Way to expensive the 20k is a starting point. Try speccing it up and your soon heading towards the 24k - 25k hope the new vrs doesn't show a similar hike in price !!

they dont sound like happy bunnys thats for sure

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46800

If you have 15' date='000 spend you cant do better than a Leon Cupra.

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You could always spend 13.5k on an Octy RS, remap it & do the brakes.

Better than a Manuel-mobile in virtually every respect.

No your right they are not happy bunny's at all but at least there are a few people who are sensible about it.

at least the Leon Cupra got a mention and they are bitching about the fact they Jeremy forgot to mention 'R'.

all the cars mentioned are good cars,very good cars and each appeals to different people for many different reasons,image/cost etc.

i like many others here probably drove a few of the others while deciding and finally chosing either a Octavia or a Fabia so it all comes down to personal choice.

I had a quick play with both a 3 door and a 5 door GTI last week....very nice. The 3 door does look much better than the 5 door version though. The engine and DSG are brilliant and do look the part under the bonnet. Very nice disc brakes also....Red in colour looking surprisingly like the calipers on our beloved vRS's

what about the new 3 door astra aswell' date='the quick version is gonna have 241bhp as standard,thats a easy 280+bhp once tuned,and for under 20K,shame its a Vauxhall though.

it did look very good aswell,nice and sharp.[/quote']

IIRC, the last hot Astra was universally panned for being WAAAAAYYYY too powerful for the dodgy chassis. Apparently it was driveable with the traction control on, but you only ever got about 150-160 bhp out of it. With the traction control off, it was just all over the place. Even worse than the Focus RS. I don't think it had more than about 220 bhp from its 2.2 litre turbo engine, so I hope the new Astra can handle the 10% power hike...

No your right they are not happy bunny's at all but at least there are a few people who are sensible about it.

at least the Leon Cupra got a mention and they are bitching about the fact they Jeremy forgot to mention 'R'.

Surely they should be happy, or at least keeping their mouths shut. If the standard Cupra is slower than the standard Golf, and the R only just faster, the value for money argument is devalued a bit, isn't it!

Exactly my thoughts

Personally I'd rather spend 20K on the R32

Why on earth do VW persist on making a gti then producing a faster golf like the ridiculously named R32(I understand the connection to the engine thanks!)

They are going to do it again with this GTI which will will be blown away buy the nextR32 or 34 or whatever.

Why???what is the strategy behind it.Why not just make the GTI the quickest of the golfs .If skoda brought out the vRS then started fiddling with another version and make it quicker call it a Z42 or whatever, I would be peeved.

It's like the lottery now.I havn't got a clue which ticket or game I'm buying for.It all gets to much .Keep it simple.'OOOh an R32' doesn't quite roll off the tongue (mind you it rhymes)

Why???what is the strategy behind it.Why not just make the GTI the quickest of the golfs .

It's about brand - the GTi isn't about being the quickest Golf, it's about selling to people who want the GTi badge on a Golf...which is why they made the affordable 2.0 version of the Mk4, as well as the 1.8T. And why Renault made the Clio Williams, then the 172/182, despite also producing the V6...

Rob.

looked rather tasty i have to say came out really well,shame about the price though.

l drove 1 the other day, GREAT car, and if the new vRS is based on it, with maybe 20bhp more and a few grand cheaper, we are all in for a treat

I understand part of it but the biggest argument against the golf GTI was that over the years they had diluted everything that it stood for and had made it such a success.Such was the criticism that VW have supposedly gone all out to build a car that was 'true to the original' and not just a badge.

The last R32 seemed to be VW saying' we can still build a hot hatch,look'. I think it(R32) was and is a great car.If they are truly getting back to a ' GTI king of the hot hatches' attempt though and not a badge purchase, then I would have expected them to have given it the works.

They will sell loads I know.Just doesn't seem right to me.The R32 should have the GTI badge or the GTI will still simply be a quick car but not the quickest golf out there and therefore still a marketing tool and not the true GTI in the golf line up.It will just be the'R' badge denoting a performance golf in this day and age and not GTI :RIP: :weeping:

Anyone know what the new' R' will be pumping out

I understand part of it but the biggest argument against the golf GTI was that over the years they had diluted everything that it stood for and had made it such a success.Such was the criticism that VW have supposedly gone all out to build a car that was 'true to the original' and not just a badge.

The original was a lightweight hatckback with a 100bhp engine - it wasn't about being the most powerful thing on the road...

The only reason the GTI has been receiving increasingly more powerful engines is to try and keep the performance figures decent while increasing the weight. However, heavy cars just don't handle like light ones, and they never will...no matter how powerful they make any Golf Mk5, it will still be a bit rubbish. It will weigh loads, so it won't be as chuckable - to keep it from sliding off the road, it will have to have huge wheels, so it will need power steering, hence you'll lose some of the feel of the car.

The GTi *is* a badge exercise, and making it universally accessible to all those people who want one will ensure it sells well...

Rob.

Agreed .But at the time of the original,100bhp was not bad in a car(30 yrs ago?) and what VW inadvertantly did was invent the 'hot hatchback'.Not the fastest thing on the road,but the fastest or best in its class of car.Something they weren't expecting to do(wasn't it some rebel engineers playing with a golf after hours) and something that gave VW a car with virtually no rivals.GTI and performance hatches were born

Others bettered this by some margin and VW's 'hot hatch' was no longer hot.The GTE's, SRI's,GSI's ,RS'swere all flooding in with their take on magical letters that people could utter and people would say think it was a hot hatch.

Yes ,things have moved on and VW got left behind but are trying to(and have made a good job) of bringing a credible GTI back.My only point is that in the huge market that is hot hatchbacks it is certainly not the GTI that is VW's super hot hatch,it is the R which is a shame.

GTI is just a badge on a good car(which I guess the new vRS will humble.Again )

If skoda brought out the vRS then started fiddling with another version and make it quicker call it a Z42 or whatever, I would be peeved.

What? You mean exactly like what Skoda plan on doing with the Fabia

what VW inadvertantly did was invent the 'hot hatchback'.Not the fastest thing on the road,but the fastest or best in its class of car.

Hmm...well, according to VW history, yes...but there were a couple of manufacturers doing who were actually doing it first, and with more powerful cars. Was the marketing that sold it...

Rob.

For all I have said, it is still a tempting prospect if the new vRS Octavia is priced not far off the golf(proper GTI or not )

For all that I love the vRS the new one will have to outdo the golf in a lot of areas to be a reasonably safe place to put your money.This golf will hold value like the mini.Although I think octavia 2nd hand values getting better I don't think they will fare that well still.

As for the marketing,I like the new advert for it too.I am being brainwashed :eek:

the golf in a lot of areas to be a reasonably safe place to put your money.This golf will hold value like the mini.

According to this month's group test in TG magazine, they reckoned it would actually depreciate relatively steeply - apparently more so than a 1-series (think it was the 2.0 petrol version of this). Admittedly predicting depreciation doesn't really mean a whole lot, as only time will tell, but if the murmurs are there now, you have to wonder...

As for the marketing,I like the new advert for it too.I am being brainwashed :eek:

Well, it is a good advert. Believe Mint Royale actually did the music for it, and it will be released as a single at some point - so get used to hearing it...

Rob.

The original was a lightweight hatckback with a 100bhp engine - it wasn't about being the most powerful thing on the road...

The only reason the GTI has been receiving increasingly more powerful engines is to try and keep the performance figures decent while increasing the weight. However' date=' heavy cars just don't handle like light ones, and they never will...no matter how powerful they make any Golf Mk5, it will still be a bit rubbish. It will weigh loads, so it won't be as chuckable - to keep it from sliding off the road, it will have to have huge wheels, so it will need power steering, hence you'll lose some of the feel of the car.

The GTi *is* a badge exercise, and making it universally accessible to all those people who want one will ensure it sells well...

Rob.[/quote']

The original 110bhp GTI, (I had one of the first 5 speed ones) was a really great car in its time. Sure the Alfasud, Allegro 1750ss (cough) , Escort Rs 2000 and others were out there already (not all hatchbacks I accept) but the GTI was just so special.

It was very fast for the time but had so so handling and brakes so weak that even my fab vrs stoppers seem great in comparison. Urban mythology will indicate that the once great handling GTI has gone sloppy of late. Well the gone sloppy bit is true but don't believe that the original was a great handling car. It was fast because it was so light but the alfasuds and rs2k's of the day would easily out handle it

It is not just weight that has caused the GTI crown to slip over the years - increasing weight has impacted on all new cars and the next Okty vrs will weigh as much as Golf Mk5. No, the last few have not been designed as focused drivers cars but the new one really has been. It is good and will run rings round the MK1 despite the extra weight.

As for price, well a product is worth what the market is prepared to pay for it. VW maket and price the GTI as premium product and it is really selling. The fact that we may not agree will not sway them. Pointing out reliability issues will not change this. very few prestige cars feature in top 10% of J D Power survey.

My wife may well buy one because she likes it. It - the car, not the badge - and many others will buy the car because it is really very nice.