Fairy Liquid

[andy2407]

OK - despite the fact that it is rumoured to be the UK's most popular car shampoo, I'm fully aware that Fairy Liquid (or other washing up liquids) should not be used on cars.

But I'm after a scientific description of what is so bad about it.

Salt content? Acidity? Alkalinity? Surfactant content? Degreaser content?

I've read a variety of reasons / half reasons but does anyone have a proper chemical / scientific explanation of what exactly the problem is?

TIA

Andy

[cjb]

Salt content, plus it strips wax.

[Lady Elanore]

And it is meant to be used on Fairies

Similarly ELF petroleum was only meant for the wee folk

hth

[jonnycatbiscuit]

yeah, salt content and (relatively) strong alkaline content...

[dfullb]

And it is meant to be used on Fairies

Similarly ELF petroleum was only meant for the wee folk

hth

I thought it was Passed by Fairies !!! :lol:

Dean

[Wardy]

Same Andy, salt content and pH value. Also that it's designed to strip grease, and everything else that happens to be present, from dishes - so straight away it doesn't exactly lend itself as the obvious choice for car paintwork

I do agree though, would be good to get a decent scientific answer. Is there any more info on DW perhaps?

Steve

[andy2407]

I do agree though, would be good to get a decent scientific answer. Is there any more info on DW perhaps?

That's the kind of thing I was after. A link to an explanation of a Material Safety Data Sheet or something like that.

I'll have a wander over to DW and ask the same question there.

[Basil]

Doesn't it contain microabrasives as well? Where's that darn sheet?

[cheezemonkhai]

Fairy is fine as many cars have been washed in it for many years without falling apart.

The issue is that it is somewhat alkaline and contains salts. It's not that bad though, or think what it would do to your hands as a dilute solution.

Never mind the hands, do you know how much washing up liquid the average UK person ingests because they don't rinse the plates after washing? How many people died from that?

Cars deal with much worse than that in winter and in the general pollution in cities, so I think fairy is pretty low down on the risky list.

The biggest issue of using fairy that comes from this is that it strips the wax from the car leaving no protection behind it.

Oh and the Hazard Sheet for the pro version is here:

http://www.pgprof.com/upload/documents/fairyliquidoriginalmsds.pdf

[Wardy]

Fair points Mark, but it just seems a totally unnecessary risk, when specific car shampoo is available...

Steve

[andy2407]

Thanks for the info chaps - keep it coming.

Quite a few threads on the subject over on DW - although again very little in the way of hard scientific information.

Found a "dumbed down" data sheet at FAIRY Original

I guess the potential problem with a large salt content is it will oxidise the paint. But I agree with CM that the amount is probably very low in this case.

I've also read that it strips wax - not sure of the mechanism by which it does this though? Any ideas?

[Wardy]

According to Mark's pro sheet, it carries a pH of 9.0 - so I would imagine an alkaline solution of that level would attack the makeup of the wax protection layers on the paint?

I'm not a chemist though, so there may well be a far better explanation than I can ever hope to apply logic to!

Steve

[Irf]

Fairy liquid is primarily designed to remove grease from plates. Car wax is basically a lump of grease. Therefore when you wash your car with Fairy then it removes the protection from the paintwork. This causes the paintwork to deteriorate over time quicker than by using a dedicated car shampoo containing a small amount of wax.

Its not only the paintwork you have to worry about, but also the plastic/rubber seals around doors/windows slowly perishing over time by using Fairy liquid.

[cheezemonkhai]

Fair points Mark, but it just seems a totally unnecessary risk, when specific car shampoo is available...

Steve

That's true, but look at the ingredients lists on a lot of them. APC isn't exactly all kind and wonderful either.

IMHO it comes down as much to the concentration of fairy being used as anything else and it's often more concentrated than the car shampoo.

Imagine how much people put in a washing up bowl and that's far more than is needed for a decent washing up liquid.

So fairy costs <1p per wash (you only need a drop) vs car shampoo where it costs a good few pence or more per wash.

I would think the one thing that some shampoos have going for them is that they contain lubricants to give a slick feel and help reduce scratching. Certain washing up liquids may have the same, I mean how many times have you scratched plates or glass even when dirt is stuck on?

I'd get a decent shampoo mainly because as long as you don't make it too strong it won't strip the wax back too much, but if it was a cheap car then I'd probably use a good shampoo, polish it and apply sealant then just use a very mild fairy to keep it clean over a winter.

Also fairy is a very good degreaser so can work wonders on windscreen traffic film. That's probably also why it strips wax more than a dedicated car shampoo mind.

According to Mark's pro sheet, it carries a pH of 9.0 - so I would imagine an alkaline solution of that level would attack the makeup of the wax protection layers on the paint?

I'm not a chemist though, so there may well be a far better explanation than I can ever hope to apply logic to!

Steve

Have a compare and you'll find that megs hyperwash is not much different. Ph is 8.5:

http://www.meguiars.com.au/msds/AA69-HW-FEB-06.pdf

The wax company that begins with a Z has this data sheet:

http://www.zymol.com/msds/glasur%20glaze.pdf

Their wax has a Ph of 6.5 to 7, which is pretty neutral, but going more alkaline might upset the weak forces holding it together and cause it to fall apart and hence come off more readily.

IRF, most car shampoos don't contain waxes, although obviously some do they are going to be different to the waxes we are talking about here.

Edited 16 November, 2009 by cheezemonkhai

[Wardy]

I'd never recommend using APC over the car as a 'normal' wash though - I only use that, or Virosol, when beginning a detail, specifically to remove wax layers from the car.

Bilt Hamber Autowash is a good example of a well-priced, quality product - that equates to around 5p per wash in practice.

Steve

[cheezemonkhai]

I'd never recommend using APC over the car as a 'normal' wash though - I only use that, or Virosol, when beginning a detail, specifically to remove wax layers from the car.

Bilt Hamber Autowash is a good example of a well-priced, quality product - that equates to around 5p per wash in practice.

Steve

I don't disagree with you and I use that myself. It's just that I'd never waste the money one a 1 year runner, only a car I intended to keep.

The point I was trying to make really was that some of it is fud (The car won't fall apart due to fairy use once) and also that there are a lot of washes that are cheap and not that different or very expensive per wash.

[Irf]

I would think the one thing that some shampoos have going for them is that they contain lubricants to give a slick feel and help reduce scratching. Certain washing up liquids may have the same, I mean how many times have you scratched plates or glass even when dirt is stuck on?

IRF, most car shampoos don't contain waxes, although obviously some do they are going to be different to the waxes we are talking about here.

I totally agree with you on car shampoos containing lubricants. It may not make much of a difference when you use the shampoo a few times. but over a few months or a year the paintwork will be noticeably in better condition than a shampoo without these ingredients.

As for the shampoos not containing waxes, I use Zymol Auto Wash (made by T-cut for Zymol) and AG Shampoo. Both contain ingredients that mildly protect the paintwork. Nowhere near as good as a dedicated wax, but they help to maintain the shine over any wax you have on there.

[Jcb.]

So it wouldn't be out of the question to use fairy before waxing the car? As it will remove all previous traces including any film etc present which may be left by use of a dedicated car shampoo.

I.e. it's ok to use as long as you give the paintwork some kind of shield afterwards?

Edit: perhaps also it could be seen as a quick and effective soltuion for glass cleaning. Especially through winter when the windscreen is at it's worst and you'd rather not be out with the glass polish! It could maybe have negative consquences for the wipers though?

[cjb]

Bilt Hamber Autowash is a good example of a well-priced, quality product - that equates to around 5p per wash in practice.

Steve

I use that. It's great and lasts ages.

[Wardy]

So it wouldn't be out of the question to use fairy before waxing the car? As it will remove all previous traces including any film etc present which may be left by use of a dedicated car shampoo.

I.e. it's ok to use as long as you give the paintwork some kind of shield afterwards?

Edit: perhaps also it could be seen as a quick and effective soltuion for glass cleaning. Especially through winter when the windscreen is at it's worst and you'd rather not be out with the glass polish! It could maybe have negative consquences for the wipers though?

Again, I see the point and I think it's a fair one. Speaking personally, I'm much rather use a product that was designed for the task in hand. Fairy would strip the wax, so would be suitable before a detailing session. But then it's not that great for any rubber seals etc.

In direct areas, on a sponge for glass perhaps, I could see the mileage in it. There again, I've got a class cleaning solution here, exactly for that task

Steve