Ok, there's certainly no interceptor or piggyback for VAG (possibly any Euro) that does some of that.

I don't really want to get into this, but the MTM Cantronic units are basically piggyback ECUs and they potentially have access to all signals on the CAN bus, so in theory they can do anything a remap can do.

Notice all the caveats in that sentence though

Edited 9 March, 201115 yr by wja96

I don't really want to get into this, but the MTM Cantronic units are basically piggyback ECUs and they potentially have access to all signals on the CAN bus, so in theory they can do anything a remap can do.

Notice all the caveats in that sentence though

It has access to all signals, but it doesnt mean it can do what a remap can do.

Just as an example, it can alter RPM signal, but if we touch that, it affects every calculation where ECU uses rpm signal.

With a remap, we can choose which RPM based maps we modify.

It has access to all signals, but it doesnt mean it can do what a remap can do.

Just as an example, it can alter RPM signal, but if we touch that, it affects every calculation where ECU uses rpm signal.

With a remap, we can choose which RPM based maps we modify.

I don't know much about this topic in terms of mapping however, looking at it from a pure equation or calculation point of view. If you have a given input number (stock ecu), a desired output (desired map output parameters) and a complex variable in-between (piggy back). I don't see why it can't be mathematically possible.

Edit: If I may explain my point further.

e.g.

Given initial condition of rpm 2000.

Stock map will give output numbers of 100 for oxygen and 100 for fuel.

Desired required is 200, 200

Piggyback will put x2 to output of fuel and oxygen.

Obviously there will be more parameters in the initial condition making it much more complex with time/temp etc. but as wja96 it is theoretically/mathematically possible.

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Edited 12 March, 201115 yr by JLneonhug

From the chat I had today with the MTM salesman (in German!) they have a range of units that cover all the bases between what I would term a tuning box and a complete replacement ECU that they can load their own code on top of the original map. The replacement ECU box isn't cheap though. Apparently ABT also have a tuning solution like this so they don't have to worry about messing about with pulling ECUs. As VAG's German/European tuning partner (you can buy an ABT tuned car new from VAG dealers everywhere except the UK apparently), you'd think ABT would be able to remap a car without having to crack the encryption?

Just a quick update from Shark HQ. This topic came to mind, we're working on a cool function on 1.8T gen ECU's, which requires a modification of a certain speed threshold within the ECU.

There is no way you could do this with a piggyback, since there's only one speed signal input, and if you alter that, the car wont run too well.

Also, if we would implement this function externally, it would trigger a fault code in the ECU for faulty speed signal.

I still think its not possible to have anywhere near the same functionality with an piggyback tuning box thing, as you can with a proper remap. Not even in theory.

Just getting back to the main discussion, I have a quick question.

Just say for example a Revo stage 2+ file on a 2.0tfsi engine.

If you get 5 cars on the same setting with the sps device, Then log each car with VCDS, then the timing pull wouldnt be the same for every car. One car may be able to run a lot more timing advance than another car without reaching high levels of timing pull.

So if shark sends out a stage 3 file for example, if that car 'A' was dynod and tested, then it might give a different level to what car 'B' would make? This could also be the case with boost levels etc etc

So do you just run a mild level of timing etc to compensate for the inequalities between different cars?

Or would this be the benefit of a custom map, or tweaked generic map where the fuelling, boost and timing could be adjusted to your particular vehicle?

I have no clue technically and tbh most of the posts have gone way over my head but the way I see it is this:

My tuner came to me, we took the car out and he plugged in his laptop, after about 10 minutes we came back to my home, at this point my tuner referred to his laptop and found a file marked 2.0l Tfsi (generic), he then spent 30-40 minutes uploading the file to my ECU, during this process I provided him with a cup of tea (custom) whilst sipping he was constantly typing stuff on the keyboard, I pressume altering values etc as he had asked intially what I wanted from the map - fuel econmy, mid range torque better acceleration, based on that I would say he was customising a generic map (or making me think he was ).

So it stands to reason that a fully custom map would be written from scratch on a specific vehicle using logs, dynos and real time diagnostics.

I don't think my tuner is very popular in some circles - for good reason - but 2 years on and I still smile when I get behind the wheel, and that smile will grow in the coming weeks

From this I think the main thing to go for is recommendations, word of mouth is still the best advertising media, imho of course.

I know this is an old thread but...

 

My understanding is a generic map is a map originally custom made using a donor car and then sold on as an “off the shelf” product. A custom map would be a generic map loaded as a starting point but then the car is put on a rolling road and optimisations are made if required. 

 

I’ve heard it said that not all engines are born equal and it seems reasonable to me to expect there may be some variation in power & torque produced by different units of the same engine type. I assume the manufacturers map is generic as surely it wouldn’t be cost effective to custom map each engine, hence the variation in power and torque (within certain tolerances I’m sure). Would it be fair to say a generic map is the same idea but with less conservative parameters to the manufacturers map? 

 

I’d be more than happy to go the generic route, my only concern is if there is the possibility of an issue due to any factory variation between my engine and that of the donor car. Perhaps this is where a custom map comes into it’s own?

On 14/08/2019 at 09:19, Kamikazekid said:

I know this is an old thread but...

 

 

I’d be more than happy to go the generic route, my only concern is if there is the possibility of an issue due to any factory variation between my engine and that of the donor car. Perhaps this is where a custom map comes into it’s own?

I have a generic Map on my 1.9PD octavia, put on at 100,000 miles, so far its travelled a further 140,000 miles on it without a fault or part replacement, so I'd say if you get the 'right' generic map (not all generic maps are made equal) then you're fine.
I also have a custom map on my Ford Capri with a custom ECU, this does mean it is tailored to your engine. But it can also mean there is less free tolerance (for example switching between 95 and 97/98RON fuel). BUT you can do a lot more to suit YOU, for example throttle cut on overrun and things like that, or where you want lean/cruise mapping to be etc.