airline bomb plot

[seboni121]

:thumbup:totally off topic I know, but as citizens of the world and especially the UK lets all rejoice and merrily be HAPPY these 3 young radicalised muslims have been thrown into the gallows for a very long time these men if you can call them men had enough explosives to bring down up to 20 airlines thats your children,mothers and fathers brothers and sisters I know what I am saying is confrontational but we as the western civilasation need to make a radical stand here and send a message enough is enough and to be honest this court case has cost us the tax payer 40 millions pounds bring back corporal punishment bullets are not that expensive are they?

Edited 14 September, 2009 by seboni121
ADJUSTMENT

[seboni121]

:zombie:feel's like everyone is sitting on the fence with this one, lets discuss the issue we should not shy away from stuff that makes us whince:confused:

[devonutopia]

Well, posting it in the Superb II technical forum wasn't exactly a good move now was it?

I have moved it to Roadside hotel where it might be better discussed in a professional manner.

[seboni121]

Yes:rotz: sorry I am fairly new to the forum and in future will find the right place to put it ROADSIDE HOTEL never seen this before will make sure I don't make the same mistake sorry again thanx:rofl:

[westerdam2]

bring back corporal punishment

I think you mean capital punishment ie 'death' sentences. 'Corporal' punishment is entirely different unless you mean reintroducing public floggings.

[Kaiserb_uk]

And 'the gallows' is what you use to hang someone (well, that and a rope).

What you're saying isn't confrontational, it's incomprehensible.

[oilburninnut]

I think you mean capital punishment ie 'death' sentences. 'Corporal' punishment is entirely different unless you mean reintroducing public floggings.

ooo public spankings now there is an idea:rubchin:

back to topic now, how exactly should we deal with these people and others like them? How is it we have come to the point that extremists want to blow us up? And how do we stop it from happening?I (and don't all look so suprised at this next comment) don't think executing people is the way forward,for any criminals,especially not these individuals as they would end up martyres (i know i can't spell) but is just locking them up any sort of answer to what i see as a long term problem,and will it do any good?how many more want to step into there shoes,i think the multicultural experiment carried out by this government breeds hate among our own british muslims and right wing fanatics,my view is we are all human and need to all learn to live happily together in harmony before the alien invasion lands and wipes a disjointed human race from the galaxy.

[gadgetman]

The UK lockdown happened when I was due to come back from Germany after shutting down a trial remote office (trial ended and customer didnt take up contract).

Despite the restrictions, we managed to get on (pay) the 1st Lufthansa flight back to Heathrow from Munich carrying 2 laptops, 3 mobiles and a bottle of Coke as hand luggage.

BA staff at Munich were fricking useless helping us as, erm, we werent German

I'm glad these deluded individuals can spend their days an embarrassment to their cause and outcasts from their families and communities for the rest of their days. That's punishment enough in my eyes.

[Soot1e]

It is a good day when these would be terrorists are locked away for a long time. What else bothers me is they are home grown British young men, albeit they are Muslin. How can they live in this country and plot unspeakable crimes to all citizens of our country? Something is obviously politically wrong here when one citizen wants to kill another in the name of religion and conflict of a country they probably never visited or have connections with.

[daveclayton]

seems that australia have the right idea. if you dont like the way the country is run, then dont bother living there. i applaude the fact their PM stood up and said that. it seems that the uk is willing to sacrifice every bit of history, every bit of britishness for afew radicals that dont like people having a union flag in ther garden??

we live in a very accepting country. and i consider myself lucky to have been born here.

I live in england and im proud to be english. seems nowadays that makes me a racist

[gadgetman]

Why do you need a flag in your garden to prove your Britishness/Englishness?

[Spiralis]

I think you mean capital punishment ie 'death' sentences. 'Corporal' punishment is entirely different unless you mean reintroducing public floggings.

Well you can start by skinning these stupid *****s alive, and then flogg them with their own hide !

OK it is "a bit" on the extreme side, but I work in the aviation business and have to deal with the "fallout" of terrorist actions against aviation (ie stupid "security" regime) every day at work. And quite frankly, it ****es me off !!!!!

There are days when ( for all I care ) anyone would be welcome to to flatten most of the Middle East and cover it with Tarmac to turn the whole shebang into a parkinglot and erect the worlds largest IKEA on the site!

If anyone wonders: " YES I DO HAVE A ****TY DAY AT WORK TODAY!

[ap0gee1978]

Go too far, though, and those two lads from Audenshaw High with their boozed- / spliffed-up teenage-angst-ridden fantasies would be swinging from a rope by now. IMO, they should have been sectioned not arrested, but by the OP's standards clearly not...

[ultra_joel88]

The perhaps even more controversial flip side of the coin is that had we not taken part in the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan such attacks, including July 7th, may not even take place or be planned at all. At least in the same frequency and intensity. I'll probably be shot down for this but you can't invade other sovereign countries, no matter how much you might disagree with their way of doing things, and not expect some sort of backlash. You don't see muslim extremists targeting Germany or France with the same venom do you?

Many British Muslims feel isolated and victimised by sections of the free press and the government's dangerous rhetoric won't help matters. It is encouraging social exclusion and they are increasingly being made to feel not welcome in a country that most were born into or at least born into a territory once under British control. Look at the backlash against the building of Mosques and the Hijab you wouldn't see such venom if a Church or Synagogue were being built would you, or against Jews wearing the Kippah?

Not that I condone absolutely any of what has taken place. Extremism has absolutely no place anywhere. Simply playing devils advocate and suggesting that the West isn't a completely blameless victim in all of this - although the targeting of civilians is a sick and unforgivable act.

Edited 17 September, 2009 by ultra_joel88

[ap0gee1978]

Actually, France and Germany have had their fair share of Islamist attacks and plots - AIUI in France due to their hard-line stance on secularism in the public sector and in shared facilities such as schools (I'm all for the separation of church and state FWIW...), and in Germany due to the radicalisation of second-generation Gastarbeiter, much like our own home-grown teenage and twenty-something fundamentalists.

[ultra_joel88]

Actually, France and Germany have had their fair share of Islamist attacks and plots - AIUI in France due to their hard-line stance on secularism in the public sector and in shared facilities such as schools (I'm all for the separation of church and state FWIW...), and in Germany due to the radicalisation of second-generation Gastarbeiter, much like our own home-grown teenage and twenty-something fundamentalists.

Ap0gee, thanks for that, always good to be enlightened.

I agree with you on the seperation thing, but to me again it seems a case of double-standards when it comes to Britain, a lot of the right-wing press and a significant proportion of the public would probably like to see the hijab and Birkah banned from public places.

Yet when a company has a policy of no religious symbolism and asks a woman to remove a cross ec everybody is up in arms :thumbdwn:

If there is a seperation it has to be absolute and I do applaud the French government for their hardline stance against ALL religious groups.

[ednmra]

Look at the backlash against the building of Mosques and the Hijab you wouldn't see such venom if a Church or Synagogue were being built would you, or against Jews wearing the Kippah?

But this is partly because we don't associate indiscriminate murder and destruction with British orthodox Jews or observant Christians, or for that matter other religions apart from Islam, whose more extreme teachings are that the whole world must convert to their way of thinking or suffer the consequences.

Anyway, why should there be a backlash against building a church in a Christian country? Try building that, or a synagogue, in Saudi Arabia!!!

But all this reminds me of a science fiction short story I read when I was little, (I mean young - I'm still little) which was that it turned out the Earth was the galaxy's looney bin where all the other races dropped off their untreatable crackpots, disguised as human beings.

Ring a bell !!?

Edited 17 September, 2009 by Bigw2069
fixed quotes

[Loz]

Why do you need a flag in your garden to prove your Britishness/Englishness?

If the Americans can do it, why can't we? Oh yes, because it's "offensive" to other cultures. Bull****. Thats exactly what makes people WANT to put flags up all the more.

Anyway BTT- I knew there was a reason I was scared of flying! Damn me and my determination to get over my fear! Still, least I got back over the Atlantic in one piece!

[ultra_joel88]

Look at the backlash against the building of Mosques and the Hijab you wouldn't see such venom if a Church or Synagogue were being built would you' date=' or against Jews wearing the Kippah?

QUOTE']

But this is partly because we don't associate indiscriminate murder and destruction with British orthodox Jews or observant Christians, or for that matter other religions apart from Islam, whose more extreme teachings are that the whole world must convert to their way of thinking or suffer the consequences.

Anyway, why should there be a backlash against building a church in a Christian country? Try building that, or a synagogue, in Saudi Arabia!!!

But all this reminds me of a science fiction short story I read when I was little, (I mean young - I'm still little) which was that it turned out the Earth was the galaxy's looney bin where all the other races dropped off their untreatable crackpots, disguised as human beings.

Ring a bell !!?

But you can't compare Britain to Saudi Arabia? Not only are they culturally worlds apart but financially as well.

Perhaps it would be better to compare Britain to Turkey, which is predominantly Muslim and although far from perfect is improving considerably with regards to the treatment of minorities. They also operate a secular public sector policy - e.g. no hijabs in Universities, much to the annoyance of most of the 98% Muslim population!

The trouble is that most British Muslims are peaceful are law-abiding, and it is dangerous to lump them in with "extremeists" who many Muslims regard as betrayers of their faith.

I think if you look back in history only a little bit you'll find plenty of instances of Jewish terrorism (OK so not on British soil) - British-Zionist conflict 1950s.

Look back even further and Christianities history isn't exactly rosy...

There were plenty of attacks on Britain by the IRA - but nobody branded all Irish Catholics as terrorists did they? People seem to quick to brand Islam as a faith inextricably linked to terrorism though? It is a perversion of the Islamic faith that is linked to terrorism.

[ultra_joel88]

If the Americans can do it, why can't we? Oh yes, because it's "offensive" to other cultures. Bull****. Thats exactly what makes people WANT to put flags up all the more.

Anyway BTT- I knew there was a reason I was scared of flying! Damn me and my determination to get over my fear! Still, least I got back over the Atlantic in one piece!

I think if every British person was as patriotic as most of the Americans I have met I would be on the ferry to France ASAP. :thumbdwn:

[ednmra]

But you can't compare Britain to Saudi Arabia? Not only are they culturally worlds apart but financially as well.

Perhaps it would be better to compare Britain to Turkey' date=' which is predominantly Muslim and although [i']far [/i]from perfect is improving considerably with regards to the treatment of minorities. They also operate a secular public sector policy - e.g. no hijabs in Universities, much to the annoyance of most of the 98% Muslim population!

The trouble is that most British Muslims are peaceful are law-abiding, and it is dangerous to lump them in with "extremeists" who many Muslims regard as betrayers of their faith.

I think if you look back in history only a little bit you'll find plenty of instances of Jewish terrorism (OK so not on British soil) - British-Zionist conflict 1950s.

Look back even further and Christianities history isn't exactly rosy...

There were plenty of attacks on Britain by the IRA - but nobody branded all Irish Catholics as terrorists did they? People seem to quick to brand Islam as a faith inextricably linked to terrorism though? It is a perversion of the Islamic faith that is linked to terrorism.

Quite true - it is always the extremists that cause trouble, and other people tend to brand the race, religion or whatever by the public face of the extremists. The only thing that possibly separates the early Israel situation is that they had literally just come out of a period of near extinction attempted by the so-civilised Europeans of the time, and in those days they had no reason to believe it would never happen again. It has and it does.

They realise now that the only people looking out for their security is themselves, and they will do it any way that works.

Sadly their enemies in the area will probably never be anything else, as has been proven time and again when attempted negotiated peace deals have simply resulted in renewed attacks.

[oilburninnut]

I think if every British person was as patriotic as most of the Americans I have met I would be on the ferry to France ASAP. :thumbdwn:

so you don't agree with being patriotic then? Funny because untill that statement i was beggining to agree with most of what you have said in this thread,which even suprised me.(I usually hate all the loonie leftie nonsense you spout;))

There is an easy way to stop all this nonsense and that is treat all races equally,and by that i don't mean adding even more silly laws banning the word blackpool ect,i think the lawmakers of this country are adding to the problem by pretty much telling ethnic minoritys what offends them,i work with several minority workers and what hacks most of them off is being called an ethnic minority,they says they are british,black and muslims and proud to be all three,they don't want or need special treatment,help groups,liason officers ect they just needs to go to work to look after thier familys and enjoy thier free time like everyone else,we don't need to treat these people differently and the majority of them do not want to be treated differently so why do our government continue spouting nonsense and driving a wedge between the racial groups in our society isolating them and driving young muslims straight to the extremists?

If mr average(or below average) intelligence can see the problem how is it our suposedly intelligent leaders can't?

[ultra_joel88]

so you don't agree with being patriotic then? Funny because untill that statement i was beggining to agree with most of what you have said in this thread,which even suprised me.(I usually hate all the loonie leftie nonsense you spout;))

There is an easy way to stop all this nonsense and that is treat all races equally,and by that i don't mean adding even more silly laws banning the word blackpool ect,i think the lawmakers of this country are adding to the problem by pretty much telling ethnic minoritys what offends them,i work with several minority workers and what hacks most of them off is being called an ethnic minority,they says they are british,black and muslims and proud to be all three,they don't want or need special treatment,help groups,liason officers ect they just needs to go to work to look after thier familys and enjoy thier free time like everyone else,we don't need to treat these people differently and the majority of them do not want to be treated differently so why do our government continue spouting nonsense and driving a wedge between the racial groups in our society isolating them and driving young muslims straight to the extremists?

If mr average(or below average) intelligence can see the problem how is it our suposedly intelligent leaders can't?

Nooo there is nothing wrong with patriotism as long as its not overdone like most american forms are. I sing the national anthem like everyone else but I dont see britain with tinted specs we arent the centre of world and have our problems and flaws just like everywhere else. Too often for me also people confuse patriotism (loving ones country for what it is - warts and all) with nationalism (loving ones country for what it isn't, usually at the expense of other groups/ countries).

[gadgetman]

If the Americans can do it, why can't we? Oh yes, because it's "offensive" to other cultures. Bull****. Thats exactly what makes people WANT to put flags up all the more.

Remember the history of America. They simply need to remind themselve they're american and remind others. We brits dont need everyone to know we're british. We have a few thousand years of history to affirm that

I think if every British person was as patriotic as most of the Americans I have met I would be on the ferry to France ASAP. :thumbdwn:

:+1:

There are days when ( for all I care ) anyone would be welcome to to flatten most of the Middle East and cover it with Tarmac to turn the whole shebang into a parkinglot and erect the worlds largest IKEA on the site!

Why? Are you saying whole countries, as in every single citizen of, is to blame?

Remember the west trained, armed and financed the big terrorist organisations that have been an issue in the last 30 years. They're actually rebelling because they served their use, and escaped being eliminated. Bin Laden himself was the target of a number of US attempts to kill him and his teams of Afgan millitia

[ultra_joel88]

Remember the history of America. They simply need to remind themselve they're american and remind others. We brits dont need everyone to know we're british. We have a few thousand years of history to affirm that

:+1:

Why? Are you saying whole countries, as in every single citizen of, is to blame?

Remember the west trained, armed and financed the big terrorist organisations that have been an issue in the last 30 years. They're actually rebelling because they served their use, and escaped being eliminated. Bin Laden himself was the target of a number of US attempts to kill him and his teams of Afgan millitia

Unfortunately Gadgetman, a lot of people seem to have selective memories they forget things like:

The Taliban = The Mudjahadin = Armed by the US and her Allies as a barrier to Soviet expansion into the Middle East

And

Saddam Hussein = The good guy in the 1980s against "evil" Iran, who actually, quite ironically, only became evil because we were meddling in their affairs giving backhanders to the Shah so he could line his toilet seat with gold, and the people didn't like it.

As nasty a man as Saddam was, at least people could walk down the street in Baghdad without fear of being blown up. A crackpot he might have been but Saddam was no fundamentalist, theres plenty of evidence to suggest he deeply mistrusted Islamic radicals, probably because they posed the only realistic threat to his power aside from the united states!

Edited 17 September, 2009 by ultra_joel88