Picked this off tyresmoke.net:

Quote:

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All new Audi cars from the new A3 production onwards will be fitted with a new diagnostic system called GEKO.

It will automatically link the cars ECU with the factory through a new link system. It will automatically identify differences from the original factory settings and overwrite them back. Customers who have modified the car may possibly not have repair work completed under warranty unless the ECU is recoded back to original factory settings, thus eliminating the modifications.

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Generally speaking whatever is on an Audi/VW will eventually find it's way into a Skoda.

I don't doubt however that any of the tuners, for which VAG models are a big market, won't find someway of by-passing this.

Cheers.

Adrian.

Hmmm...wonder how this link system will work...over GSM or something?

Whichever way, it sounds like a lot of money to achieve nothing. By the sound of

it all it does is rewrite settings, rather than alerting the nearest Audi mechanic

that a coilpack has gone...

Rob.

Very Germanic. "Ve haf vays of making you comply with our rules." I will believe this when I see it, but not until then. It is a spoof, isn't it? The manufacturer doesn't own the car once they have sold it and has no right to alter any settings etc without the owner's consent. And I can just imagine TaviaRS pulling out to complete a very tricky overtaking manoeuvre in his modified next generation vRS

Originally posted by DGW in this post

It is a spoof, isn't it?

At first, a mere look at the system's name told me so.

Remember a fictional character named Gordon Gecko saying, "The point is, ladies and gentleman, greed is good. Greed works, greed is right. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit."

But then my curiosity won me over, and I Googled to a Norwegian 2003 certification document for Volkswagen AG stating GeKo is a "database system for secret code data (for example, for immobilizing the engine)" - hope I got all the words translated right. I probably am, since my guess for the meaning of GeKo would be "Geheim Kode" (secret code).

Someone should get to the bottom of this...

Oh, only the TDI folk should become worried. VAG are ousting the cheap petrol turbos anyway, so I don't see them caring about said "big market".

Doesnt the mclaren f1 have a link up with the factory?

IIRC the McLaren F1 used a GSM modem. Which wouldn't be too bad considering how few

of the cars there are (and how much they cost), but I could imagine complications with the

number of Audis there are on the roads.

And it would really kill the exports to the US and Japan...

Rob.

I think that any "transmission" would be done whilst the car is having it's service.

I don't see the transmission being a problem seeing as it would be just like another mobile phone on the network.

What is of more interest is how this is charged to the customer i.e. how plays for the call? If it's a call back to Germany can you put in one of those cheaper service provider number and then dial the factory?

This is of course assuming the dealer uses the built in mobile phone.

May be this is prelude to online diagnostics where if you motor breaks down an ECU readout is sent to the recovery centre and then they can diagnose problem and send appropriate parts with recovery dude.

Hmmmmmmm......

Cheers.

Adrian.

Originally posted by SkodiRS in this post

May be this is prelude to online diagnostics where if you motor breaks down an ECU readout is sent to the recovery centre and then they can diagnose problem and send appropriate parts with recovery dude.

I think this is where its going, justified no doubt by some committment to improved customer service??? I suppose that nearly sounds like a good reason but has implications for the non-standard motor - unless they introduce more factory approved upgrades.

:cheers: Paul

If such a functionality down become standard I imagine all of the tuning market will be looking at ways of by passing this and provide a menas of switching back to stock program.

REVO and APR already provide such functionality.

Guys such a Jabba will have to look into adding a by-pass module.

Forgot to mention that all mobiles pone now have to have location functionality which allows networks to determine a mobiles location within a certain distance. This is for emergency services but can be adapted for recovery (which could be deemed an emergency service). It must be added that is American law but you can bet that it will be taken up by Europe at some point.

Cheers.

Adrian.

Originally posted by SkodiRS in this post

I don't see the transmission being a problem seeing as it would be just like another mobile phone on the network.

What is of more interest is how this is charged to the customer i.e. how plays for the call? If it's a call back to Germany can you put in one of those cheaper service provider number and then dial the factory?

This was the issue I was getting, all be it really really really

subtely :p Also, supposing you lived in the middle of nowhere,

with no coverage...would be as good as useless...

Rob.

I suspect somebody at the top of VAG has noticed that cars are being chipped, and tools like VAG.com are available. In all my years in IT (he said, stroking his long, white beard) one of the best ways of trying to solve a problem is to put things back to factory default -which is effectively what they're doing. I'm sure someone will find a way to "back up" the image from the ECU. I don't know how big the image would be, but I don't expect it'll be huge -and smartmedia and compact flash are dirt cheap these days.........

I think the transmission bit is a translation glitch -surely, this would happen via the diagnostic socket at service time?

Phil

Yeah, I kind of thought that they'd download the contents of the ECU, check it and if it was different upload the standard data.

That said over the air update is a real deal; I know as I'm working on something similar. It's mobile phone technology so it will be in cars within the next 2-3 years latest I reckon if not sooner.

Cheers.

Adrian.

I doubt they'll even download it. I suspect they'll do a checksum, and if it doesn't match, they'll delete it!

I'm not surprised that remote stuff will happen soon -GSM hardware must be available for pennies, these days.

Phil

Hmmm. This is a wee bit worrying. Certainately don't want to spend hundreds on a re-map only to have my dealer wipe it out at the touch of a button...

Personally, if I'd had a remap and they'd wiped it I would kick up an enormous

fuss. Much for the reason that i paid for the car so it's mine and I can do what

I like with it. It would be rather like spending a fortune on a custom paint job,

taking it in for a service and getting it back resprayed to the original colour!

Rob.

It would be rather like spending a fortune on a custom paint job, taking it in for a service and getting it back resprayed to the original colour!

And finding non-original but serviceable brake pads, discs, tyres, exhaust, stereo, battery, wiper blades, spark plugs, oil filter etc have all been replaced with original parts. That's why I think its is a load of ....................horlicks.

Originally posted by DGW in this post

That's why I think its is a load of ....................horlicks.

I agree entirely, but this seems to be the age of big brother (not just on the TV!). And I suspect we'll see this in some form or another. For all the very good reasons already described I don't think that 'resetting' a customers car would become practice, but I think detection of a none-standard vehicle would lead to loss of warranty care. I'm sure that dealers won't turn away an income generating opportunity; in fact this seems to open up more options for them.

I've seen something sort of similar already, in the US most states require a car to be emissions tested annually (this is separate from any sort of mechanical condition inspection) When the vehicle is being tested the computer carrying out the test goes "on-line" to the state vehicle authority computer to record the results (pass or fail). It's not quite the same as the main discussion but its going that way.

Thing is if we don't like it what can we do about it???

:cheers:

Paul

I am still waiting for my new Red vRS - but I can tell you some stories about other manufacturers.

The company I work for manufactures diagnostic tools for car manufacturers.

These tools are able to download new engine maps to flash eprom equipped ECUs.

Most new ECUS are flash eprom.

In the past the dealer used to use the diagnostic tool at every service to look for stored faults on the ECU.

If the customer complained about a driveability, hesitation etc. problem with their car, the dealer would check his system to see if a newer download was available for that engine. If so, they would download it.

Nowadays the service instructions have changed - the dealer must look to see if a newer download is available - and if so they download it automatically.

Now then - I have owned chipped cars that have been chipped via the serial port - this means that the dealer could put newer software in the car - over the top of my tune.

As the dealers do not like performance tunes - and the warranty is potentially void - it is very difficult to tell them not to do a download to your ECU - as they would want to know why!!!

As far as ownership is concerned this is a difficult subject - you own the ECU and the right to use the software in it - but not the software itself!

Most tuning companies that offer downloadable tunes give the customer a special key that contains their original and updated programs. These can be put back into the ECU at a nominal fee - but I would certainly be angry if I had to pay again because the dealer has erased my performance tune

Hope the above is clear!!!!!

Steve

That's an interesting angle, Steve.

So if I understand correctly, OBD tuning would run the risk of being overwritten. Now I am beginning to understand why it's so much cheaper (down to 300 euros in Belgium, that's 220 quid) than regular chipping.

Well I suppose we could all buy old American cars with 300bhp V8s.....no goddam serial port in a Hemi 'Cuda , is there?...

Originally posted by Dmac1969vRS in this post

Well I suppose we could all buy old American cars with 300bhp V8s.....no goddam serial port in a Hemi 'Cuda , is there?...

As long as it isn't a parallel port, I'm up for it

Q.

Mattijs - that is correct.

An OBD update just entails erasing the flash eprom and downloading the new file - it takes no more than 1/2 hour and you dont even get your hands dirty!!!

It is much easier than having to remove the ECU, open it up, desolder the old chip & replace it with a new one.

As the Skoda vRS ECU is flash downloadable - then theoretically, having a new chip fitted does not necessarily mean that this cannot be overwritten by the dealers diagnostic tool - especially as the tuning companies all state that it is not detectable by the VAG tool. This implies that the chip is identical to the original (except for the modified tune data).

Steve

Steve , is that why you're having a Jabbasport chip instead of a Revo ?

Well, actually the Jabbasport chip seems very good value - considering the before & after plots and the specific tuning work that they do on the car.

I have checked thier reputation on this and other VAG forums - with positive results & feedback.

At the end of the day, unless we dont take our cars to approved dealers (which we need to do during the warranty period - for the best support) - we always run the risk of them finding, deleting or overwriting our performance mods.

Steve