60K Cambelt myth?

[phantomlurker]

Mazda have

The MX5 has had a non-interference engine since 1989 cambelt snaps and there is no damage engine just stops, don't ask me how I know........

One of my colleagues is always boasting about this! It's a puzzler - I can only think it's in order to keep servicing and further sales going. (Edit - I meant in cars with a normal belt!)

He is a bit of a petrol-head, and although initially was a little skeptical about the Furby (comments about Perkins Diesel and tractors!) he has now fully come round to it - especially when I mention the mpg. It's gone from "I'm not sure about them" to "so when are you going to flog me your car cheap?"

PL

Edited 15 December, 2010 by phantomlurker

[phantomlurker]

Right-ho, just did of bit of research on me own, heres the results: more confusion!

Local Stealer - 80,000 KM which they said is 60,000 miles. Google disagrees, and says 80000km=49709.695. Quoted a price just north of £400 belt, pump, labour VAT

Local Indy - 75,000 miles, no time indicator(!) Didn't ask for price.

Hmm,

[Wardy]

Pretty sure there was a technical notice on this, think I may have seen a post by Ross discussing it some years ago?

Impressive this is still being discussed in 2010 really, and that confusion and varying information still exists from dealers of the VAG empire

60k or 4yrs, which ever comes first. This should apply to all PD130 units, across the Group.

Steve

[idleness]

One of my colleagues is always boasting about this! It's a puzzler - I can only think it's in order to keep servicing and further sales going. (Edit - I meant in cars with a normal belt!)

He is a bit of a petrol-head, and although initially was a little skeptical about the Furby (comments about Perkins Diesel and tractors!) he has now fully come round to it - especially when I mention the mpg. It's gone from "I'm not sure about them" to "so when are you going to flog me your car cheap?"

We still run the MX5, its a 1991 BBR turbo, 20 years old in January

[phantomlurker]

60k or 4yrs, which ever comes first. This should apply to all PD130 units, across the Group.

This is the problem. Blokey at Skodawhen I rang half-hour ago said:

60,000miles, well the book says 80,000km but thats roughly 60,000 miles.

The problem being, it is actually 50000 miles. So this is a skoda service staff, quoting a skoda figure, then ballsing up the conversion rate. What would the knock-on effect be for the customer? How many other people have been told this incorrect figure? How many other customers are blindly carrying on a potential extra 10000 miles?

As you say, not a good thing that there still is confusion on the issue.

PL

[rwbaldwin]

Non-interference engine. Genius, never knew they existed, now I want one and to have my cambelt go just for the sake of it.

Until recently, a lot US manufactured engines were OHV (pushrod) and had no chain or belt.

[Wardy]

That isn't correct. I wish I could find some relevant info to back it up, as I'm sure it exists somewhere on this forum. The revised figure was issued in miles, as it was applicable to the UK market.

And it isn't 50k.

Steve

[vrs180]

Robinsons Skoda in Norwich are CATEGORICALLY saying that all Fabia vRS turbo diesels have a cambelt change at 120,000km (74,520 miles). Now I, and I think everyone else on here KNOWS it's 60,000 miles. But I have to say I can't find any evidence for 60,000 miles on a diesel. Petrols, yes, but not diesels. It appears to be an internet myth.

Anyone know any better? It could well save a few high milers some money for another few months.

The Haynes manual states that the timing belt on diesle engines should be changed every 60K.

As an experienced HGV fitter I've seen many cam belt failures over many years and based on that, I'd always recommend people follow recommended service schedules.

There are some things that we as owners can do to try and prevent cam belt failures.....for example do not bump start an engine that has belt driven camshafts.

The shock loading on the cam belt during bump starting can be many times greater than that when the engine is being cranked by the starter motor.

HTH

Bill.

[Tech1e]

Right I tell you guys what, someone PM me a chassis number of a vRS (a couple would be a good comparrison and ill bang them into ElsaPro and tell you when your cambelt is due. Elsa Pro is the Skoda bible, its updated frequently if not daily and is what we get our service sheets from. When you enter in the car data it builds a service sheet for you and everything is in miles not KM. Tells you when the brake fluid is due, timing belts the lot.

However this will be a good test short term only, should they decide to change anything the info will be out of date, so if your bumping this thread in 2015 it may be wrong!..lol

[nath17t]

i work as a tech in a skoda dealer and its 120000 km = 75000 miles or 4 years skoda do not say anything about time interval dut dealers put the 4 year interval there so it comes inline with the 4th year service if you look in the front of your service book it tells you 120000 km iv seen belts go for 140000 miles without any ploblem the belts are very good and not seen one snap in 8 years of the brand

[Big Mikey]

60k or 4 years. Expensive to replace, but even more expensive for a new engine.

[ste372]

simple way to put it is would you rather shell out for timing belt replacement at a safe 60k or 4 yrs or pay 1000's when your belt gives up and smashs your engine to bits i know which one id rather choose.

and that is a good point with the belts not snapping. ive noticed at work it doesnt tend to be the belts giving up but the tensioner collapses therefore causing belt to go slack and valves start dancing on pistons etc.

the only belt i have seen snap is on a golf pd130 which had the wrong oil in it at some point lifters had jammed open which in turn smashed an injector to bits, snapped the cam and then seized the engine solid which snapped the belt. wasnt a pretty sight lol

not really any help just my 2p worth

ste

[Paul Bennett]

hmmm,

I'm aware my '06 40k ish miles new addition hasn't had this done. I guess it's getting pretty close to needing it on either rule (4 years / whatever mileage), are the prices really as high as people have quoted? That seems a lot compared with my 2.5 Tdi Transporter and my Fiat HGT JTD?

[wja96]

60k or 4 years..

Yes, but where did you get that information from? That was also my belief, but apparently it's wrong. It's 75,000 miles or 4 years.

[wja96]

Pretty sure there was a technical notice on this, think I may have seen a post by Ross discussing it some years ago?

Yes, I'm sure there was a sticky somewhere, but the only one I canm find now is about petrol engines.

Impressive this is still being discussed in 2010 really, and that confusion and varying information still exists from dealers of the VAG empire [/Quote]

I think they've changed it.

60k or 4yrs, which ever comes first. This should apply to all PD130 units, across the Group.

Again, that was 100% my belief, but apparently no longer the case. It's now 74,520 miles, so for safety every 70K miles.

[Browny_37]

Its now 60K and use to be 80K, my first belt was done at 92K before i even got the car.

Just had mine done after 60k with a pump rollers belt and tensioner for £240.

Edited 16 December, 2010 by Browny_37

[rwbaldwin]

i work as a tech in a skoda dealer and its 120000 km = 75000 miles or 4 years skoda do not say anything about time interval dut dealers put the 4 year interval there so it comes inline with the 4th year service if you look in the front of your service book it tells you 120000 km iv seen belts go for 140000 miles without any ploblem the belts are very good and not seen one snap in 8 years of the brand

SUK advised the 4 year period following a bulletin from Seat in Martorell. The advice to change every 4 years was only ever issued in the UK and a few other minor markets.

[ap0gee1978]

Just been to look at my service booklet (RTFM, after all!) and it says inspect at 60k miles, then every 20k, and replace at 100k if not before. It's my understanding that this was reduced to a simple replacement at 60k due to too many failing between 60k and 80k. FWIW, the four-year thing seems to have been consistent from the start.

It's been bothering me, because my current miles mean I will either change after 3.5 years and 54k at oil-change time, or 4 years and 62k at inspection-service time. Generally I get the oil changed at the place down the road, but I'm not so sure about getting them to do the cambelt (want gearbox oil done too) so have been weighing up the risk of waiting the 'extra' 2k until the car goes in for the big service at a place I'm more comfortable with, but are more expensive. Obviously, it's got to be done sooner or later, but using the place down the road doesn't need as much arrangement in terms of time off work, courtesy cars etc. so I try to limit going elsewhere to once a year. Also, waiting for the later service means it'll be done after both our cars are paid off so money will be much less tight.

Having dabbled in RAM myself, I'm aware that 60k is not some immediate self-destruct switch, so just as I left the waterpump until this upcoming cambelt change (i.e. didn't bother last time it was done) I suspect I'll take my chances on the 3.33% extension on the cambelt's service life. Call me reckless, but after getting a good few months out of the Radweld fix on SWMBO's radiator, I'm feeling lucky

[DRJ]

http://www.fabia-vrs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/fabia_octavia_service_guide.xls - not sure the original source of this - states:

Every 60,000 miles:

Toothed belt for camshaft drive: change (diesel engine TDI and SDI from chassis number Y2311526 - Octavia, 1.9 ltr TDI & SDI Fabia), do not replace tensioning pulley

http://www.fabia-vrs.com/downloads/files/fabiasmr.xls - which I originally downloaded from Skoda's website I think (on 16/5/05?) - says:

Cam Belt - 60 K Miles

So interestingly neither mentions the 4 year limit.

Thus it certainly used to be 60,000 miles - interesting if it's now really gone up to 75,000 miles as is being suggested.

To throw more confusion into the pot http://www.cambeltcover.co.uk/cambelt-change.php?selected_manu=Skoda#database suggests this (which I realise probably won't format here):

Year Make Model Engine Mileage Interval Time Interval Notes

2005 Skoda Fabia 1.4 Petrol 60,000 Mile (Change) 4 years N/A

2003 Skoda Fabia 1.9 Diesel 60,000 Mile (Change) Not Specified Cambelt interval applies up to 08/2003 models.

2000 Skoda Fabia 1.4 Petrol 60,000 Mile (Check) 4 years N/A

2004 Skoda Fabia 1.9 Diesel 75,000 Mile (Change) 4 years N/A

2001 Skoda Fabia 1.4 Petrol 60,000 Mile (Check) 4 years No change interval specified. Check only.

Edited 16 December, 2010 by DRJ

[rwbaldwin]

Here is the current service table

Notes:

VAG consider a cambelt change to be a repair item - not a service item.

Get the dealer to do a VIN search to determine the date range that applies to your car. The date is NOT the date of purchase/registration!

If you replace all the cambelt kit items with the latest parts, you can move to the updated service interval.

You can see from the table that in some cases the tensioner needs to be replaced after every other cambelt. My advice is to replace it with every cambelt.

[KenONeill]

Until recently, a lot US manufactured engines were OHV (pushrod) and had no chain or belt.

Are you actually saying that the camshaft was normally gear-driven? The only US designed engines I've ever worked on were the Ford "Pinto" unit (belt) and Buick 200CI V8 (chain).

[rwbaldwin]

Are you actually saying that the camshaft was normally gear-driven? The only US designed engines I've ever worked on were the Ford "Pinto" unit (belt) and Buick 200CI V8 (chain).

No, the valvegear is driven by pushrods driven by cams in the lower engine. This means there was no camshaft in the head and therefore the height of the engine is reduced.

Edited 16 December, 2010 by rwbaldwin

[DEAN0]

No, the valvegear is driven by pushrods driven by cams in the lower engine. This means there was no camshaft in the head and therefore the height of the engine is reduced.

But the cam is still driven by a short chain - very much like the A series mini engine or the ford x-flow engine

There needs to be some way to halve the speed of the camshaft in relation to the crankshaft.

Edited 16 December, 2010 by DEAN0

[rwbaldwin]

But the cam is still driven by a short chain - very much like the A series mini engine or the ford x-flow engine

There needs to be some way to halve the speed of the camshaft in relation to the crankshaft.

Yes. but most pushrod engines are non interference which means that the engine doesn't lunch itself when the chain goes. If you so wish, you can drive until a problem arises.

[steve-yfzracer]

If they say change at 60k, im sure itl be fine until 70k, at the end of the day 60k is being precautionary.