Hi everyone just a question. I've put a deposit down on a lovely Skoda Octavia Vrs but one thing still bothers me. When it snows I get a lot of it where I live making it impossible to get out of my drive. This isa problem that happens every year and I end up taking time off work because of it. I don't know what the Vrs is like driving in the snow and i've heard of snow socks but are they any good? I've seen a Subaru Impreza 2.0R for sale which is a non turbo 4 wheel drive saloon which has 26k miles on clock and a 07 reg for £7.5 which is £1k less than for the Vrs with 40k miles on clock! The question is, is it worth buying a 4x4 saloon for the sake of snow or am I being paranoid about it?! I realy have my heart set on that Skoda but I can't help but think is it going to be as useful for me as a 4x4 saloon in snow or ice? Can anyone please give me any ideas. Thanks

My understanding is that 4 wheel drive gives you better traction in snow - it does not necessarily enable you to come to a stop quicker (which is I guess the most dangerous aspect of driving on ice/snow). Don't also forget that you'll mostly drive the car in normal conditions, so choose a car that you're happy to drive for the rest of the year, when there is no snow!

Snow socks are a reasonably good solution but I personally did not consider them, as they can be fiddly to fit and you also need to find a safe place to stop and remove them as they cannot be used on tarmac.

Whichever car you end of choosing, I'd recommend investing in some winter tyres (or if the budget wont allow, then at least all season tyres which can obviously be used throughout the year).

HTH

Lots of people I speak to in the pub and frieds etc are telling me they're going to buy a 4wd car. Why? Because their recent memory is occupied by recalls of snow that affected the country for a few days of the year. Granted, if this develops into a reliable trend, it makes sense to go 4wd but I don't think there's enough evidence yet.

I don't have snow socks, but by most accounts they are very good, I think one guy on this site used his snow sock equipped motor to drag out a 4wd that was stuck in the snow.

If I was worried about mobility in a snow bound area, it would be snow socks for me. Fortunately I work from home, so when the weather is bad I just leave the car on the drive, but know that not everyone has that luxury.

If you are that concerned, look up the countless Winter tyre threads. You will see they are perfect for you. Having owned a Scooby or two, I think I can safely say that without winter tyres on it, a Scooby would be inferior to an Octy with winter tyres fitted. hth

Buy the Skoda and invest in snow tyres on smaller wheels or snow socks for the snowy periods. The overall running costs of the Subaru will be massive compared with the Skoda - tax, fuel, servicing etc - all very expensive with Subaru.

Lots of people I speak to in the pub and frieds etc are telling me they're going to buy a 4wd car. Why? Because their recent memory is occupied by recalls of snow that affected the country for a few days of the year. Granted, if this develops into a reliable trend, it makes sense to go 4wd but I don't think there's enough evidence yet.

I don't have snow socks, but by most accounts they are very good, I think one guy on this site used his snow sock equipped motor to drag out a 4wd that was stuck in the snow.

If I was worried about mobility in a snow bound area, it would be snow socks for me. Fortunately I work from home, so when the weather is bad I just leave the car on the drive, but know that not everyone has that luxury.

Lucky you! lol I wish I worked from home! Unfortunately I don't and my job is 15 miles away, so driving in snow or ice is a real hazard for me. Last January it took me over 6 hours to drive a journey that should have taken me 30 mins!!! I also live up a very steep hill which is only open when it snows for 4x4 cars! My manager moans at me if I can't go too work if i'm snowed in which I find very unfair. The Subaru does look very nice but i'm a little worried about running cost despite it been a non turbo. I don't think the Subaru will be anywhere near as much fun to drive when there is no snow though.

personally I would recommend that you stick with the same size wheels. My reasoning is that as we don't live in a country where we will be snow bound for the 3 to 4 months you will use winter tyres, you will want you car to behave as normally as possible for the 90% of the time when you drive on dry or damp roads. The slight advantage that narrower tyres etc give you in really bad snowy conditions, I think is outweighed by the the advantage of good rubber to road contact the rest (ie most of) of the time.

Buy the Skoda and invest in snow tyres on smaller wheels or snow socks for the snowy periods. The overall running costs of the Subaru will be massive compared with the Skoda - tax, fuel, servicing etc - all very expensive with Subaru.

I thought so too. I've heard lots of stories of very big bills from servicing them some of them been over £1k!!!! Just out of interest how much do Skoda charge for the service shedules for a Vrs?

I've owned 2 Imprezas from new and currently have a vRS. The AWD drive system on the scooby is very good and traction may be marginally better than the vRS in snow. The problem is the very wide tyres on both vehicles. Both easy to get stuck. Snow socks work well ...1 set for the vRS 2 sets for the WRX. My money would be on the vRS as it is far more practical and a pair of socks for winter should see you out pacing the scoobie in the snow. A car with 4WD on ice slides sideways just as easily as one with 2WD. What we all really want is a 4WD vRS

I have also have a 4x4 Jeep which is great in the snow.

However, getting to work is still a nightmare as everyone else gets stuck in your way!

Sounds like your boss is totally unreasonable get the Vrs and a then a new employer.

I've owned 2 Imprezas from new and currently have a vRS. The AWD drive system on the scooby is very good and traction may be marginally better than the vRS in snow. The problem is the very wide tyres on both vehicles. Both easy to get stuck. Snow socks work well ...1 set for the vRS 2 sets for the WRX. My money would be on the vRS as it is far more practical and a pair of socks for winter should see you out pacing the scoobie in the snow. A car with 4WD on ice slides sideways just as easily as one with 2WD. What we all really want is a 4WD vRS

Thanks for that info mate As for a 4WD VRS! Maybe someone should mention that idea too Skoda! Personally I'd like the idea of a Mk4 Skoda Octavia VRS 4WD with 200bhp! That would go like something brown & sticky on a blanket! Doesn't VRS stand for Victory Rally Sport? in which case if it does, the more reason for Skoda to make the next VRS a 4WD!

My opinion - VRS all the way & a set of winter tyres - I've gone that route this year & wish I'd done it three years ago. Bought 'socks' for the Mrs for her Mazda 5 !

We had a Scooby Sportwagon before the Mazda & it's different to drive, but not a patch on the Skoda for build etc...also dear to run.

I have driven Subarus extensively over a good many years and done most service and repair jobs on them.

The 2.0R you talk about is really a rather different car to the vRS. For a start its considerably less roomy (more Fabia-sized inside). It will also have the 160bhp EJ205 non-turbo engine, which is not a bad little unit, but really needs to be revved a lot to get anything out of it. The vRS will be vastly more torquey and relaxing to drive - not to mention the benefit of a 6-speed gearbox. Fuel economy will be marginally better on the vRS. The Subaru is a bit under-braked.

The Subaru will probably be more reliable than the vRS. The non-turbo engines and gearboxes are just about bomb-proof. The stories of big servicing bills on Subarus relate mainly to hard-driven turbo-models where major engine blow-ups cost a fortune. They can also get through clutches. The 2.0R should cost you no more than the vRS to maintain. They are quite a popular car in Austria and Switzerland - fitted with winter tyres.

My suggestion would be to go for the vRS if you want a roomy family car. BUT you need to buy winter tyres whichever car you choose. The difference is night and day over summer tyres. A vRS on winter tyres will easily outperform a Subaru on summer tyres on an icy/snowy road. Get the vRS and allow for a set of used wheels and winter tyres.

My opinion - VRS all the way & a set of winter tyres - I've gone that route this year & wish I'd done it three years ago. Bought 'socks' for the Mrs for her Mazda 5 !

We had a Scooby Sportwagon before the Mazda & it's different to drive, but not a patch on the Skoda for build etc...also dear to run.

Thanks, I did think that the Subaru would be a lot more expensive. I phoned a Subaru dealer and they quoted me £750 for the 60k miles service!!! That was enough for me to say no to Subaru. Skoda VRS all the way for me too I think Still, I read that the turbo replacement for the VRS cost about £1200!!!! not exactly cheap is it!

Thanks, I did think that the Subaru would be a lot more expensive. I phoned a Subaru dealer and they quoted me £750 for the 60k miles service!!! That was enough for me to say no to Subaru. Skoda VRS all the way for me too I think Still, I read that the turbo replacement for the VRS cost about £1200!!!! not exactly cheap is it!

I think that price probably includes a cambelt change.

With most cars nowadays the standard service charges are quite similar because most services are down to fluid and filter changes, plus some inspections and spark-plugs every few years. The costs hit you when you need a clutch, cambelt or some other non-routine item. A non-turbo Subaru can be serviced by any independent garage - they are actually less complex than a vRS and do not require any special tools. Things like clutch parts, pads and discs etc on the non-turbo's can be bought from factors at very reasonable prices.

Repairs on a vRS can be very expensive (turbo, direct injection system, flaky ESP/ABS modules etc., air-con), but they are reasonably reliable (with the exception of ESP/ABS and air-con on older cars). I'm certainly happy with my 2008 model.

Well im now on my 4th Octavia company car and i love them.

I had 3 TDis and now I have a 1.8Tsi i never had a problem with the TDis in the snow but last year i had a BMW which was awful in the snow.

2 weeks ago i had winter tyres fitted and i would recommend them to anyone.

They are the same size as the normal tyres as the TSi runs 16 inch wheels. the car is facory fitted with Continentals which I found noisy and average.

The Vredstien winter tyres are unbelivable. And skoda recommend fitting winter tyres in temperatures below 7 degrees.

I have found the winter tyres have superb grip and really do improve braking in these cold and wet conditions and the grip well in the snow.

They give real confidence on all roads. I cant recommend them enough.

I dont drive slow and i do a lot of miles around 1000 a week.

Why dont you buy a quad bike for the winter? Road legal ones can be had for £400 - £600...That'll make the drive to work abit more interesting in the snow ...

I had a scoob sti before i came to the octy,one thing i do miss a little is taking the scoob out and having a play in the snow was great..But i wouldn't buy a scoob just because we maybe will have a bit of snow during winter,stick with the vrs and as been said get a set of winter tyres,oh and a scoob will still slide on ice btw ...I know what you saying about a vrs being 4wd,but still it's the councils/highways etc not being able to cope with keeping the roads clear that is causing the problem,and people passing driving tests that can really still just about drive in good conditions..

I've friends who's had Subarus in teh snow, Impreza and Legacies. They were carp in the snow. They've still got fat low profile tyres that slide just as well as a fwd.

A Scoob on snow tyres will be better than an Octy because they'll all grip and drive.

The other thing with subaru's is the mpg and tax. Fuel consumption is pretty awful, makes the vRS look like a blueline polo. A lot of them are in the £400 tax bracket too.

If you're worried invest in a set of steel wheel and winter tyres or even just a set of snow socks.

Lots of people are panicking right now and throwing away good cars for top price 4x4s. It's a sellers market for them now.

Next summer buy an old smelly Justy 4x4 for the winter.

Lots of people are panicking right now and throwing away good cars for top price 4x4s. It's a sellers market for them now.

The LR Dealerships won't be complaining, but it's absolutlely bonkers! (It was only 2 years ago you couldn't give SUVs away thanks to rising fuel prices - prices that are now even higher today!!)

A set of winter tyres on a second set of dealer price new Alloys to match your existing is probably as expensive a way of going about it as possible, and will still be cheaper than your cost to change (unless downgrading - but why would you do that?), this is before you take into acccount your increased year round fuel consumption, running costs, etc. After which, unless you buy winters for it, you still won't stop or corner any better than the next man.......

Admittedly the Scout on Winters is an absolute joy of unexciting driving in these conditions, but I'm driving a lot less (if at all) on the 4wd system than I did last year on summers when going up steep inclines.

Last year for a bit of fun - purposefully ham-fisted prod of the accelerator - front wheel spin followed by little rear end "kick" as power shifts to the back and for a split second you have a RWD bias car before the computers sort out where powers going.

This year - no spin at the front (so no 4wd) and smooth acceleration that you can only dream of on summer tyres.

If 4wd was the answer everyone in Scandanavia would have one, they don't - they use winter tyres, surely that tells us something about this never ending tyre debate/the UK obsession that rather than £400 quid on tyres and wheels, chopping in their existing and spending £1,000s to get a brand new FL2 is the answer for 3 days of snow a year?

If you live somewhere were it is on average well above 7deg C through the winter months, get socks for emergency situations and enjoy your current car for the other 360+ days of the year where it does everything you want from a car (that's why you bought it, right?)

Niall

If you live somewhere were it is on average well above 7deg C through the winter months, get socks for emergency situations

According to the BBC website, the maximum average temperature in London during December, January and February is 7C or cooler. There probably aren't many parts of the UK that are warmer than London during the winter ...

Edited 17 December, 201015 yr by AnotherGareth

personally I would recommend that you stick with the same size wheels. My reasoning is that as we don't live in a country where we will be snow bound for the 3 to 4 months you will use winter tyres, you will want you car to behave as normally as possible for the 90% of the time when you drive on dry or damp roads. The slight advantage that narrower tyres etc give you in really bad snowy conditions, I think is outweighed by the the advantage of good rubber to road contact the rest (ie most of) of the time.

I'm convinced most newer cars are over-tyred. Perhaps if you can't feel the difference then keeping to the standard size makes sense for winter tyres, but otherwise I'd recommend using a smaller wheel and a narrower tread while keeping the overall diameter the same.

One of the bizarre things these days are how some oem alloys are so heavy. By going down a size, from 205/55R16 on alloys to 195/65R15 on narrower steel wheels I found the overall weight was reduced. The car felt more nimble too, which is just what you (ought to) want if you enjoy driving.

my mate is currently or should I say about to sell his Ford C-Max and get a 4x4 mostly due to the latest weather. He is scared that he might get stuck in the snow (we both live near Heathrow so not much chance of that!).

Look at it this way I got a DSG because 90% of my driving is either in traffic or motorway, in traffic I'm fed up of changing gear and on the motorway you vary rarely have to. The small amount of time that I would be able to enjoy the manual box is not worth it.

Apply the same logic to the 4x4 factor, how often do you really need 4wd? Is it worth the extra running costs/higher tax?

I like 4x4's, would like to have one but I could not justify the running costs for one. Get some winter wheels and even maybe have a look for some advance driving skills.

Of course another option is to buy an old series 2 landrover that is tax exempt and insure it on a classic policy, but good luck trying to stop it without a letter granting permission from the queen!

4x4 have more TRACTION in snow because each tyre is taking approximately half the tractional load that a 2WD tyre would take. Hence you have roughly double the tractive force before slip sets in. However this applies to tractive force only. All cars have four-wheel braking and so braking is not improved on a 4x4, nor is lateral grip.

Having driven 4x4 (for work purposes) on ice and snow I personally don't like the high centre of gravity and often rather 'detached' feeling from the road.

In my experiences big 4x4 are only really better on deep snow, where the much greater ground clearance is a real bonus.

On shallow snow and ice I found a lightweight front-wheel drive hatchback on winter tyres to be easiest to

drive...

I would say Subaru. Costs no more to service. Similar cost at 4 year Vrs service. Cambelt 450 to 500, brake fluid 40, and either 2nd variable or 4th annual service circa 200 to 270. On same tyres the Subaru would be better. If you can afford a turbo wrx even better. Always regretted selling our turbo and thats 9 years ago. The Vrs is good but i would not buy another. We plan to keep it a long time not because its great but to save wasting money on depreciation. Its an okay car with okay economy. We cannot get consistently good economy. 18 wheels and tyres are too big imho wish i had found one with 17" now. Everyone has an opinion on this forum there will be some bias :-).