Potent DSG

[JamesDensley]

Having only driven two ‘automatics’ (Fabia VRS on several test drives and a mates 5 Series MSport) I did really think they wouldnt be a touch on a manual, but was really impressed by both setups. After reading an article in March’s edition of EVO magazine, the potency of a DSG setup over a manual has been confirmed (to me at least).

The article I am referring to is a shoot out involving a DS3-R (204hp), MINI JCW (208hp), RS Clio (197hp), Corsa VXR (189hp) and the new Polo GTI (178hp). The Fabia and Polo I consider pretty much on a level pegging, perhaps with the Fabia being slightly heavier (1218kg vs1184kg) and unbelievable better value!!! Quoted figures by manufactures always have to be taken with a pinch of salt, especially claimed mpg!

EVO conduct several real world timed runs, 0-30, 0-40, 0-50, 0-60, etc etc 0-120 in all five cars. I was really impressed and by reading the article so were EVO at how the Polo (the least powerful car being tested) was the fastest 0-60 at 7.1seconds and kept level pegging against the other hatches (albeit slight damp conditions), even beating the VXR to 100. They’ve put this down to the clever DSG, which would perform the same results every time.

Just goes to show more power isn’t always going to make you the fastest, DSG clever little brain can help though! Although I don’t doubt a RS Clio would be faster round a track, I don’t drive to work on a track, I use the Motorway! If anything a DSG would allow a car to be driven more to its limits, being able to change gear using the paddles or letting the system do it itself through sharp corners without taking a hand away from the steering wheel must be a good thing.

Out of interest there’s also an article of the Fabia VRS against a Lancia Delta Integrale Evo.

Edited 11 February, 2011 by JamesDensley

[Stu vRS]

Having only driven two ‘automatics’ (Fabia VRS on several test drives and a mates 5 Series MSport) I did really think they would a touch on a manual, but was really impressed by both setups. After reading an article in March’s edition of EVO magazine, the potency of a DSG setup over a manual has been confirmed (to me at least).

.....

Out of interest there’s also an article of the Fabia VRS against a Lancia Delta Integrale Evo.

Any links to the articles please?

I do agree the DSG will almost certainly be quicker if there was an exact same car with a manual box.

[Stu vRS]

<Double post, sorry>

Edited 11 February, 2011 by Stu vRS

[JamesDensley]

have to subscribe to read the magazine/article online .

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/263023/latest_issue_of_evo_magazine.html

Also point to note, theres a A1 1.4TSI(180hp) with quattro setup and a manual gearbox!!!!!!!

Edited 11 February, 2011 by JamesDensley

[pipsyp]

DSG is great. There is absolutely no way you can change gear as well or as quickly in a manual car; being a robotised manual gearbox there is also no power loss through torque converters. It is however not perfect.

* DSG without paddle shifts is quite boring to drive. With some VAG cars paddles are extra or not available at all. I drove a Scirocco 2.0 TDi with DSG and no paddles and whilst the box was impressive on the move it wasnt fun. Changing manually using the gear selector didnt raise my spirits either.

On this note, the DSG gearboxes dont mate very well with the diesels in my opinion. If you use S mode, I found the car wanted to rev to the red line in every gear under full throttle which given the lack of top end power on the CR engined cars means power tailed off and progress hindered quite noticably. You're probably best off leaving it in D. A real shame.

* Smooth progress in stop start traffic isnt particularly easy because of the automated clutch arrangement. They tend to have a delayed response then a surge of power upon take off which can sometimes be a little unpredictable.

* Unless you are fortunate to have one with a winter mode (some VW's have this) they are awful in poor conditions such as snow. Bit like having a BMW!

* I think it is a shame in S mode that the gearbox doesnt become completely manual i.e up and downshifting only when instructed or when rolling to a stop. Would allow much greater control. I know some tuning companies do a DSG software remap for this very reason; just think its a shame it isnt a standard factory feature - particularly on the more powerful cars.

* Paddles (particularly on the Fabia vRS) are rather close to the indicator and wiper stalks. Takes some getting used to. On my first drive of one went to chop down a couple of gears and ended up flashing the lights haha!

With the Fabia vRS, I get the impression in order to make the swiftest progress its best to put the car into S and let the gearbox do the work. I think it probably takes a bit of practise with the paddles to be able to make better gear selection choices.

Personally given the choice I'd still probably preference a manual to have just that little bit more control; particularly given this would no doubt reduce the cost of the car even further but I'll happily live with DSG seeing as I have no other choice with the vRS.

Those that go and buy a Polo GTi purely for badge snobbery reasons must be absolutely crazy. Sure ultimately it is probably slightly nicer being the more modern car but it most definitely isnt worth £3-4K + more than the Fabia. Love the fact the Fabia is available as an estate too; thats exactly what I've ordered.

[pipsyp]

have to subscribe to read the magazine/article online .

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/263023/latest_issue_of_evo_magazine.html

Also point to note, theres a A1 1.4TSI(180hp) with quattro setup and a manual gearbox!!!!!!!

Had a look at the A1 Quattro on the Auto Express site. I guess they had to do something to address the lack of potency in the A1 range until the RS1 arrives. Still I bet the price of it's going to be north of £20k and it's no quicker really than the Fabia/Polo. Might have 4WD but it will make it heavier and thirstier; the MPG on a vRS is bad enough I reckon!

[JamesDensley]

crazy money really, i heard the average people are spending on A1 in Germany is around £23k , all those lovely costly options

[pipsyp]

Mental, you can have a nice A3 S-line for that!!

[vRSy]

have to subscribe to read the magazine/article online .

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/263023/latest_issue_of_evo_magazine.html

Also point to note, theres a A1 1.4TSI(180hp) with quattro setup and a manual gearbox!!!!!!!

Ive just subscribed to EVO, Redline and road and track. now considering i buy most of these evrery month at about £5 per magazine thats a bargain for a years subscritpion

reference an A1 with quattro and 180 ps. If it stays the same power it wont be quicker and if it is it will just be sales figures.

Its going to be heavier than the vRSA/Cupra and GTI for a fact. Audi interiors are above all the other standards, all the extra goodies etc all weigh more, the theres the quattro weight onto. Unless they change the map on he car there is no way it will be comparable

[Doubleglazing]

DSG would be alright if the kickdown function were disabled in manual mode. It is this one thing that ruins the car for me. Upshifts at the red line I can live with, but the unwanted downshifts when executing a specific manoeuvre in my chosen gear are unforgivable, and mean that I can't drive the car as fast or with full commitment. Control, fluidity and balance are removed from the driving experience. Smoothness and safe speed is replaced with a screaming engine and power understeer taking me off my chosen line, particularly in the damp.

I like my car, but the DSG is crude and cackhanded.

I need that REVO DSG remap, but they don't do one for the Furby vRS.

[vRSy]

DSG would be alright if the kickdown function were disabled in manual mode. It is this one thing that ruins the car for me. Upshifts at the red line I can live with, but the unwanted downshifts when executing a specific manoeuvre in my chosen gear are unforgivable, and mean that I can't drive the car as fast or with full commitment. Control, fluidity and balance are removed from the driving experience. Smoothness and safe speed is replaced with a screaming engine and power understeer taking me off my chosen line, particularly in the damp.

I like my car, but the DSG is crude and cackhanded.

I need that REVO DSG remap, but they don't do one for the Furby vRS.

Ptorque have a DSG7 remap available, which iirc removes the kick down feature. he also the only one who is mapping fabia vRS at the moment due to the new ecu encryptions

[logiclee]

My Passat is a 140TDi DSG and a workmate has a 170TDi manual. On a dual carraigeway at higher speeds he can pull away from me but I can have him from the lights to past 60mph every time, he really gets annoyed about it too.

On my diesel at least the fastest way from the line is to use manual mode and change up before the redline. I have driven a Fabia VRS and a 1.2TSi DSG but never tried to absolutely floor them.

On VW models in manual mode you can put your foot down until you feel a resistance, as the accelerator is electronic this is actually flat out. Push the pedal further and operate the switch and the box will kick down even in manual mode.

So if you want full speed in manual mode without kickdown then pressing the accelerator down to the kickdown switch will give you that.

As I say I'm not sure if Fabia DSG models are the same but I'm sure you get what I mean.

Cheers

Lee

[blueR36]

The tricked up ( VERY EXPENSIVE) A1s look nice, but are as dull as ditchwater in base colourwith no bling attatched

[Furbytom]

DSG would be alright if the kickdown function were disabled in manual mode. It is this one thing that ruins the car for me.

When I testdrove a vRS I found that if you knock the gearstick over to the left it locks it in manual mode and therefore won't kickdown when you floor the throttle, it will just accelerate in-gear.

[Tech1e]

When I testdrove a vRS I found that if you knock the gearstick over to the left it locks it in manual mode and therefore won't kickdown when you floor the throttle, it will just accelerate in-gear.

It still kicks down if you give it 100%

[logiclee]

It still kicks down if you give it 100%

Please see my post above, as far as I know all vag dsg model electronic pedals are calibrated so 100% is just before the kickdown switch. Pressing the pedal down all the way doesnt increase engine output just operates the kickdown switch.

Cheers

Lee

[Furbytom]

It still kicks down if you give it 100%

Didn't notice this on my test-drive, could be a potential pain in the backside!

[Tech1e]

Please see my post above, as far as I know all vag dsg model electronic pedals are calibrated so 100% is just before the kickdown switch. Pressing the pedal down all the way doesnt increase engine output just operates the kickdown switch.

Cheers

Lee

I know, 100% to me would be all the way down and operating the switch.

[simonsheil]

The EVO twin clutch box I had (very similar design) once in manual only changed down to prevent stalling, other than that you could sit on the redline or pootle along waiting for the turbo to kick in. In addition and I think a big plus, the paddles were mounted to the column and not the wheel.

On track they were quickest in auto on super sport mode that held revs above 4500rpm.

[Stu vRS]

The EVO twin clutch box I had (very similar design) once in manual only changed down to prevent stalling, other than that you could sit on the redline or pootle along waiting for the turbo to kick in. In addition and I think a big plus, the paddles were mounted to the column and not the wheel.

On track they were quickest in auto on super sport mode that held revs above 4500rpm.

I agree, I wish the paddles were mounted on the column as opposed to the steering wheel.

If I am pulling left or right out of a junction in manual mode, I often find myself changing up to second gear using the gear stick + as opposed to the paddles as they are awkward to reach whilst in a turn.