Please Help! Car Dead!

[vrsneil]

Hi All,

Went to start the car this morning and the remote key wouldnt work so opened with the key.

Then went to start and nothing, no lights, no sound...dead.

Im guessing battery, but AA want £100 to come out (pus an overpriced charge for the battery no doubt) as I havnt got the "homestart" only "roadside"

Any ideas??

Car used daily (10 -15 miles per day)and was fine yesterday.

Cheers

[Bowders1]

Hi All,

Went to start the car this morning and the remote key wouldnt work so opened with the key.

Then went to start and nothing, no lights, no sound...dead.

Im guessing battery, but AA want £100 to come out (pus an overpriced charge for the battery no doubt) as I havnt got the "homestart" only "roadside"

Any ideas??

Car used daily (10 -15 miles per day)and was fine yesterday.

Cheers

Does seem a bit strange to be completly dead.

If you have jump leads give it a go at seeing if you can get it running.

Perhaps check the fuses to see if the nain ignition ones are blown.

Also check the fuse box on top of the battery . That main fuse can melt due to poor connection / water ingress

[vrsneil]

Hi thanks for that,

Have a mate on his way with leads.

However a fuse would make more sense, seeing as it hasnt had any problems starting before.

Also noticed the boot wont open, radio, lights, nothing - would this lead you to look at any partuicular "main" fuse, if so, where?

Many thanks

[mountie66]

Hi thanks for that,

Have a mate on his way with leads.

However a fuse would make more sense, seeing as it hasnt had any problems starting before.

Also noticed the boot wont open, radio, lights, nothing - would this lead you to look at any partuicular "main" fuse, if so, where?

Many thanks

Sounds like you left something on and it is completly dead!Don't touch nothing and put leads on then check to see if you left something on

[vrsneil]

Yes, that was my 1st thought but radio was off, so were lights, and I have no alarm to drain it.... Cant think of anything else that can be left on???

Thanks

[mbames]

If it jump starts ok, then just pop the battery on charge for the rest of the day and see if it happens again. Halfords and the like can test your battery to tell you if it is knackered (although they may just say it is is knackered). I got my replacement battery from Eurocar Parts and then carried it around in the boot for a few weeks until the old one eventually gave up!

[vrsneil]

UPDATE.

Ok, we connected the leads and even before the good car was turned on, my fans started turning at speed, (no key in my car)

Then we started the good car and the fans continued, then turned mined to "Mar" and all works fine (lights, dash, etc...) but then when I go to turn it over the car does nothing appart from make a single click noise from the engine bay????

Then when we disconnected all leads the fans still turn (very slowly) until till they finally die a minute or so later.

Very confused, obviously the battery is dead but the fans are coming on with no key and it wont turn over.

Tried all three fuses ontop of the battery and the "ignition" fuse in the main fuse board in dash, and had the same results

Any ideas??????

Thanks

[fordfan]

The battery is dead because the fans have drained it, possibly due to a faulty fan control unit. The unit will be on the chassis rail under the battery. It won't turn over possibly because the jump battery or leads can't supply enough electricity.

[wolfinsheepsclothing]

The battery is dead because the fans have drained it, possibly due to a faulty fan control unit. The unit will be on the chassis rail under the battery. It won't turn over possibly because the jump battery or leads can't supply enough electricity.

best thing to do is take battery off and fully charge it!! you will need a good set of jump leads to start the engine. or leave you mate leads on with his engine on fast idle. let his engine charge your battery for at least 10 mins. perhaps it might start then with his leads

[rk696]

What fordfan said,

Chances are the battery is badly damaged now anyway, being discharged so much.

You probably have a faulty fan controller. Try replacing it and see if the fans still come one.

[rk696]

Even try disconnecting the fans just to get the car started.

[vrsneil]

Thanks for input all.

Fan controller could be at fault, however it doesn't explain why the car won't turnover, as im taking the other cars power directly, or does it? Could it have broken the starter relay? As I can only hear a relay type noise when turnin it over on the jump leads, (other car is a porshe 944 with a new battery)

I'm not auto electric minded so appologies for my ignorance :-)

[ExAudiSi]

I have seen this in the past, it depends on how good the jump leads are. I once had a few sets of Halfords leads which were not properly crimped to the clips and wouldn't have jump started a moped!

If the leads are not too good, the extra current that your fans are drawing will make it even more difficult to get the car to start.

Also, make sure you have the other car running before you connect the leads otherwise you could finish up with two flat batteries.

By the way, your mate has extremely good taste in cars

Edited 20 February, 2011 by ExAudiSi

[vrsneil]

Hi there

The jump leads... Never thought of that, to be honest they are cheap - part of a gift set from woollies i think.

However it was powering the car as the dash lights, radio and head lights all worked fine.And when I disconnected the leads the fan still turned, albeit quite slowly so it is transfering power.

PS- As you mentioned, the 944 S2 is a great car, lovely to drive appart from the brakes which arent upto modern standards, the owner actually is an ex skoda user, I bought his old fabia vrs when he wanted a red one, then I moved to the octy and him to the Porker.... lovely sound too.

Anyway, back on topic... Still confused at why it wont turn over, any more ideas?

[mbames]

Thanks for input all.

Fan controller could be at fault, however it doesn't explain why the car won't turnover, as im taking the other cars power directly, or does it? Could it have broken the starter relay? As I can only hear a relay type noise when turnin it over on the jump leads, (other car is a porshe 944 with a new battery)

I'm not auto electric minded so appologies for my ignorance :-)

If your battery is totally flat then when your jump start, you are sucking power from your mates 944 into your flat battery and into your starter motor. You will need some pretty hefty jump cables. I have some made from Concorde cabling (they have happily jumped many cars). I have seen some cheapo (ie. thin) leads started to melt / smoke at their poorly made crimp joints, when trying to start some cars (primarily diesels).

The 944 needs to be running (pretty sure you said it was), otherwise you will just kill its battery.

Get the battery out and get it on charge, in the short turn I would suggest disconnecting the fan and seeing if the car starts on a fully charger battery. If it does, then reconnect the fans, and if it still starts but the fans continue to run then you have found your fault.

The smaller fan will run when the engine is running if air-con is turned on.

Edited 20 February, 2011 by mbames

[smileonimpact]

Just a quick thought for you,

Don't connect the negative jump lead directly to your flat battery, instead connect it to a good earth somewhere in the engine compartment, preferably the engine.

I have tried to jump start a few cars that would only start if jumped like this, one possible reason being a high resistance earth between battery and chassis, chassis and engine.

It may even be possible that your engine has lost its earth and something else (i'm open to suggestions) is finding an earth return through your fans, thus making them run all the time albeit slowly as they would be in series with the said something else, maybe even starter motor!

If you know anyone with a multimeter get them to measure the resistance from the disconnected negative clamp at your battery to the metal of the engine, it should be a very low reading i.e 0.2 ohms ish, anything over 1ohm would probably start to cause issues due to voltage drop across the resistance.

hope that helps.

Edited 20 February, 2011 by smileonimpact

[ExAudiSi]

Hi there

The jump leads... Never thought of that, to be honest they are cheap - part of a gift set from woollies i think.

However it was powering the car as the dash lights, radio and head lights all worked fine.And when I disconnected the leads the fan still turned, albeit quite slowly so it is transfering power.

PS- As you mentioned, the 944 S2 is a great car, lovely to drive appart from the brakes which arent upto modern standards, the owner actually is an ex skoda user, I bought his old fabia vrs when he wanted a red one, then I moved to the octy and him to the Porker.... lovely sound too.

Anyway, back on topic... Still confused at why it wont turn over, any more ideas?

1. Get some better jump leads, or charge the battery and try again.

It takes a lot less current to light all of your dash lights and radio than to start the car. The leads may be able to supply enough for than but not to start the car. They would probably be starting to get warm or even hot.

2. Back off topic, if the brakes on an S2 aren't up to modern standards, there is something wrong with them. It has the same set up as my 968 with 4 pot callipers all round. They do suffer from plate lift which can cause the pads to bind and so obviously they don't work as well as they should....Ok, I'll go and take my anorak off now

I'd definitely try some better leads though I think that is your main problem, or as already suggested, leave them connected to the 944 and let it charge your battery for a while before you try to start it. Earthing to the block or gearbox may help too.

Edited 20 February, 2011 by ExAudiSi

[vrsneil]

Hi,

The leads might be the issue trying to start: if there is not enough power in them or the battery would it result in a loud click from the engine bay (like a relay)

I read about conecting the lead to the block rather than my negative so that was done (it did spark a bit when putting it on, I guess that is normal as you are copmpleting the circuit????)

Off topic - ExAudiSi - Thanks for the pointer on plate lift on the S2, from a bit of googling the only way to get around this is to have the calipers refurbed or new ones, is that right? What sort of price does this cost, if you know? -PS Im also an ex Audi person, had a 2003 A4 sport, lovely car...

[mbames]

Hi,

The leads might be the issue trying to start: if there is not enough power in them or the battery would it result in a loud click from the engine bay (like a relay)

I read about connecting the lead to the block rather than my negative so that was done (it did spark a bit when putting it on, I guess that is normal as you are copmpleting the circuit????)

The click could be the starter motor trying to engage (or the controlling relay for the starter motor). The spark is generated upon completion of the circuit as your car obviously has a demand for current (this would not be the case if your battery was fully charged). Essentially by connecting the 944 to your car you are upping your cars 0volts to 12volts, and thus immediately trying to power all the circuitry in the car which is on in the background (plus the rad fan)

[vrsneil]

Well Ive called the local recovery co out, and they have a jump pack they will try to get me started so I can drop it off at my local garage. (if not they can tow at an extra £5)

Will update you all on the findings later, thanks everone for help but for the £30 call out fee I'd rather let the pro's diagnose it rather than me p155 about with limited (to naff all) knowledge LOL.

I wish I spent more time learning electronics at school now!

Cheers

[ExAudiSi]

Off topic - ExAudiSi - Thanks for the pointer on plate lift on the S2, from a bit of googling the only way to get around this is to have the calipers refurbed or new ones, is that right? What sort of price does this cost, if you know? -PS Im also an ex Audi person, had a 2003 A4 sport, lovely car...

It is possible to remove the plates and clean up the corrosion behind them, but its not easy as the plates are held on by domed allen screws (4 per calliper) and are Loctited in, so what frequently happens is that you either round off the hexagon or snap the screw.

There are companies who will refurb the calliper including new seals, pistons blead nipples and powder coating of the body, but I think this costs around £150 - £200 per calliper. I think that Euro Car Parts do re-furbed ones for about the same sort of money and new ones are over £300 from your local friendly OPC.

I found a set on eBay and bought them cheaply. When I got them they were in pretty good condition and my local Porsche specialist removed the plates and corrosion and fitted the new stainless screws for me for a very good price. Drop me a pm if you need any more suggestions on this.

[philc]

Well Ive called the local recovery co out, and they have a jump pack they will try to get me started so I can drop it off at my local garage. (if not they can tow at an extra £5)

Will update you all on the findings later, thanks everone for help but for the £30 call out fee I'd rather let the pro's diagnose it rather than me p155 about with limited (to naff all) knowledge LOL.

I wish I spent more time learning electronics at school now!

Cheers

The issue with cheap jump leads is usually that the leads are copper and the clips aluminium or steel, and they are crimped together. They might be OK when new, but any dampness that gets to them will cause corrosion (which is always worse with 2 dissimilar metals) Which increases the electrical resistance in the joint. Now, the fan probably takes a couple of amps or so, which won't be an issue. When you try to start the engine, you pull 100A or so through a bad connection and it all goes as heat, so not enough current can get through to spin the engine. Keep it up, and the plastic over the crimped connections will start to smoke. I speak from experience!

Phil

[vrsneil]

Hi Phil

Nicely put, now I understand! :-)

Im awaiting them now so hopefully their jump pack will have better luck.

Edited 21 February, 2011 by vrsneil

[vrsneil]

Right...

The man came to jump from his portable pack and it wouldnt quite turn over, so he connected it to his truck (which must have a suply with a much higher current suply) and it fired 1st time, no warning lights, radio code not needed (after 5 mins minutes of driving the "sage" mode cleared) and all ok. He said its a common VAG issue, but wasnt sure of the cause.

Drove it to the garage where it will be on charge all night, they noticed the fans still running after 10 minutes of the engine being off, so thats the culprit alright.

It even started when I turned the engine off when I arrived at the garage in "auto pilot" mode (i know, bad move - very lucky and I did think 5h1t as soon as I did it lol)

Anyways, hopefully its a sensor or wiring issue that they can trace and solve easily.

Also asked them to change the thermostat as it has been on the to-do list for a month or so and may even had contributed in some way?? Always on the cold side, never overheating)

Thanks everyone for their help and assistance

ExAudiSi - That pointer on plate lift has proved very useful and my mate has found a local Porsche specialist who thinks the same that has quoted £150 to clean the fronts and replace the plates (not a full refurb as he doesnt think it is required) to see if it recifies the problem, so thank you

[ExAudiSi]

ExAudiSi - That pointer on plate lift has proved very useful and my mate has found a local Porsche specialist who thinks the same that has quoted £150 to clean the fronts and replace the plates (not a full refurb as he doesnt think it is required) to see if it recifies the problem, so thank you

Glad I could help on that front too.

Tell your mate to join one of the Porsche forums, either PCGB or TIPEC as they are very useful resources and the 944 sections are usually the busiest.