touched that, Clist n Rattle always change the oil for me. So I spose that setting of 30Nm might be wrong.

(what I take to be correct from my records)

Or exactly what I posted a bit further up

Yippeee they had the part in stock in London and shipped it out to Bristol today and can work on it in the morning for me

So my car is not going to miss the WSM meet after all

Good stuff

Or exactly what I posted a bit further up

and what I didn't even clock the first time.

This is a bit naughty really, I ran and serviced a VX GSI 2000 for 9 years/80,000 miles with no problem with aluminium sump, I've also "kept" a Fiesta 1.6Si with the Zetec engine, again aluminium sump for 9 years/90,000 miles and had no problems with it either, and I run and service a Passat 2.8 V6 for nearly 9 years/70,000 miles, again aluminium sump, with no problems, and finally I "keep" a Polo 1.4 SE nearly 7 years/ 60,000 miles, again aluminium sump with no problems. One point I must make here, none of these cars have ever had oil changed by anyone other than me, one last thing, quite a lot of the new VAG oil sump plugs I've bought have dented threads - probably due to bad packaging and bad handling, I tend to "dress" the threads before I use these plugs as these dents or rags on the thread and always going to rip up the soft aluminium threads in the sump and then its trouble - in the past, sump plugs tended to last the life of the car unless chewed up, so only the sealing washer was replaced, VAG's idea for keeping the sealing washer as part of the sump plug is a good idea but it is a bit flawed when no care is taken to prevent damage to the new sump plug threads!

This is a bit naughty really, I ran and serviced a VX GSI 2000 for 9 years/80,000 miles with no problem with aluminium sump, I've also "kept" a Fiesta 1.6Si with the Zetec engine, again aluminium sump for 9 years/90,000 miles and had no problems with it either, and I run and service a Passat 2.8 V6 for nearly 9 years/70,000 miles, again aluminium sump, with no problems, and finally I "keep" a Polo 1.4 SE nearly 7 years/ 60,000 miles, again aluminium sump with no problems. One point I must make here, none of these cars have ever had oil changed by anyone other than me, one last thing, quite a lot of the new VAG oil sump plugs I've bought have dented threads - probably due to bad packaging and bad handling, I tend to "dress" the threads before I use these plugs as these dents or rags on the thread and always going to rip up the soft aluminium threads in the sump and then its trouble - in the past, sump plugs tended to last the life of the car unless chewed up, so only the sealing washer was replaced, VAG's idea for keeping the sealing washer as part of the sump plug is a good idea but it is a bit flawed when no care is taken to prevent damage to the new sump plug threads!

Agreed. Only careless mechanics can mess up such a simple replacement of a sump plug, Alloy or steel.

I see this a lot on Morris 1000 gearboxes, steel bolt into aluminum, and damaged threads. Two words TORQUE WRENCH.

Just wondered how regular this is for the fabia vRS.

After work today I found out my car was emptying a lot of oil and after taking it to the garage they told me the Sump bolt had given up. Gonna cost near £300 at Clist n Rattle for a replacement Sump and oil.

Anyone else had this problem as it sounds like its quite regular in the fabia because the bolt is steel and the Sump is Aluminium. Usually each service when they change the oil the bolt gets slowly worse and they have to use something called a helicoil for the last 60,000 miles, Looked it up in the invoices this was first mentioned at 40,000miles.

At the 20,000 service they first told me about the Sump thread perishing and that it would give up at some point.

But The first time I went to Clist and Rattle for my 30,000 mile service there was no mention that the sump thread was perishing or that a helicoil was used.

Comments from the 40,000mile service was 'Sump Thread Slightly Damaged (Has Already Had Helicoil) Advised replace Sump next Oil Change'

40,000 mile was still within warranty.

Also by the sounds of it that means the Sump will only last about 30,000 miles and if using a Helicoil will give up 10,000miles after.

My car had its first MOT at around 55,000 to 60,000miles

I have always had a Skoda Technician change my oil.

Finally I was able to get a proper mechanic to look at my old sump and they have discovered that the Helicoil was not put in straight so appears to have always had a problem since the helicoil was put in at 30,000 miles or 40,000 miles service.

What do people think should have been done?

Just updated my first post with a bit more detail

Edited 30 March, 200917 yr by Tigger_1979

You can easily exceed 30nm with a socket set. A Torque wrench is a must when tightening with aluminium threads.

I see this a lot on Morris 1000 gearboxes, steel bolt into aluminum, and damaged threads. Two words TORQUE WRENCH.

Minis too. My last few cars have been VAG with alloy sump, and I always replace the plug and take care when tightening- no problems so far, but obviously a torque wrench is the answer.

This is a bit naughty really, I ran and serviced a VX GSI 2000 for 9 years/80,000 miles with no problem with aluminium sump, I've also "kept" a Fiesta 1.6Si with the Zetec engine, again aluminium sump for 9 years/90,000 miles and had no problems with it either, and I run and service a Passat 2.8 V6 for nearly 9 years/70,000 miles, again aluminium sump, with no problems, and finally I "keep" a Polo 1.4 SE nearly 7 years/ 60,000 miles, again aluminium sump with no problems. One point I must make here, none of these cars have ever had oil changed by anyone other than me, one last thing, quite a lot of the new VAG oil sump plugs I've bought have dented threads - probably due to bad packaging and bad handling, I tend to "dress" the threads before I use these plugs as these dents or rags on the thread and always going to rip up the soft aluminium threads in the sump and then its trouble - in the past, sump plugs tended to last the life of the car unless chewed up, so only the sealing washer was replaced, VAG's idea for keeping the sealing washer as part of the sump plug is a good idea but it is a bit flawed when no care is taken to prevent damage to the new sump plug threads!

You're dead right about the defective sump plugs from VAG. I change mine every oil change, the last time the thread on the sump plug was defective, not damaged, just wouldn't screw in properly. I took it back and got another to prevent damaging the sump thread.

I was thinking about this the other day. Happened to a mate on his Bora, and IIRC, my threads were always a bit tight... Had a look to see how easy it would be to change the sump, and it looks like the gearbox is partly covering some of the bolts. Is that the case, does the box need removed to change it?

And, if helicoiling the sump, is there any metallic filings left inside the sump once it has been repaired? How do you get them out?

I was thinking about this the other day. Happened to a mate on his Bora, and IIRC, my threads were always a bit tight... Had a look to see how easy it would be to change the sump, and it looks like the gearbox is partly covering some of the bolts. Is that the case, does the box need removed to change it?

And, if helicoiling the sump, is there any metallic filings left inside the sump once it has been repaired? How do you get them out?

I'd reckon that if you are showing concern wrt leaving some aluminium swarf in the sump then you should really keep your self happy by only doing this with the sump off. You will probably find that any partially obscured bolts can be reached by using wobble jointed extensions. Remember that to "set" a helicoil, you need to snap off the fitting tang - failure to do that will mean that the bolt will make contact on the tang and force the inboard end of the helicoil out of the thread while the end of the helicoil bites into the bolt thread - so when you remove the plug next time, you will have a problem again. I'd reckon that a smart tech could probably do this without removing the sump, do something like re-fit the drain plug - load maybe a couple of litres of thin flushing fluid down the dip stick tube so that it goes straight into the sump - then take the plug out to let this fluid carry out the tang and swarf with it.

Edit:- one point though, just in case you don't know this, when fixing a stipped thread first you need to maybe open out the existing hole, retap to the helicoil size then fit the helicoil. If any of this is done "off-line" ie not at right angles to the plug sealing face, then you will not have done the "proper" job to achieve maximum strength.

Edited 5 April, 200917 yr by rum4mo

I was told the Helicoil slowly gets worse. I have the old sump here and we can see that the Helicoil was not in straight, can the Helicoil move? or was it put in skew wiff.