Hi,

I know remaps on the Vrs have been covered loads over the years and i've read as many posts and opinions as I can find here and on other forums also but somethings i've never heard mentioned is the difference in remap methods, so I thought i'd ask the question.

There's alot of remappers out there that can apply either a generic or "custom" remap within an hour by simply downloading your ecu file via the OBD port. They then email the file off to their supplier who apparently re-writes the file based on what you specify. For example If I wanted 40bhp+extra 70Lb of torque they tweak the values in the file. The file is then emailed back to the distributor who promptly uploads it back onto customers car via the obd port. All of this can be achieved within an hour..possibly two. After the file is uploaded you go for a test drive. They call this a custom remap because the file is specific to you.

Other custom remappers have a rolling road and do a before and after run, but i've been told by the likes of AMD, jabba they can tailor the power output and torque to what I want. So if I wanted an extra 40bhp and 70LB torque, this would mean a few runs on the rollers and printouts to get it just right. With this method it means you would also get to see how smokey (or not) your vrs is on the rollers, so you could always get them to tune it down. Jabbasport told me a custom remap like this would mean half a day on the rollers. Can someone explain whether this method would also employ downloading the current ecu file then emailing it off (albeit a few times to get it right?) or is the runing all done in house with no external programme writer?

There's also a relatively new type of custom remap which rapid fit offer...its called the rapid fit pro and it puts the owner in control as you are provided with software,cables and "tuning unit" to allow you to exactly what a distributor would do..i.e. email your file off and then upload the modded file yourself. There's a video on their website explaining how its done. it looks very straightforward and if it really is that simple then I wonder why prices are so similar between the options.

Ok so with an explanation of this, i'd like to hear people's opinions on which method is best and why do some remappers emply one method and not the other? why do customers choose one over the other?

Having spent almost a year looking into this, reading opinions, who people use etc...i'm convinced most people on here go for the 1st method of uploading/emailing a file and no rolling road as it is pub talk and the proof is in how it drives.

Figures are thought of as pub talk but i'd like to think that seeing your beloved car on the rollers, seeing what it is producing, hearing it, checking how much smoke is coming out is helpful?

I have tried method one (in and out within 2 hours as had to wait for file to be emailed back and that took some time)but found it smoked very badly to the point I was stopped by the police....so i do think perhaps this could have been avoided if i had looked into a tuner with a rolling road.

thanks

Edited 26 January, 201016 yr by newskoda

Well mine was mapped by Angel Tuning using your method one, and tbh its been great - still well happy with it. Since having the standard PD150 turbo put on, there is no smoke at all which does suggest that the turbo is moving more air - and that another remap is needed, but she still runs fine so it will have to wait until I can afford to have the clutch done at the same time.

It all depends on the tuner I think, so you may have had a bad experience, yet I for one - have had a good one.

Si.

Well mine was mapped by Angel Tuning using your method one, and tbh its been great - still well happy with it. Since having the standard PD150 turbo put on, there is no smoke at all which does suggest that the turbo is moving more air - and that another remap is needed, but she still runs fine so it will have to wait until I can afford to have the clutch done at the same time.

It all depends on the tuner I think, so you may have had a bad experience, yet I for one - have had a good one.

Si.

hI,Thanks, but dont get me wrong the bad experience wasn't really bad...i just think my particular problem(loads of smoke) would have been best looked after by a remap which had a rolling road. Rather than a straight plug and play remap.

I've heard quite alot of good feedback about angel and their professionalism.Also very competitive pricing.

My custom remap took half a day to do, as the fella doing it reckoned he'd not seen a vRS with my exact map before, so didn't have one available to 'cut and paste' like in Option 1. I don't think he was just being lazy, because I was in the lounge at Awesome the whole time, and the car must have had about ten runs on the dyno before I got it back. Assuming that the supplier did have a compatible map for your car, though, I guess the differences between Option 1 and Option 2 are pretty slim for cars with no other modifications. Once you start adding things like de-cats, FMICs, bigger turbos etc, etc, then the only way you'll make the most of them is to have the map done with the benefit of a rolling road, or at least giving the tuner an opportunity to take the car on one or more test drives while the map's being tailored.

Unless I had the necessary training, I wouldn't touch the third option with a ten-foot bargepole. I've no reason to doubt the company's good intentions, but I certainly wouldn't want to risk bricking my ECU. At least if someone else is doing it, you have the Sale of Goods Act on your side...

As for the smoke, have you a. fitted a PD160 intake, and b. given the car a dose of injector cleaner? You won't see the smoke if your car's being remapped on a rolling road, though, as the exhaust should be hoooked up to an extractor to stop all the mechanics choking to death...

HTH

From my experience of both genric and custom maps I'd have to go for door number two everytime.

My previous Seat Ibiza PD130 (a Fabia VRS in a bright yellow curvy disguise) had a generic map done at Forge in Gloucester.

I was in the waiting room for about 2 hours and as far as I am aware the process included replacing the standard 130bhp ECU map with an Interpro one good for "approx 165bhp" - The map was fun and the power increase was good but the map had large spikes of power and torque meaning wheelspin aplenty

By contrast I collected my Fabia on 1st November and was at Jabba on the 5th for a remap and RARB!

Discussions beforehand with Jabba basically said they offered 2 set ups a generic and a custom.

The custom is written and tailored using Jabba's equipment and done on their rollers to suit your specific car. Including any additional mods it may have had (mine was a PD160 intake fitted on the day) or any problems encountered (ie a reduction of torque figure to reduce stress on a worn clutch etc)

The generic version simply downloads a map which is an average of all their maps and should provide a good result for most cars.

n my opinion the difference between generic and custom makes the extra cost (on my experience about half as much again) well worth it.

The custom Jabba map is a smooth curve with an increase right across the rev range making it much more driver friendly and with only minimal smoke after prolonged foot-down-ness rather than the peaky wheelspinny generic map I had before.

Not really sure if that answers your question but just my 2p worth - well actually more like a fivers worth!

I started a thread sometime ago about generic maps. If a tuning firm offer a Generic map giving you say 160 bhp but your car was producing 145 to start with your only going to gain 15 bhp where as if your car only produces 130 bhp you will gain an extra 30 bhp, " Am I correct in this or have I got the wrong end of the stick ". I am also lead to believe that the later Fabia Vrs's with the engine code BLT produced more BHP than the early Vrs's with the AZT engine code.....Correct or not ?........" Does all that make sense? "

I started a thread sometime ago about generic maps. If a tuning firm offer a Generic map giving you say 160 bhp but your car was producing 145 to start with your only going to gain 15 bhp where as if your car only produces 130 bhp you will gain an extra 30 bhp, " Am I correct in this or have I got the wrong end of the stick ". I am also lead to believe that the later Fabia Vrs's with the engine code BLT produced more BHP than the early Vrs's with the AZT engine code.....Correct or not ?........" Does all that make sense? "

Yes, yes, and er, yes.

Auric, I'm not sure you are intorely right. A car would come out of the dealership with a generic map that the manufacturer has produced for that engine. That engine will then produce on average the stated amount of horsepower. This figure is always affected by tolerances with the engine other factors which means your car will virtually never produce the stated horsepower, it will sometimes be more and sometimes less.

When a company puts a generic map on a car then the same principal applies, the map will produce an average gain. In your example the car with 130hp may go to 160 and the car with 145 will probably produce more on the generic map.

If a car is put on the rolling road once or twice while being tuned then the chances are you are only getting a generic tune anyway. To produce a trully specific map the the car would have to be put through many, many runs at many varying throttle inputs to get the parameters dead right for your car. Two runs at only full throttle is not enough to write a properly customized map, you would probably just get a lightly adjusted generic map.

Anyway a generic map is the result of many hours of tuning to one car to produce a map that works with that model so is probably 95% right anyway. The cowboys probably just whack the boost pressure up without adjusting the map much, you still get the power gains but not much else!

The two Fabia's probably produce different power because Skoda produced a new map for the car from the factory, in which case Angel or someone similar would produce a new map from that base.

Auric, I'm not sure you are intorely right. A car would come out of the dealership with a generic map that the manufacturer has produced for that engine. That engine will then produce on average the stated amount of horsepower. This figure is always affected by tolerances with the engine other factors which means your car will virtually never produce the stated horsepower, it will sometimes be more and sometimes less.

When a company puts a generic map on a car then the same principal applies, the map will produce an average gain. In your example the car with 130hp may go to 160 and the car with 145 will probably produce more on the generic map.

If a car is put on the rolling road once or twice while being tuned then the chances are you are only getting a generic tune anyway. To produce a trully specific map the the car would have to be put through many, many runs at many varying throttle inputs to get the parameters dead right for your car. Two runs at only full throttle is not enough to write a properly customized map, you would probably just get a lightly adjusted generic map.

Anyway a generic map is the result of many hours of tuning to one car to produce a map that works with that model so is probably 95% right anyway. The cowboys probably just whack the boost pressure up without adjusting the map much, you still get the power gains but not much else!

The two Fabia's probably produce different power because Skoda produced a new map for the car from the factory, in which case Angel or someone similar would produce a new map from that base.

This is the most accurate post out of all of the above, apart from the boost pressure part, as boost is less of a factor than fuel in a diesel's capacity to produce power (that's how tuning boxes can give more power without being able to alter the boost), but that's probably just me being pedantic. I imagine you meant the cowboys just turn a load of things up (including boost) to make it produce more power which invariably works, although not necessarily safely or smoothly.

Edited 26 January, 201016 yr by shark_90

This is the most accurate post out of all of the above, apart from the boost pressure part, as boost is less of a factor than fuel in a diesel's capacity to produce power (that's how tuning boxes can give more power without being able to alter the boost), but that's probably just me being pedantic. I imagine you meant the cowboys just turn a load of things up (including boost) to make it produce more power which invariably works, although not necessarily safely or smoothly.

There has to be a pedantic one!!

Dead right though obviously!

There has to be a pedantic one!!

Sorry!

My custom remap took half a day to do, as the fella doing it reckoned he'd not seen a vRS with my exact map before, so didn't have one available to 'cut and paste' like in Option 1. I don't think he was just being lazy, because I was in the lounge at Awesome the whole time, and the car must have had about ten runs on the dyno before I got it back. Assuming that the supplier did have a compatible map for your car, though, I guess the differences between Option 1 and Option 2 are pretty slim for cars with no other modifications. Once you start adding things like de-cats, FMICs, bigger turbos etc, etc, then the only way you'll make the most of them is to have the map done with the benefit of a rolling road, or at least giving the tuner an opportunity to take the car on one or more test drives while the map's being tailored.

Unless I had the necessary training, I wouldn't touch the third option with a ten-foot bargepole. I've no reason to doubt the company's good intentions, but I certainly wouldn't want to risk bricking my ECU. At least if someone else is doing it, you have the Sale of Goods Act on your side...

As for the smoke, have you a. fitted a PD160 intake, and b. given the car a dose of injector cleaner? You won't see the smoke if your car's being remapped on a rolling road, though, as the exhaust should be hoooked up to an extractor to stop all the mechanics choking to death...

HTH

Hi,

Yes can see where you're coming from on that sale of goods act perspective as i could easily screw it up and then suffer the cost of getting it fixed myself.

mines totally standard and has no PD160 intake. Before I took it for a remap I did get it services, oil, air filter,fuel filter change. Injector cleaner suitable for the pd engine has been used but only 2 or 3 times a year.

Auric, I'm not sure you are intorely right. A car would come out of the dealership with a generic map that the manufacturer has produced for that engine. That engine will then produce on average the stated amount of horsepower. This figure is always affected by tolerances with the engine other factors which means your car will virtually never produce the stated horsepower, it will sometimes be more and sometimes less.

When a company puts a generic map on a car then the same principal applies, the map will produce an average gain. In your example the car with 130hp may go to 160 and the car with 145 will probably produce more on the generic map.

If a car is put on the rolling road once or twice while being tuned then the chances are you are only getting a generic tune anyway. To produce a trully specific map the the car would have to be put through many, many runs at many varying throttle inputs to get the parameters dead right for your car. Two runs at only full throttle is not enough to write a properly customized map, you would probably just get a lightly adjusted generic map.

Anyway a generic map is the result of many hours of tuning to one car to produce a map that works with that model so is probably 95% right anyway. The cowboys probably just whack the boost pressure up without adjusting the map much, you still get the power gains but not much else!

The two Fabia's probably produce different power because Skoda produced a new map for the car from the factory, in which case Angel or someone similar would produce a new map from that base.

Nice read...........Thanks for that, Auric