2wd on slippery

[wamp]

Hello all.

Recieved my estate yesterday.

Not gonna write up a full review about how much I love the ride, as there are tons of those out there allready.

What I will do, however, is comment on the handling.

I live in Norway, and the weather here is.. well.. snowy and icy to say the least. - So I was a bit nervous going from my previous 4x4 car, to now a 2wd with 'only antispin'

Reason why I ordered without 4x4, was simply that I could't afford in addition to all the other stuff I ordered with the car (why have 4x4 when you rather can have the car park for you, riiiight? uhm.. anyway..

with antispin engaged

well first off, it's hard to even make the car slip; as the antspin does an excelent job rerouting power between the weels and cutting accelleration; before you even notice that it's slippery.

Because of the rerouting of power, however, it sometimes feels as if the car drags to one of the sides, which feels... unusual... - I still THINK it is my job as a human to predict and control the handling, but when I get to react, the antispin has allready done its job.

not sure I'm ever gonna completely trust my electronic wingman, but it is a nice "helping hand in time of the needy" (read that line without making it sound perverted, please ;-))

without antispin engaged

If you have a huge parkinglot somewhere, DO play with the car. You'll learn alot, aaaand it is extremely fun :-D

Just ignore the warning beeps when the car -really- goes for a spin.

Seriously Skoda? if my car is sliding like there's no tomorrow and I'm about to crash, then the last thing I need is a warning-sound to notify me that "hey.. in case you didn't know, the car is out of control"

anyways.. tremendious fun

some people call it the cargo-ship due to it's size; I think that is also a perfect description on how the car handles out there.

As a cargo ship needs decades to perform a turn, so does the superb feel like when it slips. heavy and sloooooow. You have all the time in the world to contra-steer and get the car 'back on track', and when you DO contra steer, the car picks up smoothly, like nothing ever happened.

On the road, the car feels as solid and heavy as a locomotive that seems impossible to "get off track" without really wanting to..

But also, like a locomotive, IF it detours, it doesn't abruptly stop; so be aware. 1,5tonns of moving metal is not a toy! (or so my wife says )

oh.. and lastly to y'all waiting for a car with panorama roof? IT IS SO WORTH THE WAIT!!

Edited 24 December, 2010 by wamp

[Justin Case]

Congrats!!! And thank you for a nice write up... What winter tires did you get?

Edited 24 December, 2010 by Justin Case

[wamp]

ContiVikingContact 5 16" :-)

Edited 24 December, 2010 by wamp

[Zilwer]

Got the 4x4 myself and its as you say about the fwd, its a freaking locomotive on snow and ice!

I went for Nokian Hakkapelitta 7 16". What widht did you go for? 205 or 195?

[RS3100]

I found last week in -10C in the snow, front wheel drive version of the superb Combi was no problem in the snow. The car has only slid twice unintentionally in the bad weather we have had in the UK. The first was because a fan stopped acorss a junction which meant I lost all momentum getting up the hill, about a 40 degree incline, but backing up a car length or two I had the momentum again and the car only slid as I went round the corner on full lock trying to avoid the va. I usually take a wider line on slippery snow so the diffs work more evenly. The second was going down a steeper hill folling a 4 x 4 Landcruiser which was slipping in the snow, so wasn't too surprised that my car slipped and for the one and only time flashed up the ESP.

Stopping distance for any car in the snow and ice is about ten times greater than normal if in a straight line, but I have found that where I have had to avoid idiots driving too fast for the conditions, the car does stop as good as any car I have had if you sling it side ways with a quick tweak of the handbrake The sudden change of the wheels going in a direction they didn't intend just carves up the snow.

Only do this if you know what you are doing, I do this regularly when rallying (not the Superb, a bit big ) using the old Scandinaviab flick.

Handbrake also good for getting car round extra tight corners but not recomended to do infront of the local law enforcers

Can't think of a better toy than 1.5 tonns of moving metal on snow and ice, I'd be out in the Capri if the panels for a 37 year old car weren't so damn rare

[stevehg]

The first was because a fan stopped acorss a junction which meant I lost all momentum getting up the hill, about a 40 degree incline

are we supposed to know who you are?? ;)

[RS3100]

Have a look at the video all about the Ford Capri by Duke Video or old isues of Practical Classics and Classic Ford where my RS has been featured on many occasions

[Sprightlybob]

I but I have found that where I have had to avoid idiots driving too fast for the conditions,

Seem that you might fit into the generic description of an "idiot" if you rely on the handbrake when cornering in adverse conditions ON PUBLIC ROADS!!

Edited 24 December, 2010 by Sprightlybob

[Doc Watchtower]

Seem that you might fit into the generic description of an "idiot" if you rely on the handbrake when cornering in adverse conditions ON PUBLIC ROADS!!

Been there, done that, on a quiet B road on a sunday morning at 08:00 Am, In Scandinavia they even teach you this when attending drivingschools

But maybe the fact that there is little snow down under has affected your opinion?

[RS3100]

Seem that you might fit into the generic description of an "idiot" if you rely on the handbrake when cornering in adverse conditions ON PUBLIC ROADS!!

Faced with the choice of being hit by a car head on or trying to get out the way what would you do?

Me, I would do my best and get out the way so if this makes me an idiot for trying to avoid an accident through others inability to drive according to the conditions then an IDIOT I AM AND PROUD!

Never said I rely on the handbrake, what I rely on is good driving skills and driving according to the conditions. The Institute of Advanced Motorists seem to think I am a good driver as I have past the test twice, I did the test again just to see if any bad habits had crept in from the first time I passed and none had so this IDIOT must be doing something right :p

For anyone wanting to learn how to drive a car in adverse conditions, the IAM run some very good courses on skid pans to learn various avoidance techneques.

As for infront of the police, yes in a private car park behind barriers prior to competing, what annoyed the police was that they had seen me drive the car to the event as I used to drive the rally car to events, commpete and drive home again, they just wanted to make sure what happend in competition stayed in competition.

[Superbjoser]

...

oh.. and lastly to y'all waiting for a car with panorama roof? IT IS SO WORTH THE WAIT!!

When I talked to my dealer today about an annoying PLONG! every time I'll start up or shut down the engine (seems to be related to the phone connection) he told me a a somewhat scary story. When they had their demo-car out in the cold weather (around -20 degrees C) and took it in to the garage for some maintenance work the pana-roof cracked and crashed all together with in minutes. And a spare roof will take some three to four months to get there. The car is now completely useless until spare-roof arrives. This will be a expensive thing for VAG-group if it proved to be a design fault. And no, I didn't go for the pana-roof...

Oh, and regarding to the topic of this thread: It handles perfectly with non studded winter tires (Goodyear UltraGrip ICE+ 205/55/16). Keep a healthy distance to the vehicle in front of you, especially snowmobiles/bandwagons, the do have a tremendous short stopping distance

/Superbjoser

Edited 30 December, 2010 by Superbjoser

[Sprightlybob]

Faced with the choice of being hit by a car head on or trying to get out the way what would you do?

Me, I would do my best and get out the way so if this makes me an idiot for trying to avoid an accident through others inability to drive according to the conditions then an IDIOT I AM AND PROUD!

Never said I rely on the handbrake, what I rely on is good driving skills and driving according to the conditions. The Institute of Advanced Motorists seem to think I am a good driver as I have past the test twice, I did the test again just to see if any bad habits had crept in from the first time I passed and none had so this IDIOT must be doing something right

For anyone wanting to learn how to drive a car in adverse conditions, the IAM run some very good courses on skid pans to learn various avoidance techneques.

As for infront of the police, yes in a private car park behind barriers prior to competing, what annoyed the police was that they had seen me drive the car to the event as I used to drive the rally car to events, commpete and drive home again, they just wanted to make sure what happend in competition stayed in competition.

Now that I've got your attention!! Learning to drive and/or practising on a skid pan is very good for those occasions when you meet a driving emergency WHILE DRIVING ON A SKID PAN!! For the rest of your life (99.999999%) this experience is crappo. US law enforcement agencies spent lots of $$$ teaching agents how to handle cars in pursuit situations on skid pans. Turns out most high speed risky pursuits are on CROWDED PUBLIC ROADS. Surprised?

You might even remember an incident when a Formula 1 driver (an Englishman I think) was showing off in a fancy sports car on a public street OUTSIDE the Melbourne Formula 1 racetrack. When pulled over by traffic police, his claim to be a superior driver and thus above the law of the common man received a hearty laugh from the John Hoppers as the cage door slammed. Experience is like the stern light on a boat - it reflects only the past. Safe street driving is pretty basic and doesn't need techniques for which the avergae vehicle is not designed.

[Ozsko]

Now that I've got your attention!! Learning to drive and/or practising on a skid pan is very good for those occasions when you meet a driving emergency WHILE DRIVING ON A SKID PAN!! For the rest of your life (99.999999%) this experience is crappo. US law enforcement agencies spent lots of $$$ teaching agents how to handle cars in pursuit situations on skid pans. Turns out most high speed risky pursuits are on CROWDED PUBLIC ROADS. Surprised?

You might even remember an incident when a Formula 1 driver (an Englishman I think) was showing off in a fancy sports car on a public street OUTSIDE the Melbourne Formula 1 racetrack. When pulled over by traffic police, his claim to be a superior driver and thus above the law of the common man received a hearty laugh from the John Hoppers as the cage door slammed. Experience is like the stern light on a boat - it reflects only the past. Safe street driving is pretty basic and doesn't need techniques for which the avergae vehicle is not designed.

What has the above got to do with a driver in Scandinavia or Europe in deep snow and ice? The whole place is one big public skid pan.

[Justin Case]

Now that I've got your attention!! Learning to drive and/or practising on a skid pan is very good for those occasions when you meet a driving emergency WHILE DRIVING ON A SKID PAN!! For the rest of your life (99.999999%) this experience is crappo. US law enforcement agencies spent lots of $$$ teaching agents how to handle cars in pursuit situations on skid pans. Turns out most high speed risky pursuits are on CROWDED PUBLIC ROADS. Surprised?

You might even remember an incident when a Formula 1 driver (an Englishman I think) was showing off in a fancy sports car on a public street OUTSIDE the Melbourne Formula 1 racetrack. When pulled over by traffic police, his claim to be a superior driver and thus above the law of the common man received a hearty laugh from the John Hoppers as the cage door slammed. Experience is like the stern light on a boat - it reflects only the past. Safe street driving is pretty basic and doesn't need techniques for which the avergae vehicle is not designed.

So you are saying that the approx 25 million people who live in the broader Scandinavia and have winter season atleast 3 months a year, don´t need the experience gained from practising on a skid pan?

I wonder why it is mandatory to spend a day with a driving instructor on the skid pan before taking a Norwegian driver´s license....

[stevehg]

You might even remember an incident when a Formula 1 driver (an Englishman I think) was showing off in a fancy sports car on a public street OUTSIDE the Melbourne Formula 1 racetrack. When pulled over by traffic police, his claim to be a superior driver and thus above the law of the common man received a hearty laugh from the John Hoppers as the cage door slammed. Experience is like the stern light on a boat - it reflects only the past. Safe street driving is pretty basic and doesn't need techniques for which the avergae vehicle is not designed.

yes I do remember, shame your recollection differs so much from what actually happened.

[wamp]

Safe street driving is pretty basic and doesn't need techniques for which the avergae vehicle is not designed.

Now this statement here is the main reason why every single year, hundreds of lorry-drivers get stuck in scandinavia. - because they think that they can use the same driving techniques and/or skills wherever; not regarding the enviroment they drive in.

(I have a feeling most of them think something in the lines of "I'm a professional driver. I need not concern myself with the fact that there's snow/ice on the roads, and that I use summer tyres.. after all, I am a professio........dang I'm stuck." )

In Norway forinstance, when you take your drivers licence, it's mandatory to have a session where you drive on a slippery surface; and try out different manouvers to avoid collisions. One of the things you also try is stopping the car as fast as possible; using both handbreak and normal breaks.

I don't know whether you are taught manouvers like this elsewhere, but the fact is that the term "Safe driving" and not least the BASIC tecniques you mention? well they may vary from place to place depending on the enviroment.

EDIT: aaand I see that thins is allready mentioned earlier in the thread. sowwy for 'repost'

Edited 31 December, 2010 by wamp

[perka]

When I talked to my dealer today about an annoying PLONG! every time I'll start up or shut down the engine (seems to be related to the phone connection) he told me a a somewhat scary story. When they had their demo-car out in the cold weather (around -20 degrees C) and took it in to the garage for some maintenance work the pana-roof cracked and crashed all together with in minutes. And a spare roof will take some three to four months to get there. The car is now completely useless until spare-roof arrives. This will be a expensive thing for VAG-group if it proved to be a design fault. And no, I didn't go for the pana-roof...

Oh, and regarding to the topic of this thread: It handles perfectly with non studded winter tires (Goodyear UltraGrip ICE+ 205/55/16). Keep a healthy distance to the vehicle in front of you, especially snowmobiles/bandwagons, the do have a tremendous short stopping distance

/Superbjoser

Sorry for the OT...

Did your dealer tell you anything else about the PLONG? For example how to get rid of it?

The only way I found is to turn the telephone volume down when in a call or when selecting ringtones in the Maxidot.

The problem with that is that you need to turn up the volume when calling and then remenber to turn it down again.

/P

[Superbjoser]

Sorry for the OT...

Did your dealer tell you anything else about the PLONG? For example how to get rid of it?

The only way I found is to turn the telephone volume down when in a call or when selecting ringtones in the Maxidot.

The problem with that is that you need to turn up the volume when calling and then remenber to turn it down again.

/P

Hi P!

OT: He told me nothing about the PLONG, there seems to be a little knowledge about this, and I really can't understand the idio... eeh, engineer at Skoda that thought that this PLONG would be a appreciated feature for the user! Another thing: I always get a message to check my SAFE-locking, see owners manual... witch doesn't give anything. Same story here. Nobody knows. Guessing like "cars self-monitoring system" and so on... Is it so hard for a engineer to get this? Give the user a message when he/she actually can react on it. And it should be well documented in the manual! In any other case: save it for service and give it to the engineer that cares. I don't. Frustrating...

My solution to this PLONG is to close down blue-tooth-connection on my phone during small-driving and use it for the longer trips instead. My headset works really good so I do not actually need it. For the rest of you that wonder why I took it: It was in a set of stuff following the offer on the car at that time.

On this threads topic: I couldn't agree more on wamps earlier comment. In addition: Everybody should know the difference of playing around (show off) in public roads and emergency maneuvering in order to avoid an accident. The former should be punished by revoking the driver license. The latter should be mandatory in order to get one...at least in my humble opinion...

Question to wamp: In what way do you use the handbrake together with the cars ordinary braking system to shortening the cars braking distance? The ABS-system should minimize it... Maybe time for me to take another safe-driving course again?

/Superbjoser

[casar]

Question to wamp: In what way do you use the handbrake together with the cars ordinary braking system to shortening the cars braking distance? The ABS-system should minimize it...

It depends on the surface you are driving when braking. ABS in theory should minimize the distance on concrete, asphalt and similar surfaces. But definitely not on gravel road or something like that. Like snow covered road for example. ;->

Cars have ABS because with ABS you can *maneuver* the car when braking and in vast majority of cases this ability greatly prevail shorter braking distance.

Aleš

[Superbjoser]

It depends on the surface you are driving when braking. ABS in theory should minimize the distance on concrete, asphalt and similar surfaces. But definitely not on gravel road or something like that. Like snow covered road for example. ;->

Cars have ABS because with ABS you can *maneuver* the car when braking and in vast majority of cases this ability greatly prevail shorter braking distance.

Aleš

Hi!

Thanks for the answer. The gravel driving is not actual for me, snow on the other hand... But seriously, if you use the handbrake on snow you most probably will lock up your back wheels (at least I do on a big, empty, spacious parking lot... ) and that makes me loose control and braking ability on the car. But I hear what you mean: It is time for me to take another safe-driving course again.

Happy New Year to you all!

/Superbjoser

[wamp]

Question to wamp: In what way do you use the handbrake together with the cars ordinary braking system to shortening the cars braking distance? The ABS-system should minimize it... Maybe time for me to take another safe-driving course again?

/Superbjoser

Well... now you made me feel old... :-p

When I took my license, ABS was "brand new", and most people claimed "I can do a better job breaking manually instead of relying on a computer" and stuff like that, saying "the ABS thingy adds several meters in break-length during an emergency situation"

turns out; most people actually could bring the car to a complete stop faster than the ABS system when trying. But the fact that you don't know how you'll actually react in a near-crash incident but will probably STAND on the break instead of pumping it (like in the old days), combined with the manuverabilty you have with ABS, made it 'standard equiment' (or should I say mandatory?)

anyway... back in the old days,when I took my license, we drove a day on a place drenched with fish-oil to make it slippery and similar to snow/ice. our car HAD the brand new ABS thingy, and so we were lucky enough to drive both with and without it, to compare the difference; and also with/without handbreak applied.

I don't remember the exact results; but I do remember that:

* adding the handbreak when driving in a completely straight line could save several meters in break-length (both with and without ABS)

* driving without ABS could also save several meters in break length; IF you managed to get maximum break power, just enough NOT to block the wheels. -do note that our drivers teacher managed this, while us students increased the length compared to ABS

* if you tried to steer the slightest while applying handbreak, the car would "live a life on it's own" read: turn approx 70-90 degrees in the angle you steered.

also what we learned that if it's REALLY slippery, you HAVE to use the handbreak to steer, because in any other case, your car will head straight on..

so our conclusion was that if you meet a hazardous situation,

1: never ever over-steer; just turn slightly on the wheel, and you will have a higher probabililty of your car actually turning at all

2: if the car keeps going straight, DO NOT over-steer, instead apply full force of the handbreak for a short short period of time; the car then WTILL steer away

3: pump the break fast unless you know the sweet-spot. if you have a brand new car with this ABS thingy; STEP ON IT.

oh well. like I said, that was back in the day..

now I have a brand new car with ABS BSA and/or a lot of 3-letter-word stuff that will keep you safe... and also anti-spin, cruise control and.. well... you name it..

I don't have a car. I have an advanced computer that just HAPPENS to also have wheels on it.

To steer this mother off the road, you'll really be wanting to, and even then if you manage, you have airbags all over the place :-p

(yeah, I know, all you suiciders out there are thinking "No way I'm ever getting a superb" :-o)

oh well......

now for something completely different:

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!!!