Hello & HELP! DPF issues?

[crymshady]

Hi people, great forum and a wealth of info here! Just not sure what I should do with this issue..

I have an Octy VRS which seems to be having DPF issues, usual story with the warning light. Tried running the motorway stretch buyt still ended in limp mode, twice. Recovery from the motorway once with a reset at the dealer, but now it's happened again.

We've got 70K on the clock with an 08 plate. Previously had problems with the fuel injectors which had to be cleaned out due to metal particles being found in them (no clue how they got in there).

Could these issues be related? What are my options with the dealer tomorrow?

Thanks for any help in advance!!

[andyvee]

I wouldn't bother with the dealer unless it is just one of the sensors.

I would get a DPF delete done and then get it remapped to a Stage 1 with the DPF mapped out.

It will be cheaper and more reliable going forward (as well as more powerful and more economical!)

Give Ben@Shark Performance a call and talk it through with him once you know the dealer diagnostic and cost.

Where in the UK are you?

[crymshady]

I wouldn't bother with the dealer unless it is just one of the sensors.

I would get a DPF delete done and then get it remapped to a Stage 1 with the DPF mapped out.

It will be cheaper and more reliable going forward (as well as more powerful and more economical!)

Give Ben@Shark Performance a call and talk it through with him once you know the dealer diagnostic and cost.

Where in the UK are you?

OK, that sounds like Greek to me, and I don't speak Greek! What would that mean in layman's terms? We're based in Stockport (North West).

I'm assuming the diagnostic would ned to be run by the dealer tomorrow just to find out what % clogging there is as well as a cost for replacement/repair?

Thanks for the help.

[andyvee]

Let the dealer do the diagnostics and tell you what the problem is and how much it is going to cost.

Depending on what they say and how much it costs I would do what most people do when they get recurring DPF issues - get rid of it!

The only problem with this is that you will get an Warning light on as the ECU is expecting the DPF to be there.

If you take the car to a decent VW/Audi/Skoda specialist they can cut a flap in the DPF, get all the insides out and weld back up. It then looks like it still has a DPF come MoT time.

Now you need to stop the warning light - which means getting a remapper to reprogram the ECU so that it isn't monitoring/looking for the DPF. Seeing as the cost of this is about the same as a remap, you may as well have a Stage 1 remap done (more power and better economy).

Ben@Shark Performance can do this for you, he is Mansfield (about an hour and a quarter away from you over the tops to Chesterfield) and comes highly recommended, plus he is a site sponsor.

You will not suffer DPF issues again (as you don't have one!). The problem with DPFs is that when they start to play up over and over again it starts getting expensive. The DPFs on the PD170 in the VRS's is notoriously flakey, whereas the DPF on the CR170 seems to be almost troublefree as it has a more sophisticated fuel delivery system.

[trundlenut]

OK, that sounds like Greek to me, and I don't speak Greek! What would that mean in layman's terms? We're based in Stockport (North West).

I'm assuming the diagnostic would ned to be run by the dealer tomorrow just to find out what % clogging there is as well as a cost for replacement/repair?

Thanks for the help.

Basically remove the dpf and replace with a piece of pipe, then get the car remapped (fiddle with the ECU) so that it forgets it has a dpf. Speak to Ben at Shark (they are a sponsor on here) and I'm sure he can sort you out, also he's based in Mansfield so you get a nice drive over the Peak District to go and see him

[andyvee]

I'd go the letterbox and scrape out, weld back up route.

Looks original when inspected

[crymshady]

If you take the car to a decent VW/Audi/Skoda specialist they can cut a flap in the DPF, get all the insides out and weld back up. It then looks like it still has a DPF come MoT time.

By the sounds of this, it's something which would cause an Fail at MOT if discovered? How do I gaurantee that this wont happen? Obviously I'm a novice to this and need some reassurance (if anyone can provide it!)

What about when selling the motor at a later stage, is this something which I'd need to declare and will it effect resale value?

Incidentally, I bought the motor from Auriga Motors in Dronsfield, not a million miles away from Mansfield.

[andyvee]

Plenty of others do it this way, and have had no issues with MoT tests. Obviously, that is no guarantee though.

See what the dealers say and then take it from there - it could just be a sensor failure which isn't too expensive.

Anything more serious than that and I would most definitely get rid of the DPF.

As for declaring it when you sell it, yes - anyone with any sense buying a used vRS PD170 in a couple of years time will be pleased that you have had it done and they don't have to worry about expensive DPF related repair bills!

[crymshady]

Plenty of others do it this way, and have had no issues with MoT tests. Obviously, that is no guarantee though.

See what the dealers say and then take it from there - it could just be a sensor failure which isn't too expensive.

Anything more serious than that and I would most definitely get rid of the DPF.

As for declaring it when you sell it, yes - anyone with any sense buying a used vRS PD170 in a couple of years time will be pleased that you have had it done and they don't have to worry about expensive DPF related repair bills!

This may be a daft question, so I apologise in advance, but is removing the DPF something you'd recommend discussing with the dealer or just get the advice on the diagnostic and take it elsewhere?

[andyvee]

I wouldn't mention it to the dealer as they wouldn't approve

[Stuart_J]

It may come down to economics in the end. If the DPF is shot then its around a grand at the dealer to fix, not totally his fault as the parts are very expensive. DPF delete & remap is cheaper, plus with the delete is you should get slightly better mpg & a car thats much more responsive to drive. If the DPF is shot & you go delete I would have the guts of the old DPF removed, then it still looks like it has one which will help it pass the MOT

Firstly let the dealer do a diagnostic check & find out if it is the dpf, the system is over complicated & it may just be a sensor or something.

There are several specialists who can do the DPF delete, Ben as mentioned, Jabba in Peterbourough is another name that springs to mind & if you search this site I think a few more can do it.

DPF's have been forced on alll manufacturers by the Eurocrats tring to clean up cars & at the moment the technology is relativly new & many cars are failing with age. I can see at some point manufacturers of pattern parts coming up with much cheaper replacements as they did with catolithic converters on Petrol cars but thats not happened yet

[Lou_O]

Plenty of others do it this way, and have had no issues with MoT tests. Obviously, that is no guarantee though.

As for declaring it when you sell it, yes - anyone with any sense buying a used vRS PD170 in a couple of years time will be pleased that you have had it done and they don't have to worry about expensive DPF related repair bills!

The point about the MOT is who knows what checks they will introduce in the future. If I was having my DPF removed I'd want it done so that it looks like it's still there.

As for declaring the DPF removal I'd gave thought the insurance company would want to know.

[crymshady]

DPF's have been forced on alll manufacturers by the Eurocrats tring to clean up cars & at the moment the technology is relativly new & many cars are failing with age. I can see at some point manufacturers of pattern parts coming up with much cheaper replacements as they did with catolithic converters on Petrol cars but thats not happened yet

Cheers, this will help with the missus who wants to sell and buy something else. I don't want to get rid of the Octy, I love driving it and I'm concerned that depreciationg will make selling a fales economy. Added to that is the risk that the DPF on any other car has the same risks attached!

Could there be a link between this issue and the fuel injector problem we had last year?

The car is at the dealers now so I'll wait til they've run the diagnostic. What info should I be asking for to make a decision on what to do?

If I post it, can people help me? This place is a godsend!!

[Stuart_J]

Cheers, this will help with the missus who wants to sell and buy something else. I don't want to get rid of the Octy, I love driving it and I'm concerned that depreciationg will make selling a fales economy. Added to that is the risk that the DPF on any other car has the same risks attached!

Could there be a link between this issue and the fuel injector problem we had last year?

The car is at the dealers now so I'll wait til they've run the diagnostic. What info should I be asking for to make a decision on what to do?

If I post it, can people help me? This place is a godsend!!

No idea if injectors are connected but extreemly unlikely, DPF is on the exhaust so taking gasses out of the engine, injectors are putting fuel in so DPF further down the line.

Post up the results, there are many knowledgable people on here & some less knowledgable, see what people say, there are bound to be many different views. First consideration will be cost I guess & if it goes to a tuner you have to get it there & when can they fit it in if you need the car. You could drive it in limp mode & if all else fails & you are in the AA or RAC they can pick you up to finish the journey, just make sure you are a few miles from home before you call them .

Ive had 2 Skodas with DPF's the first one gave a few problems but then settled down, on the second car it was removed after a few thousand miles, it didnt break, I just dodnt want to be stranded again, the first one failed 1/2 way down a mountain in France, 3 hours in limp mode to a dealer & took a week to fix, completely ****ed up our touring holiday. I just didnt want to risk that again.

On the forst point I know someone who has a Citroen garage, hes getting about 3 cars a week to fix

[Richf]

. If the DPF is shot & you go delete I would have the guts of the old DPF removed, then it still looks like it has one which will help it pass the MOT

The mot doesnt go on looks it matters on emissions and thats all whether it looks like it still has a DPF doesnt come into the test.

Diesel emission standards have recently been tightened for Euro IV cars

[bertie1249]

I have had the DPF removed and re-mapped at Shark Performance, as have many others on here. The service is excellent plus the car drives totally different. Much better torque and power throughout the range and no flat spots.

[crymshady]

I have had the DPF removed and re-mapped at Shark Performance, as have many others on here. The service is excellent plus the car drives totally different. Much better torque and power throughout the range and no flat spots.

Sounds good, have you been through an MOT since?

Thanks so much for all the advice people. Wish I'd taken a more hands on approach through engineering at school.

Still waiting for the results.....

[Lou_O]

The mot doesnt go on looks it matters on emissions and thats all whether it looks like it still has a DPF doesnt come into the test.

But there is nothing to say that in the future the MOT won't be changed to say something like 'If originally fitted, the DPF must still be fitted'

In fact the speculation is that this will be added to the MOT along with retro-fitted HID etc.

So if the removal is obvious the tester would be obliged to fail the car.

[Richf]

There is nothing to say that in future mot rules will require all cars to be painted yellow , cant see that happening either but lets get back the the here and now and be realistic and factual.

The fact is that mot stations have had to invest in new testing equipment for emissions on diesel engines and that cars are being held to a higher standard albiet not retrospectively

Thats whats happening now , whether the removal of the dpf will result in increased emissions to the point where a car would fail I very much doubt on a PD car , on a CR it may be a different story.

Put it this way I wouldnt replace the dpf on my car if it became faulty in the same way I dont have a catalytic converter fitted to my other car

[crymshady]

Right, spoke to the techie. Good news (possibly) it sounds like the DPF isn't blocked as the light went out at the garage. Reckon it might be the pressure sensor after all. The diagnostic hasn't shown a blockage (are there any specific details I should be asking on this? %?). Ballpark figure for the sensor is £40-£60.

I've been told that the light wouldn't go off if there was a genuine failure with the DPF so they'll give it a good run around this afternoon to see if the fault occurs again, but they've just recommended the usual regen cycle in 4th at 20K rev to keep it clear on a regular basis.

They also mentioned a diesel additive which can be used to help clean the DPF which they'll look into for compatibility and get back to me this afternoon.

The missus uses the car during the week (mostly town driving) so I may get off lightly here and it just be a recurring issue due to her driving technique and lack of regen. I assume most of you would still recommend the delete and clean out of the DPF guts to avoid this issue in the future?

What sort of cost are we looking at for this and what's the approx uplift in bhp on Stage 1?

*fingers crossed*

[nick74]

The fact is that mot stations have had to invest in new testing equipment for emissions on diesel engines and that cars are being held to a higher standard albiet not retrospectively

Thats whats happening now , whether the removal of the dpf will result in increased emissions to the point where a car would fail I very much doubt on a PD car , on a CR it may be a different story.

Highly unlikely anything recent-ish will fail I think. All that's happening in the near future (July '11) is that the diesel smoke test for July '08 diesels onwards is being lowered to 1.5m-¹

Even my mid 90s non-cat, non-dpf, Euro 2 Xantia TD used to get lower MOT emissions readings than that!

[onmeheadson]

Good news crymshady!

What is a regen? I've heard it a few times but not sure what it is or how it works?

[crymshady]

Good news crymshady!

What is a regen? I've heard it a few times but not sure what it is or how it works?

Regeneration. Driving the car at over 20K revs for 10-20 mins is supposed to heat up the DPF to a point where it ignites the excess soot and burns clean. This is usually done without you noticing, but if you do a lot of "stop-start" driving inner city, you are meant to force the car through this cycle. So I'm told.

Can anyone confirm?

Just had confirmation that it's clear and no issues with the sensor this afternoon so the garage haven't even charged for their time!! Really impressed with their service.

Still thinking about deleting the DPF altogether though so as to avoid this in the future, just need an idea on costs etc.

Edited 25 March, 2011 by crymshady

[onmeheadson]

Regeneration. Driving the car at over 20K revs for 10-20 mins is supposed to heat up the DPF to a point where it ignites the excess soot and burns clean. This is usually done without you noticing, but if you do a lot of "stop-start" driving inner city, you are meant to force the car through this cycle. So I'm told.

Can anyone confirm?

Just had confirmation that it's clear and no issues with the sensor this afternoon so the garage haven't even charged for their time!! Really impressed with their service.

Still thinking about deleting the DPF altogether though so as to avoid this in the future, just need an idea on costs etc.

Thanks for the info.

I'm going to get mine removed and deleted at some stage. I've spoken to Ben at Shark, he's a very knowledgeable guy a very highly recommended on briskoda. At the time he quoted me £549 but they may have changed since.

[Lou_O]

lik

Highly unlikely anything recent-ish will fail I think. All that's happening in the near future (July '11) is that the diesel smoke test for July '08 diesels onwards is being lowered to 1.5m-¹

Even my mid 90s non-cat, non-dpf, Euro 2 Xantia TD used to get lower MOT emissions readings than that!

My point wasn't that the car will fail emissions, as stated the emissions will almost certainly be ok.

My point is that MOT tests are being widened to check for things that aren't currently in the test, such as non-conforming HID lamps.

It's quite possible that there will be an addition to the test to say that if a DPF was fitted it should remain fitted. In light of this I'd recommend that if you do have the DPF removed that it looks like it's still there, that should be enough.

Removing the whole thing and putting a straight thru pipe on could cause problems in the future.

If you doubt this advice, just ask Ben @ Shark, he knows more than most on this subject and this is his approach too.