Having never had to make an insurance claim, let alone challenged one that gets rejected, I have no idea how the process works but is ignorance an excuse??

Given car buyers/owners/crashers/insurers range from the completely inept who just see it as transport up to us petrol heads; and that a lot of modifications (thinking remap, bigger brakes) would never get spotted/noticed by the bottom end of the scale does ignorance work as an excuse.

I know when i sold my last car if i hadn't mentioned it was remapped the guy was clueless and wouldn't have known, and i guess it's then down to him to declare it or not.

Many a time i have spoken to insurance sales people and filled in online forms that ask "is it a modified vehicle?"

Obviously knowing it is not standard and saying otherwise is fraudulent but if you genuinely didn't know that the vehicle wasn't as it had come out of the factory you'd answer "no" but i assume that'd be erisky answer??

Do modifications only get investigated in serious accidents or is it on all claims??

Are modifications investigated on a subjective basis? - "He crashed because he was going to fast. He was going to fast because the car is remapped. He hasn't told us about the remap. Oh dear"

Is it an absolute minefield??

Patsy - you'll be asking us next how and why the world began, and whether our existence is just part of a much bigger existence etc - that really does your head in :S

In answer to the question, it's difficult to declare what you don't know about, but even so, I can imagine if insurance companies subsequently find something out they'll probably try and wriggle. To be fair to them, it would be an easy get out for people to say "I didn't know it was there guv, honest". I think sometimes you have to put yourself in their position to see which point of view you'd take.

I'd guess that no, ignorance is not an excuse.

Is that fair?

No, but who ever said insurance was fair.

Their business model is to take money for premiums and then hope there are no claims/try not to pay out on claims.

insurance sucks donkey *ss, i ****ing hate it the robbing ********, you insure your vehicle because you have to its the law, yet if you make a claim which wasn't your fault they put your premium up the next year. ****ers

Edited 24 May, 201016 yr by DGW
The swear word filter is there for good reason - which doesn't include circumventing it.

It isn't an excuse.

Anyone buying a secondhand car should be asking: "has it been in an accident?", "any outstanding finance?", "is it modified?" and declaring accordingly to insurance.

Whether mods get investigated is down to an individual insurer. At the end of the day, if the car is modified and not declared as such, then you are in breach of contract and they have every right to refuse the claim, or even prosecute for fraud if they think it was done deliberately.

okay so say i bought an FMIC and removed my SMIC (Which im thinking of doing) Does that count as modifying? technically the car came with an intercooler, all i've done is sort of move it from the side to the front.

okay so say i bought an FMIC and removed my SMIC (Which im thinking of doing) Does that count as modifying? technically the car came with an intercooler, all i've done is sort of move it from the side to the front.

.....it came with wheels but I've put bigger ones on. It came with an engine, I've just made it faster,....the list goes on

okay so say i bought an FMIC and removed my SMIC (Which im thinking of doing) Does that count as modifying? technically the car came with an intercooler, all i've done is sort of move it from the side to the front.

Course it counts as modifying ! so why would you be moving it ? (to get more power) then thats a mod.

you change steel wheels to Alloys Why ? to make it look good, then again a mod, but yes it does not go any faster (might handle a bit better) so look at it this

way, you insure the car, fit very expencive wheels, but don't tell them, week later the car gets nicked, they pay out for your car but not the value of the wheels,

Would you be happy ?

So I do agree some mods you would think are a waste of time telling the insurance, but also its a good cop out not to pay out if they find a mod not declared.

My advice is to find a Good insurance company (not nessary the cheapest) and when it comes to claiming, no questions asked.

Radiotwo

Patsy - you'll be asking us next how and why the world began, and whether our existence is just part of a much bigger existence etc - that really does your head in

In answer to the question, it's difficult to declare what you don't know about, but even so, I can imagine if insurance companies subsequently find something out they'll probably try and wriggle. To be fair to them, it would be an easy get out for people to say "I didn't know it was there guv, honest". I think sometimes you have to put yourself in their position to see which point of view you'd take.

Sorry Brimdog I'm having a "deep" afternoon

Myself in the position of an insurance company? Awww Do i have to? I've grown quit attached to my soul!

I'd guess that no, ignorance is not an excuse.

Is that fair?

No, but who ever said insurance was fair.

Their business model is to take money for premiums and then hope there are no claims/try not to pay out on claims.

I know they are a business and there to make money and obviosuly if therre is any wiggle room they will try to get out of paying out.

If just dawned on me that the used car market must be a minefield.

insurance sucks donkey *ss, i ****ing hate it the robbing ********, you insure your vehicle because you have to its the law, yet if you make a claim which wasn't your fault they put your premium up the next year. ****ers

Don't worry. There are therapists out there to help people lke you!

It isn't an excuse.

Anyone buying a secondhand car should be asking: "has it been in an accident?", "any outstanding finance?", "is it modified?" and declaring accordingly to insurance.

Whether mods get investigated is down to an individual insurer. At the end of the day, if the car is modified and not declared as such, then you are in breach of contract and they have every right to refuse the claim, or even prosecute for fraud if they think it was done deliberately.

Asking the questions is fine but if the seller lies to you?

I'd like to point out all my mods are currently declared (and i haven't just had an accident) although i did spend a couple of months with an undeclared remap on the previous car.

okay so say i bought an FMIC and removed my SMIC (Which im thinking of doing) Does that count as modifying? technically the car came with an intercooler, all i've done is sort of move it from the side to the front.

Can open. Worms everywhere

Anything that makes it a better car or more desirable to theives shoudl be declared.

But my wiper blades are aero ones not standard ones, my headlight bulbs are also not the same as when it left the factory - those are mods too so should they declared as well?

But my wiper blades are aero ones not standard ones, my headlight bulbs are also not the same as when it left the factory - those are mods too so should they declared as well?

Mr Insurance man says......................Yes. You had the accident due to you having non standard wipers. Your non standard wipers did not clear the rain off effectively hence you could not see properly in the rain which is why you crashed........................Yes. You had the accident due to you having non standard bulbs.Your non standard bulbs were giving out less light than the standard ones, hence your visibility was not what it should have been in the dark which is why you crashed. :S

Mr Insurance man says......................

He says lots of things

Your non standard wipers did not clear the rain off effectively

Your non standard bulbs were giving out less light than the standard ones

Actually my wipers and bulbs are better than standard so i was perfectly able to see the hedge i crashed into because my (non-delcared larger) brakes didn't stop me in time for the corner i was attempting to drive too fast round (thanks to my non-declared remap)

Edited 20 May, 201016 yr by PastyBoy

Asking the questions is fine but if the seller lies to you?

Get it in writing with his signature on it. If he won't or you don't really trust them , walk away.

Buying 2nd hand privately is a minefield, from a dealer you have legal come-back.

Grrr, stupid forum-freeze :(

Edited 20 May, 201016 yr by Mike Wrightson

You have to ask yourself the question, how far are car insurers prepared to go to avoid paying out? Especially a potentially very expensive claim e.g. a death or serious injury. It's true they don't investigate every incident in meticulous detail but if the payout is large then they are more likely to reach for the fine toothed-comb and pleading ignorance won't get you far.

Last claim I made (a few years ago when I had a Rover 400) they didn't even bother to look at my car because they paid out for the 3rd party and I was happy to fix the car myself, all it needed was a new bumper and headlight. There were Rover 200 Vi alloys on it though which were fitted by a previous owner and which I didn't even know were Vi alloys until a year later when I sold the car myself. So yeah I could have been in trouble on that one... if they'd bothered to check.

I thought about this when I bought my Fabia a few weeks ago, I discovered a small switch by the handbrake which turned out to be for heated seats, but at the time I did wonder if the car had been remapped. I bought it from a dealer and they knew nothing about the switch when I called them.

If it turned out the car had been remapped, and I had an accident, I dont think it would have been fair to penalise me for a mod that I genuinely knew nothing about.

There is no answer to the question originally asked. I think it's fair to say that if you mod your car, do the sensible thing and tell the insurers.

Just my 2ps worth

I contacted my insurance company last night to add 2 peolpe on my policy. (£68 down the drain.. dam it) anywhos...

Asked about window tits to keep the puppy cool while we are out and about.. they said.. IF the tints are done via a skoda dealer .. premiums / excess etc dont go up. Id only pay admin fee to chang policy to state so..

Also was told that they wouldnt investigate until somthing happened *touch bonner* it doesnt.. So i could do with making sure i got an invoice stating the window film from skoda dealer to cover my back in the future..

Im gona start contacting skoda dealers see if they can do the honers for me

Asked about window tits....

If you do find a dealer who offers these please let me know!

Actually come to think of it I met up with another member the other week who had just bought a Mk1 Octy VRS from a (non-Skoda) dealership and wanted it fault code scanned as he said it felt a bit hesitant. As far as he knew it was kosher.

So after the scan, out of interest I switched on to boost readings. Standard is 10psi. Hmmm whats this... 15psi!!?!?

We then did a dyno run (private road obviously ) and it was putting out 209 bhp...

Now this guy had never driven a standard VRS to compare it to and had I not checked it he would've been driving around blissfully unaware of it having a remap

He was going to inform the insurance but obviously this means an increase in premium so I wonder if he would have any comeback on the garage he bought it from.

Edited 25 May, 201016 yr by chicken_eyebrow

If you do find a dealer who offers these please let me know!

OOPS hehehehe

right i thought i'd try and shed some light on this (as much as possible, i work in customer services for a few big brands)

as far as i know mods are split into two categories...........

performance: which is rated on the % increase in bhp of the vehicle

visual: basically goes onto cost of them

from what ive been told is that in the event of a claim and the insurer needs to pay out the mod's cost more than the standard parts therefore the bump in the premium

now a few brands are declining any new biz for cars with mods with a performance increase...... dont know whyy but they are

but another thing is that alot of times with claims, if you dont declare a mod (this isnt 100%) but if theyve not been declared they'll simply just charge you for them at the point of the claim, its the same with convictions therefore no claim and you wouldnt know

thats the way i see it from a consultants point of view but end of the day im just the monkey on the end of the phone

now a few brands are declining any new biz for cars with mods with a performance increase...... dont know whyy but they are

Percieved increase in risk, especially if it's a young driver modifying their car.

but another thing is that alot of times with claims, if you dont declare a mod (this isnt 100%) but if theyve not been declared they'll simply just charge you for them at the point of the claim, its the same with convictions therefore no claim and you wouldnt know

Thats a big if, ideally you'd ask for this in writing from your insurer but then it's obvious to them that you plan to do modifications.

Edited 27 May, 201016 yr by chicken_eyebrow

Insurance companies will do anything to avoid paying out, so if they can find anything, within reason, that you have not declared, they can invalidate your insurance and you may then be faced with the full cost of any claim, including 3rd party death & injury, I have unfortunately seen this happen to friends, one of whom died in such circumstances!

Having since gone through all this dilemma on numerous slightly modified Imprezas, by 'anything within reason' I mean this does not, normally, include the replacement of 'consumable parts' with near equivalent specs, so better brake pads may be allowed, but beware if they are e.g. MINTEX 1155 Race Pads (not technically passed for road use but brilliantly usable) it would be best to notify them. If your car is NOT bog standard then you would be best advised, and best covered, to use a modified specialist like *Greenlight/Adrian Flux etc. and tell them absolutely everything, they will not charge you for what they do not consider a higher risk and it will make any claim considerably less stressful and problematic! Any BHP increase MUST be declared and any corresponding brake mods may actually help to reduce this effect. In my experience they are also excellent value compared to some of the cheaper options for 'modified' vehicles.

I'm also quite sure that they wouldn't give a toss what wipers you have fitted as long as they pass the MOT They would, however, be very concerned about modified lighting!

*I have no connection with the above companies other than being a satisfied customer

Edited 2 October, 201015 yr by CharlieWhiskey