This topic always makes me laugh. In that everyone can see (from outside the fence of the refinery, or better still from sitting in their car at the fuel station as the tanker delivers its fuel) exactly what additives had been added at the refinery to each tanker. Beggars belief how people can see inside the tanker and know exactly what's in it or what was squirted in it at the refinery. Eh? Magic eyes?! Furthermore they actually think if the side of the tanker says "Fairy Liquid" that no matter where it is parked it will be pumping "Fairy Liquid" into the fuel station's tanks!!! Eh?! Or that if one refinery supplies the fuel to a lot of different brands that every single tanker leaving said refinery has the same fuel in it. Eh?!?! How can you see that?! Ask anyone that works at a refinery and they will tell you there are lots of different additives at this refinery from all the different fuel companies. A computer controls which gets added to which tanker truck and voila so it mixes Shell, BP, Total and even god forbid Supermarket fuel from the SAME refinery. Just like Greggs the baker can bake croissants and bread from the SAME bakery by using different ingredients at their disposal. Who would have thought that eh?! Just like magic.

Now the second bit of magic. A car's computer takes about two tanks before it will adjust itself to a new fuel mix/type. So to expect, or even remotely feel a difference in your car's performance (or lack of) after changing fuel, is also like expecting Harry Potter's wand to be real. Wait two tanks on the new fuel before you comment on any changes.

2) The Duel Mass Flywheel is a weak poor design. That's why they fail and people have to replace them with old fashioned solid flywheels. A case of a problem that did not need fixing, and when it was, fixed with a sub-standard weak design. Other manufactures also have DMF's but they are adequate designs and rarely fails ie BMW - but of course these cars cost more.

I have to disagree slightly. There are several forums that will show that the DMF is a poor design no matter which manufacturers vehicle they are fitted to. BMW manual gearbox diesels are plauged by DMF failures. Their diesels also have the issue of swirl-valves/flaps failing and being ingested into the engine with the expected terminal outcome.

I have to disagree slightly. There are several forums that will show that the DMF is a poor design no matter which manufacturers vehicle they are fitted to. BMW manual gearbox diesels are plauged by DMF failures. Their diesels also have the issue of swirl-valves/flaps failing and being ingested into the engine with the expected terminal outcome.

Hi, well in general I think you are right ...

- I was only going off the experience I had in owning a Rover 75 diesel - which had plenty of reliability problems, but the DMF seemed to be OK (Its the 2ltr BMW lump of course). Certainly it was the one thing on the 75 owners club forum that was never moaned about. The clutches used to go and were very expensive to replace - but not the DMF - and it didn't have a DPF, the only emissions equipment being an EGR which used to block up.

This topic always makes me laugh. In that everyone can see (from outside the fence of the refinery, or better still from sitting in their car at the fuel station as the tanker delivers its fuel) exactly what additives had been added at the refinery to each tanker. Beggars belief how people can see inside the tanker and know exactly what's in it or what was squirted in it at the refinery. Eh? Magic eyes?!

I'm assuming that by dismissing everyone elses claims that you can in fact see through the fence and into the tankers to support your particular slant on this topic?

Hi Chaps,

I wrote to which asking them if they'd done a comparison between supermarket and branded diesel. This is the response I got

Hello Adrian

Thanks for your email about diesel fuel and please accept my apologies for the delay in response.

I've been liaising with our car researchers regarding your comments. They've stated that comparing different fuels is very time-consuming and expensive - and when we've done so in the past we've found there isn't much difference between them. Also, it's not as simple as you might think as some Tesco petrol stations use Esso fuel, some Sainsburys use BP, and so on...

A long motorway run once a month should prevent any Diesel Particular Filter problems.

I trust this answers your query.

Please do let me know if you would like any further advice.

Regards

Andrew Collins

Service Support Adviser

Which?

I'll leave you to make your own minds up. To me the solution is simple- SWMBO's 1.9PD Seat gets supermarket stuff, my Octy gets branded..... best of both worlds

Since getting mine, I've used nothing but VPower, don't know the difference either way - I do 10 miles to work each way everyday (well Mon to Fri). I used to have a 58 plate Vectra Diesel (from new) and I had issues with soot build up (EGR??) and since getting this, I suspect putting VPower in eases the concience as I want to use the cleanest fuel given my relatively short journey which is mainly city driving. Before anyone asks why I bought a diesel - the offer on the Blackline was too enticing, plus I like diesels. Whether its any better than the standard fuel I have no clue but I'd rather take my chances with it.

This topic always makes me laugh. In that everyone can see (from outside the fence of the refinery, or better still from sitting in their car at the fuel station as the tanker delivers its fuel) exactly what additives had been added at the refinery to each tanker. Beggars belief how people can see inside the tanker and know exactly what's in it or what was squirted in it at the refinery. Eh? Magic eyes?! Furthermore they actually think if the side of the tanker says "Fairy Liquid" that no matter where it is parked it will be pumping "Fairy Liquid" into the fuel station's tanks!!! Eh?! Or that if one refinery supplies the fuel to a lot of different brands that every single tanker leaving said refinery has the same fuel in it. Eh?!?! How can you see that?! Ask anyone that works at a refinery and they will tell you there are lots of different additives at this refinery from all the different fuel companies. A computer controls which gets added to which tanker truck and voila so it mixes Shell, BP, Total and even god forbid Supermarket fuel from the SAME refinery. Just like Greggs the baker can bake croissants and bread from the SAME bakery by using different ingredients at their disposal. Who would have thought that eh?! Just like magic.

Now the second bit of magic. A car's computer takes about two tanks before it will adjust itself to a new fuel mix/type. So to expect, or even remotely feel a difference in your car's performance (or lack of) after changing fuel, is also like expecting Harry Potter's wand to be real. Wait two tanks on the new fuel before you comment on any changes.

I kind of agree with most of that, but not the last paragraph. I agree that if you too up a half full tank it will take a while for the 'premium' fuel to get round, but the emptier it is, the less time it will take to make a difference (assuming it does make a difference).

If we're assuming im the fuel grade will make a difference then it won't need the ECU to 'learn' that it's there.

Obviously any cleaning benefits may be preventative or may take much longer to benefit te engine......

Hi Chaps,I wrote to which asking them if they'd done a comparison between supermarket and branded diesel. This is the response I gotHello AdrianThanks for your email about diesel fuel and please accept my apologies for the delay in response.I've been liaising with our car researchers regarding your comments. They've stated that comparing different fuels is very time-consuming and expensive - and when we've done so in the past we've found there isn't much difference between them. Also, it's not as simple as you might think as some Tesco petrol stations use Esso fuel, some Sainsburys use BP, and so on...A long motorway run once a month should prevent any Diesel Particular Filter problems.I trust this answers your query.Please do let me know if you would like any further advice.RegardsAndrew CollinsService Support AdviserWhich?I'll leave you to make your own minds up. To me the solution is simple- SWMBO's 1.9PD Seat gets supermarket stuff, my Octy gets branded..... best of both worlds

Greenergy is probably the largest supplier of fuels to the UK Garages, its at least 35% owned by Tesco. The Momentum they supply to Tesco has serious issues which have been debated at length on many car forums. Remember the issues a few years ago with Tescos petrol read the second post here http://www.thinkyped...question/60174/

Supermarkets are about buying as cheap as you can & selling for max profit. If their fuel is cheaper there is a reason, they cant do magical things that the Major refiners cant do.Its your car so its your call, Personally I keep my cars for many miles so will always avoid supermarkets if at all possible.

Must admit however Ive tried Horsemeat in France & its pretty tasty so I might see if our local branch has any Value Burgers left

Edited 16 January, 201313 yr by Stuart_J

I would challenge you to drive my cars with or without supermarket fuel, and judge for yourself. But that ain't going to happen 'cos supermarket fuel is not going any where near my cars........... Believe me, at least 4 VAG diesels with the same behaviour? No, I'll stick to Shell or Texaco.

Mike

Mike, have you tried 80% Paraffin and 20% Vegetable oil mixed ?

I understand that Morrisons fuel both Petrol and Diesel contain higher levels of Bio fuel than other brands , used in my last car Focus 1.6 Diesel and motorcycle both gave poorer performance and fuel economy than using Esso from a mile away costing 1p per litre more

I'll stick to the esso 1p per will not break the bank

To clear a DPF requires heat. Diesel exhaust heat is tied to engine load. For this reason it is much better to provide this heat from high load rather than high rpm. High rpm will work, but not as well, as higher piston speed effectively retards the timing and lets the ECU heat the exhaust more for the same load than at lower rpm.

I've only done 10,000km or so in my 2.0PD DPF, but I have had no issues. I plug VCDS in and it tells me burns are taking place, they are just impossible to pick while driving.

This topic appears on most vehicle forums and everyone has their own opinion on which fuel is best.

My experience of running a TSI Vrs for 12 months and 20k almost excessively on Vpower was that the engine response and economy was better. I did run it on standard Shell for a month (2k miles) doing the same journeys and documented a 4 mpg difference and knew the engine was not as crisp or powerful.

I have now covered 16k in 8 months in my CR Vrs, doing the same mileage. I ran it on Shell diesel for first 10k and now run on Vpower (6k). The engine is smoother, quieter, and more punchy but MPG is down 2-3 MPG. It smells different to standard diesel??? has a higher cetane rating, and apparently better additive/cleaning package.

I am going to keep it on Vpower and enjoy my car.

I think that until a proper test is done with identical cars over a decent mileage, doing the same journey, with the same driving style, we will not have a precise answer. I would also want to see the engines stripped down to assess how the injectors, EGR etc fair over high mileage on the different fuels.

This topic appears on most vehicle forums and everyone has their own opinion on which fuel is best.

My experience of running a TSI Vrs for 12 months and 20k almost excessively on Vpower was that the engine response and economy was better. I did run it on standard Shell for a month (2k miles) doing the same journeys and documented a 4 mpg difference and knew the engine was not as crisp or powerful.

I have now covered 16k in 8 months in my CR Vrs, doing the same mileage. I ran it on Shell diesel for first 10k and now run on Vpower (6k). The engine is smoother, quieter, and more punchy but MPG is down 2-3 MPG. It smells different to standard diesel??? has a higher cetane rating, and apparently better additive/cleaning package.

I am going to keep it on Vpower and enjoy my car.

I think that until a proper test is done with identical cars over a decent mileage, doing the same journey, with the same driving style, we will not have a precise answer. I would also want to see the engines stripped down to assess how the injectors, EGR etc fair over high mileage on the different fuels.

Read this http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/media/Auto_Express_Fuel_Test_-_January_2010.shtml

Then This http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/media/press/Thorney_Motorsport_Withdraws_Recommendation_for_Tesco_Momentum_Fuel.shtml

Just read the first link. It was a bit dissapointing to see the amount of detail they described in how they controlled and performed the test yet very little detail on the results other than a short paragraph. Also fairly contradictary too - on one hand stating Shell is the clear winner, then stating in the last paragraph there is very little difference and the supermarkets are amongst the best. Its almost as if the author got fed up of writing the article.

I will continue with my Vpower.

EDIT - looks like the printed version contains the detail :-)

Edited 17 January, 201313 yr by Booble

EDIT - looks like the printed version contains the detail :-)

Yup, I thought exactly as you did, to only then realise the little PDF thumbnails (of the actual article at the top) has all the detail.

Just read the first link. It was a bit dissapointing to see the amount of detail they described in how they controlled and performed the test yet very little detail on the results other than a short paragraph. Also fairly contradictary too - on one hand stating Shell is the clear winner, then stating in the last paragraph there is very little difference and the supermarkets are amongst the best. Its almost as if the author got fed up of writing the article.

I will continue with my Vpower.

EDIT - looks like the printed version contains the detail :-)

The second link I gave gives a truer view of the authors thoughts I believe

All good reading, all i can add it when I was committing 450 miles a week supermarket fuel gave me less to a tank than shell, with v-power almost covering the extra cost with extra miles i could do on the tank.

A guy I worked with had a ford galaxy with over 150k on the clock, hes the one that put me on the v-power. His turbo has sticky vane, he took it to an Independent garage that advised him to use try v-power. According to him when using v-power he had little problems with sticky vanes and limp mode, but if he did a couple tanks of supermarket stuff it would come back and go into limp mode much more easily.

Just heard on the news today Tesco fuel is in fact better for our cars as it contains more horses...............................groan

Just thought I'd add something to this. Normally fill up with boggo Shell fuel. Filled up with Asda stuff before xmas as I was on fumes and a day later the engine management light came on (cleared and didn't come back).

Today I filled up from nearly empty with V-Power and went for a drive. The difference now is quite staggering. Feels quicker and its definitely smoother to accelerate and when sat idling its quieter and smoother. Can't believe what a difference its made... V-Power all the way for me now.