Hi,

Just a quick couple of questions.

Looking at maybe putting a K&N air filter on my vRS I heard that some times it can muck up a diesel is this the case?.

Also I was going to go for the Celtic Tuning Remap however after doing some research it seems that there best to avoid. I have looked into the revo remap and have wondered if anyone has has this done on their Fabia vRS.

Cheers

Chris

Filter wont "muck up" a diesel, but you need to be VERY careful of heatsoak, which will damage performance. Best induction kit to go for is a closed or shielded one :thumbup

As for the remap, i've no experience with REVO but they appear to be popular on the forum...........

What about angel tuning? Are they any good!

Angel Tuning i would HIGHLY recommend A few people i know (including my DAD!) have had Angel map their cars with NO issues Paul is always helpful and full of knowledge

angel tuning are ****e, stay away from that sort of mapping company, 2nd do not put an open cone filter on your car as you will be going through MAF sensors every 2 weeks, your MPG will drop and you will have very poor volumetric efficiency.

go for a panel filter, like jetex or piper cross and the PD160 intake. happy days

angel tuning are ****e, stay away from that sort of mapping company.

Care to elaborate why?

Why are Angel Tuning shi*te? Cant make a sweeping comment like that and not justify it

Never had any problems running them IF they are fitted and shielded properly. Been modding cars for a LONG time and NEVER went through a MAF due to an induction kit.......

Edited 27 May, 201016 yr by vRS Dovit

there maps are known for making well under the stated figures when dyno proven.

second, the oil from K an N oil filters alone ruins MAF sensors. an open cone filter on a diesel will go through MAF sensors for fun. the performance losses are very gradual and generally unnoticed for a long time until the PD engine develops flat spots.

thirdly, i have been tuning and modifying cars for a number of years now. as well as building several cars including a 160hp saxo VTS aswell as being involved in the creation and running of the first ever TU5 J4 engine running throttle bodies on the OEM management i have fast amounts of mechanical knowledge.

i am pretty much around race spec engines and cars every week and a chief fabricator at a well known air suspension company, i can tell you all sorts of random stuff, even how a spoiler works using bernoulis therum.

when i give someone advice its because its tried an tested and im trying to help, please don not question it

i have spent far too many hours of my life at rolling roads for my own cars aswell as others so i know a fair bit about mapping cars too.

if you have any sensible questions feel free to PM me and ill help the best i can.

Thanks

your not the only one on here that has spent vast ammounts of time around cars, engines, tuners etc etc etc.

When giving advice, dont give people the "please do not question it" patter. A simple back up what you say instead of making a sweeping statement. People on here are not out to ridicule or make fun of others, just to get facts and help. I'm 32 and been around the modifying/race "scene" since i was 12, was a mechanic for a while before persuing a different career.

I'm not here to start a "i'm better than you" argument, too old for that carry on.

As for the Angel Tuning figures on mapping, i've had a few cars mapped by the one up here (scotland) and have found them to be a couple of bhp out.

an open cone filter on a diesel will go through MAF sensors for fun. the performance losses are very gradual and generally unnoticed for a long time until the PD engine develops flat spots.

Im not questioning your knowledge but I merely would like an understanding why rather than someone experienced simply to tell me otherwise..

I know not much about diesel..turbo.. nor great deal of technical detail on MAF's and how delicate they are.. ru saying ALL cone filters kill diesel MAF's? you've implied that ALL open cones does this, what if it was closed? or forced induction?

Thanks!

P.S. Oh, hi Davie. Lol thanks for your PM, lots of good info, just inquiring more.. planning on custom alu box design atm. for the piperX kit

Edited 27 May, 201016 yr by JLneonhug

Lol hows things

its more the over oil of an induction kit that will cause a MAF to fail (might be wrong.......)

Closed kits are good as they shield from the heat......again could be wrong

Im not questioning your knowledge but I merely would like an understanding why rather than someone experienced simply to tell me otherwise..

I know not much about diesel..turbo.. nor great deal of technical detail on MAF's and how delicate they are.. ru saying ALL cone filters kill diesel MAF's? you've implied that ALL open cones does this, what if it was closed? or forced induction?

Thanks!

P.S. Oh, hi Davie. Lol thanks for your PM, lots of good info, just aquiring more.. planning on custom alu box design atm. for the piperX kit

Open cone filter without FMIC = bad.

im really not a fan of open cone filters at all as i have seen nothing but bother with them and cars suffering lag in performance from the heat soak as well as returning silly low MPG.

enclosed filters are the way forward, every F1 car since the 60s has had an enclosed filter, what does that tell you?

try to use either;

a; de restricted OEM intake with a less "oily" panel filter

or

b; an enclosed induction kit like a BMC CDA for example.

MAF sensors are very very fragile. they are constructed of a fine "mesh" that tells your ECU what temperature and how dense the air particles are passing through it. it then alter your fuelling and to a degree your ignition advance / retard to suit.

this is performance hindering, and can be caused by open cone filters / much / oil etc etc ( even oil off the panel filter its self )

I've had my BMC CDA on my car now for the best part of 20k and been through one MAF, but that was absolutely nothing to do with the BMC, my coolant pipe that runs near the MAF burst and saturated it as i didn't see it had burst so it was spraying everywhere when under load

I'm also running an Angel Tuning map, had it on for a week now and done close to 1000 miles with it after running a map from a different tuning company and the difference is night and day, and Paul the guy who runs Angel Tuning in Scotland is brilliant, extremely helpful and knows exactly what he's talking about when it comes to tuning cars. So elaborate more before spitting on a companies namesake! Have you ever used them? Or just going on hearsay?

I know about the oils etc soaking through i have heard of this but my mate has had his K&N panel filter on his car now for 30k and not had any issues with it, but again thats not to say it doesn't/can't happen. An open cone though i wouldn't reccomend due to heatsoak unless you can get it somewhere away from heat and maximise cold air intake. An enclosed system is definately the best option!

hi juego, how does your mate know his MAF sensor isnt knackered?

it doesnt show up on diagnostics or VAGCOM im afraid.

and as previously mentioned, dyno experience and rolling road days matey. i have seen a few cars with the maps mentioned above make well below the quoted power figures. i mean 10 to 20hp less.

im passing on what i know and what i have learnt over the years helping forum members who want help.

im not after an argument chaps.

As i said if you run an open cone ensure it's boxed away as much as possible or buy a CDA

In my case, i have a shielded open cone AND a front mount on my car. Been running the kit and on my usual 22mile round trip, the MPG has dropped maybe 1 or 2mpg.

Surely, if you want to run an induction kit of any form, your "mapper" will accomodate this..............well mine does anyway..............

No one on here is after an argument, BUT i'm quite sure it wasn't Angel Tuning in Scotland you used. Yes they use Generic maps but i ALWAYS ask for a modified/custom map which costs slightly more but give better results for my requirements.

Fair play if thats what you've found out, but not all are the same buddy..............

Edited 27 May, 201016 yr by vRS Dovit

Im going to diverge slightly from the topic (well sort of).

What makes an enclosed box effective? I was simply planning on mimicking the original air box using alu 1mm?, foam padding on the inside for insulation (er.. read it on internet somewhere says its good), then alu piping (50cm dia.) to the front of the car, where the original entry hole is.

Im sure there are mathmatics to size of box and pressure etc etc.. but without getting TOO complicated.. is there a general rule of thumb?

Edited 27 May, 201016 yr by JLneonhug

You have a FMIC, thats different. with a FMIC over 100% volumetric efficiency is achievable (due to air being under pressure obviously)

and yes, agreed there on the mapping.

what dyno does angel use then?

what did it make on a before and after power run?

how long did it take to map?

thanks

Boxed helps to reduce the amount of "heatsoak" gathered from the engine and causes a "forced" induction effect. This basically means no outside air is getting to the filter apart from through the ram pipe that is at the front of the car.

Cold air = good

Hot air = bad

Cos his car drives the same as it did the day he put it in, i've driven it aswell and experiencing a knackered MAF i can tell if it's fine or not. My MAF done 4/5k knackered as i didn't know my warranty covered it till my work phoned and asked

I'm not after an arguement either nor am i doubting you're knowledge but i don't see the point saying things when theres only a small chance it's gonna happen. As i said my BMC's been on for 20k now and it was new when i got it. Just remembered aswell my other 2 mates Fabia VRS' ran panel filters and both are fine, well one is the other one got pinballed off barriers on the motorway :(

I would highly reccomend Angel up here after talking to Paul the guy who runs it. Other companies using the name might not be as good. Also it could just have been the cars? No car produces the BHP it's meant to. Some are higher as standard some are lower than quoted by the manufacturer as standard. Guy on the Clio forum i used to use, his Clio 197 ran 120bhp at the wheels! His cars was full service history etc

End of the day, alot of tuning is also down to personal preference, who does the work, how well maintained the car is etc etc etc

the phrase "swings and roundabouts" comes to mind.......................

Boxed helps to reduce the amount of "heatsoak" gathered from the engine and causes a "forced" induction effect. This basically means no outside air is getting to the filter apart from through the ram pipe that is at the front of the car.

Cold air = good

Hot air = bad

Does the difference in size of the enclosure relate to the amount of pressure?

I.e.

small box.. air pushed in, engine cannot accommodate all the air.. air pressure builds up..

vs

big box.. air pressure does not increase as much due to enough air volume in the box to accommodate engine, potentially leading to low air transfer, thus air will be heated.

But.. when car is stationary..

small box.. small air volume.. will be heated up faster.. tendency to have heatsoak effect.

vs

big box.. more volume required to heat up air.. air keeps cooler for longer duration.. less likely for heatsoak effect..

Edited 27 May, 201016 yr by JLneonhug

You have a FMIC, thats different. with a FMIC over 100% volumetric efficiency is achievable (due to air being under pressure obviously)

and yes, agreed there on the mapping.

what dyno does angel use then?

what did it make on a before and after power run?

how long did it take to map?

thanks

Its an independant RR that all the Jap car boys go to. VERY VERY accurate as thats the guys job, so to speak. Not had my Octy RR'd yet but my vRS standard 137bhp and when mapped ran 185bhp. After doing some more modifications to the car i never had it RR after that but, i had it remapped, FMIC, clutch uprated and hoses uprated.

My FR 1.8t ibiza was 148bhp standard and was mapped with an induction kit and Bailey recirc, made 180bhp. My 120 SRi Vec RR standard at 122bhp and was mapped to 175bhp (8v head) but that was far as she would go, TBH i think i asked too much and pushed it a little

Unfortunately i cant remember the torque values (paperwork is somewhere) but all my cars (excpet the Vec) were ran within safe limits and were mapped to what i wanted.

Oh yeah meant to add when my MAF was knackered my management light came on and it showed up both on vagcom and on my works diagnostics machine. But I do know this doesn't always happen. Got several vw mechanic mates and skoda mechanic mates and all said it won't show up then one of them vagcom'd it and it confirmed maf was gubbed

But my cars a damned weirdo! Haha

Does the difference in size of the enclosure relate to the amount of pressure?

I.e.

small box.. air pushed in, engine cannot accommodate all the air.. air pressure builds up..

vs

big box.. air pressure does not increase as much due to enough air volume in the box to accommodate engine, potentially leading to low air transfer, thus air will be heated.

But.. when car is stationary..

small box.. small air volume.. will be heated up faster.. tendency to have heatsoak effect.

vs

big box.. more volume required to heat up air.. air keeps cooler for longer duration.. less likely for heatsoak effect..

Not sure about the size of the airbox TBH If you were looking down that route, i'd try to keep it the same size etc.

I can see where your coming from in regards to temp/volume of and in the box..........i'd need to look more into it, maybe someone on here might be helpful and know more about that particular question

hmm.....

I havent been on briskoda very long but it seems to be a very noobish forum which is a shame really.

not to worry.

VRS Dovy; please learn the difference between forced induction, ram air induction and the epic fail of all Naturally Aspirated tuning, open to atmosphere / open cone filters .

Juego; performance in HP is always given at flywheel from an engine dyno. a clio 197 does not have 197hp at the wheels. for all any of us know he could of had one with a severe transmission loss thus causing the low power run.

im not going to post on this topic any longer as it baffles me the level of inferior mechanical knowledge in question.

i was only trying to help this person make an educated decision and unfortunately its turned sour.

not to worry, lesson learned.