Hi , after having a large CTR television for a while, we recently went HD, and have bought a Phillips 32" 1024dp tv (won a catagory on the gadget showm good reveiws on the net ect)

my problem is (apart from crap sound compaired to our old bush CRT!, we are ordering a speaker set too ) the picture (although very good quality on HD) has jerky movement to it, especially when alot of data is being processed, i.e on the aincient worlds program, where a big background of greece in HD would be panning around, its almost as if its trying to be played on a computer with a crap graphics card!!!!! now my 32" CRT never did this, i waited until the tech improved in ability before buying, hoping these sorts of problems would be eliminated.

I have looked through all the set up options to try and fix it, but to no avail.

Is this normal? is theer a fix? am I doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance.

Dave.

Can you remember that shops used to show slow moving hd pics from blueray players to show off their tv's?

You really need a tv with a higher than normal refresh rate to stop the problems you're getting or try it at 720p.

Has yours got the Digital Natural Motion option? That often doesn't work as well as it should for some resolutions.  

I keep thinking about upgrading from my 36" Toshiba crt, the problem is that lcd just isn't as good at showing motion as the old CRT's. I already have a sky HD box as my old one failed and I aquired it secondhand so keep thinking I need a new HD tv to do it justice, then go look at what is available and change my mind again.

I was looking in a panasonic shop yesterday, an LCD was over a plasma of the same size with a HD sports ice hockey match showing. The plasma was excellant at showing the movement without blur, but when the picture stabilised the detail was just not as good as the lcd. Conversley on the lcd as the camera panned everything blurred until it stopped again.

The problem is refresh rate, the plasma may have been at 600/second whilst the lcd was probably only 50/sec. Newer lcds are 100 or even 200/sec and are getting over this but still not perfect as the pixels take time to turn on and off and there is a limit to how fast this can be done.

This is the same problem aflicting 3d tv where the image tends to be affected by crosstalk on lcd but not on plasma. ie each pixel in the plasma is alternately showing the left and then the right eyes picture, and can change quickly enough to do this. On the lcd there is not always enough time to change the pixels, especially if it is dark for one eye and bright for the other. The latest 200hz sets are better but still not there.

CRT's were excellant at fast motion but never built to HD standards. I think it a real shame that they were never made with HD resolution as they would still be my choice.

Plasma are fast refreshing, show motion well but not as much detail as they are generally not full hd, pixels can give more colour range and be atruer image.

LCD are good for more static pictures and are fantastic for detail such as panoramas, close ups etc, as long as no fast movement. Colours are more limited than plasma and the effective contrast is less. I think they work partticularly well with computer gennerated images such as pixar films

LED are thinner and more expensive to buy, but have better contrast than lcd and cost less to run, but still have the blur issue.

OLED is coming, may be the way forward with more vivid colours and faster refresh rates, still £1800 for a 15" screen though, so some way to go.

I came to the conclusion that I would have to spend around £800 to get an almost acceptable picture quality at the moment with say a 6 series samsung on a 7 series sony.

The other issue is sound, my tv has built in surround sound with 4 satelitte speakers and a base built in. You don't get anything like this with a new tv as there is no space. So on top of the screen cost a cinema system is essential as well.

Edited 12 December, 201015 yr by kenfowler3966

I keep thinking about upgrading from my 36" Toshiba crt, the problem is that lcd just isn't as good at showing motion as the old CRT's. I already have a sky HD box as my old one failed and I aquired it secondhand so keep thinking I need a new HD tv to do it justice, then go look at what is available and change my mind again.

I was looking in a panasonic shop yesterday, an LCD was over a plasma of the same size with a HD sports ice hockey match showing. The plasma was excellant at showing the movement without blur, but when the picture stabilised the detail was just not as good as the lcd. Conversley on the lcd as the camera panned everything blurred until it stopped again.

The problem is refresh rate, the plasma may have been at 600/second whilst the lcd was probably only 50/sec. Newer lcds are 100 or even 200/sec and are getting over this but still not perfect as the pixels take time to turn on and off and there is a limit to how fast this can be done.

This is the same problem aflicting 3d tv where the image tends to be affected by crosstalk on lcd but not on plasma. ie each pixel in the plasma is alternately showing the left and then the right eyes picture, and can change quickly enough to do this. On the lcd there is not always enough time to change the pixels, especially if it is dark for one eye and bright for the other. The latest 200hz sets are better but still not there.

CRT's were excellant at fast motion but never built to HD standards. I think it a real shame that they were never made with HD resolution as they would still be my choice.

Plasma are fast refreshing, show motion well but not as much detail as they are generally not full hd, pixels can give more colour range and be atruer image.

LCD are good for more static pictures and are fantastic for detail such as panoramas, close ups etc, as long as no fast movement. Colours are more limited than plasma and the effective contrast is less. I think they work partticularly well with computer gennerated images such as pixar films

LED are thinner and more expensive to buy, but have better contrast than lcd and cost less to run, but still have the blur issue.

OLED is coming, may be the way forward with more vivid colours and faster refresh rates, still £1800 for a 15" screen though, so some way to go.

I came to the conclusion that I would have to spend around £800 to get an almost acceptable picture quality at the moment with say a 6 series samsung on a 7 series sony.

The other issue is sound, my tv has built in surround sound with 4 satelitte speakers and a base built in. You don't get anything like this with a new tv as there is no space. So on top of the screen cost a cinema system is essential as well.

thanks for that, this is exactly how I feel.... AND I nearly went for an LED TV, but they were just a little expensive for the size I wanted... I know an amplified 5 speaker sound system (on my Christmas list!) will cure my sound issues, but you are so right, the CRT was much better with fast moving pictures...

Maybe when the prices of LED TV's get a bit lower, and if I could get a decent price for the LCD we've just bought, i may have to bite the bullet and buy an LED, apparently thats the way forward....

CRT's were excellant at fast motion but never built to HD standards. I think it a real shame that they were never made with HD resolution as they would still be my choice.

They were for a very short while: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-WS32Z409TQX-Widescreen-Ready-Slimfit/dp/B000FMRXPI

To the OP - I have never rated Phillips equipment. Is there one in the shop you can compare it to to check that yours isn't faulty. Failing that can you not send/take it back under distance selling regs or similar then get a Toshiba or a Panasonic one

They were for a very short while: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-WS32Z409TQX-Widescreen-Ready-Slimfit/dp/B000FMRXPI

To the OP - I have never rated Phillips equipment. Is there one in the shop you can compare it to to check that yours isn't faulty. Failing that can you not send/take it back under distance selling regs or similar then get a Toshiba or a Panasonic one

there was a very similar spec toshiba model we were looking at, but it didn't have the ability to connect to the PC or play PC media from an integrated USB port.... it also didn't have as good reveiws as the phillips (we spent some time researching) ...

its just that when LCD first came out, and loads of people bought them I would watch things on them and think "hhhmmm jerky picture" but assumed the tech would improve... mine is no worse than any other I've seen, so I don't think its faulty, but its not as good as my old bush CRT :( we only upgraded because we upgraded the sky to HD....

and I've gone past the 14 days to send it back for a full refund ......

Thanks for the comments though... just thought maybe I was doing something wrong, or there was somethng I could do to improve it .....

It might be worth having a browse around Avforums and searching on your model number to see if anyone else has had your issues and whether they've found a solution.

A common form of stuttering when watching a movie is because of the pull-down rate. This is because some movies, such as some Bluray films, may be 24fps (frames per second) as the original movie might have been and your telly has a native 25fps. So what happens is, your telly takes a few frames of pictures and by mixing some of them up and repeating them whilst sort of combining a couple of them together, makes the picture look like it was shot at 25fps. This gets round the fact that old movies shot in 24fps were shown on telly at 25fps, so were in fact running slightly faster than the original movie was shot. It made the pitch of the sound track slightly higher too Very few people ever noticed though. So stuttering can often be seen when a camera pans and you can sort of see the effect of the pull-down. Perhaps this is what you are seeing, rather than an interlace or refresh problem.

To the OP - what source are the HD problems occuring from?

Have you played with any motion control or 24/25fps options on the set and source? Some people are really very sensitive to the 24fps stuttering if the set isnt fully 24fps compatible. Im not a fan of Phillips kit tbh but I know someone 'in the know' (AV is my line of work) so if you put the model details up I'll ask the question. Also, how are you connecting it? Via a HDMI lead I guess? If so, what length is it and have you tested it on other kit or know for sure that it is a good'un? Also, im guessing that if you dont have a speaker package or amp, its connected direct?

Edit - What Amanda says! Unfortunately, I was working in another window before finishing my reply here so took 10 mins to post!

Edited 12 December, 201015 yr by FocusZtec

To the OP - what source are the HD problems occuring from?

Have you played with any motion control or 24/25fps options on the set and source? Some people are really very sensitive to the 24fps stuttering if the set isnt fully 24fps compatible. Im not a fan of Phillips kit tbh but I know someone 'in the know' (AV is my line of work) so if you put the model details up I'll ask the question. Also, how are you connecting it? Via a HDMI lead I guess? If so, what length is it and have you tested it on other kit or know for sure that it is a good'un? Also, im guessing that if you dont have a speaker package or amp, its connected direct?

Edit - What Amanda says! Unfortunately, I was working in another window before finishing my reply here so took 10 mins to post!

I often find I miss my 'reply slot' because I am doing something else

I sometimes feel I am a 24fps person living in a 25fps world :(

A lot of HD material, particularly bluray disks are recorded at 24P. Not all HD TV's can handle this properly, the result is a jerky picture. If you are getting this on normal TV, eg. Sky HD then the issue could be internal picture processing inside the TV, the solution to this is to go into the TV setup menu and disable things like "Digital Natural Motion" as this for example attempts to interpolate frames into the moving image which can result in unexpected results.

Actually, having read your first post, I wonder if your resolution isn’t helping either? I still stand by what I said earlier about what is know the ‘pull-down’ rate (Google and Wiki can show you some nice graphics that explain it all much more clearly than can), but wonder if things aren’t being helped by your slightly less than 1080 resolution screen. Perhaps you are upscaling/upconverting to 1080 from one source (1080p can be tricky at the best of times) and your telly is trying to convert it to 1024 (rather than throw away a few line) and all this processing, coupled with high refresh rates and pull-down is giving your telly’s processor a bit of a headache?

To the OP - what source are the HD problems occuring from?

Have you played with any motion control or 24/25fps options on the set and source? Some people are really very sensitive to the 24fps stuttering if the set isnt fully 24fps compatible. Im not a fan of Phillips kit tbh but I know someone 'in the know' (AV is my line of work) so if you put the model details up I'll ask the question. Also, how are you connecting it? Via a HDMI lead I guess? If so, what length is it and have you tested it on other kit or know for sure that it is a good'un? Also, im guessing that if you dont have a speaker package or amp, its connected direct?

Edit - What Amanda says! Unfortunately, I was working in another window before finishing my reply here so took 10 mins to post!

its a phillips 32PFL3605H/12 the HD source is sky HD+ box via HDMI lead supplied by sky (although we do have another lead, and I was going to try changing them)

appriciate you following this up!

amanda: sorry it is 1080, my mistake in the OP...

Edited 14 December, 201015 yr by sharkrider

A lot of HD material, particularly bluray disks are recorded at 24P. Not all HD TV's can handle this properly, the result is a jerky picture. If you are getting this on normal TV, eg. Sky HD then the issue could be internal picture processing inside the TV, the solution to this is to go into the TV setup menu and disable things like "Digital Natural Motion" as this for example attempts to interpolate frames into the moving image which can result in unexpected results.

I will try this......... and have another mess with the settings.

it has something called "digital crystal clear" and in that menu i activated something called "mpeg artifact reduction" which apparently smooths image transition (can't remember exactly how the tv put it!) and this seems to have helped a bit...gonna change the HDMI lead next....

edit: lead makes no difference..... will try search with the model number...

Edited 14 December, 201015 yr by sharkrider

This pull-down problem can be seen on almost all modern tellys. TV companies like to roll the credits to a programme horizontally on a lot of their shows. But just take a look in Currys when this happens. you will see most of their telly's have a stuttering effect to the credits. Not having seen the severity of your problem I can't be sure, but it might be as suggested earlier, that you are very sensitive to this form of juddering and your telly will always exibit a small amount of this problem (as most tellys do) :(