I am fully aware that the Haldex system is a psuedo full time system in that during normal road and driving conditions some 96% of the engines traction is delivered to the front wheels and that it does not switch the 4X4 system off. The sensors detect any difference in speed between the front and rear axles and, via that Haldex clutch, can divert up to 90% of the torque to the rear axle.This is precisely why I mentioned Land Rover in particular, because they use a full time 4X4 system controlled by a software program using the ABS sensors to brake individual wheels and engine output, very similar to the Haldex controller fitted to the Yeti.

The vast majority of true 4X4 vehicles including all "Pick Up" types use a cheaper method whereby the normal mode is rear drive and the switch to all wheel drive is done electrically via a button as opposed to the older method which used a lever.I therefore suggested that theoretically Direct Line would apply the same logic to these vehicles as they have done to the original posters Yeti request.

Insurance company + logic = oxymoron.

I used the IAM Surity Insurance Company, they provided the best deal for me (and SHMBO who is not an IAM member!)

So did I last September when my renewal was due. Nobody else came close. For more details - www.iam.org.uk

Edited 2 May, 201115 yr by Paul007

So, does this in fact mean that Direct line will not cover any model of Land Rover, in fact any vehicle that has an electrically (Switch) operated 4x4 mode.

My Yeti is insured with Direct Line. It has had Cobra sidesteps fitted and they were fine about them. No hassle. They have also in the past insured me on a Defender 90 and a Toyota Hi-lux Surf SSRX (which is a Jap import with both manual and electronic 4wd selection), both of which were more than capable off road. As I remember the premiums were not outrageous either. £260 pa fully comp. for the Surf, which included motor legal protection and protected NCD.

Edited 2 May, 201115 yr by Bigfoot

+1 for both me and SWMBO - No other companies could get nearer their price. It is IAM Surety provided by Adelaide Insurance Services.

I haven't told them about any of my options on my car besides the Xenon's as these are most likely to be damaged in an accident.

To be fair they haven't asked and i really can't see why i should tell them....If i was to buy the car 2nd hand i wouldn't know what was and wasn't standard with how often Skoda change their options and offers.

A word of warning - ANY non-disclosure of ANY kind on a motor insurance Proposal form can invalidate the insurance. I work for an insurance company and i know how some of them work - and any excuse to not have to pay out on a claim and the Insurers will take it.

If a question on the Proposal form asks if the car has any modifications from standard (or similar wording) then its up to you to disclose them - you sign the declaration (either physically or electronically) to agree that you have told the whole truth on the proposal and it warns you there that any untruths can invalidate the insurance - Obivously the Insurers want your money so if you lie on the form and DONT have an accident then they dont care, BUT if you write your car off and they find out its not factory standard when the Policy Holder said it was, then you might find that, in these difficult times for Insurers, they'll use that as an reason not to pay out.

Depends on the Modifications, depends on the Insurers - but ive heard it many many times from our claims department the amount of claims thrown out through these incidents.

A word of warning - ANY non-disclosure of ANY kind on a motor insurance Proposal form can invalidate the insurance. I work for an insurance company and i know how some of them work - and any excuse to not have to pay out on a claim and the Insurers will take it.

If a question on the Proposal form asks if the car has any modifications from standard (or similar wording) then its up to you to disclose them - you sign the declaration (either physically or electronically) to agree that you have told the whole truth on the proposal and it warns you there that any untruths can invalidate the insurance - Obivously the Insurers want your money so if you lie on the form and DONT have an accident then they dont care, BUT if you write your car off and they find out its not factory standard when the Policy Holder said it was, then you might find that, in these difficult times for Insurers, they'll use that as an reason not to pay out.

Depends on the Modifications, depends on the Insurers - but ive heard it many many times from our claims department the amount of claims thrown out through these incidents.

Modification and options are different in my book. Mine is factory standard as it is how it is when it cam out of the factory.

Modifcation in my book is turning a Puma Thunder into a Ford Racing Puma hey spence? Is there any purpose for you on here but stalking? How about you go back to Megs forum or Pumapeople.... :moon:

A word of warning - ANY non-disclosure of ANY kind on a motor insurance Proposal form can invalidate the insurance. I work for an insurance company and i know how some of them work - and any excuse to not have to pay out on a claim and the Insurers will take it.

If a question on the Proposal form asks if the car has any modifications from standard (or similar wording) then its up to you to disclose them - you sign the declaration (either physically or electronically) to agree that you have told the whole truth on the proposal and it warns you there that any untruths can invalidate the insurance - Obivously the Insurers want your money so if you lie on the form and DONT have an accident then they dont care, BUT if you write your car off and they find out its not factory standard when the Policy Holder said it was, then you might find that, in these difficult times for Insurers, they'll use that as an reason not to pay out.

Depends on the Modifications, depends on the Insurers - but ive heard it many many times from our claims department the amount of claims thrown out through these incidents.

I am insured by DL and have an Elegance which has the Offroad button as standard. I have therefore provided full disclosure and they were perfectly happy to provide cover.

Makes no sense.

A word of warning - ANY non-disclosure of ANY kind on a motor insurance Proposal form can invalidate the insurance. I work for an insurance company and i know how some of them work - and any excuse to not have to pay out on a claim and the Insurers will take it.

If a question on the Proposal form asks if the car has any modifications from standard (or similar wording) then its up to you to disclose them - you sign the declaration (either physically or electronically) to agree that you have told the whole truth on the proposal and it warns you there that any untruths can invalidate the insurance - Obivously the Insurers want your money so if you lie on the form and DONT have an accident then they dont care, BUT if you write your car off and they find out its not factory standard when the Policy Holder said it was, then you might find that, in these difficult times for Insurers, they'll use that as an reason not to pay out.

Depends on the Modifications, depends on the Insurers - but ive heard it many many times from our claims department the amount of claims thrown out through these incidents.

So can you define the exactly what is a modification?

Especially in line with the various specifications available on the Yeti?

A word of warning - ANY non-disclosure of ANY kind on a motor insurance Proposal form can invalidate the insurance. I work for an insurance company and i know how some of them work - and any excuse to not have to pay out on a claim and the Insurers will take it.

If a question on the Proposal form asks if the car has any modifications from standard (or similar wording) then its up to you to disclose them - you sign the declaration (either physically or electronically) to agree that you have told the whole truth on the proposal and it warns you there that any untruths can invalidate the insurance - Obivously the Insurers want your money so if you lie on the form and DONT have an accident then they dont care, BUT if you write your car off and they find out its not factory standard when the Policy Holder said it was, then you might find that, in these difficult times for Insurers, they'll use that as an reason not to pay out.

Depends on the Modifications, depends on the Insurers - but ive heard it many many times from our claims department the amount of claims thrown out through these incidents.

So is a modification a factory fitted option? or a dealer fitted option? or a remap, new new oem wheels, or my vRS MFSW steering wheel?

My Yeti is insured with Direct Line. It has had Cobra sidesteps fitted and they were fine about them. No hassle. They have also in the past insured me on a Defender 90 and a Toyota Hi-lux Surf SSRX (which is a Jap import with both manual and electronic 4wd selection), both of which were more than capable off road. As I remember the premiums were not outrageous either. £260 pa fully comp. for the Surf, which included motor legal protection and protected NCD.

The main point of question here is, if you have an Elegance 4X4 model, the Off Road button is a standard fitment, if you have any other 4X4 model and have an Off Road button fitted as an option the insurance company is classing it as a modification. I know this is true because I went through a very lengthy, frustrating telephone conversation whilst trying to renew the cover on my wifes Mini Cooper D (which they had covered from new). They insisted that the factory fitted Chilli Pack was a non standard modification, even though I had purchased the car from a dealers stock.

In the end I told them to stick it where the sun dont shine and renewed with Saga for £260, aware of non-disclosure get outs I made a point of informing them of the Chilli Pack. They said that they were familiar with the factory fitted option packs offered by Mini and confirmed that they classed it as a standard factory fit option and not a modification.

Edited 4 May, 201115 yr by stanjackos

So is a modification a factory fitted option? or a dealer fitted option? or a remap, new new oem wheels, or my vRS MFSW steering wheel?

A modification is anything in addition to that on a standard version of that car. So say you have an Elegance model, the modifications are anything you added to that either from the Skoda options list (factory fitted) on top of the basic car.

I would strongly recommend you tell your insurer even if they were factory fitted options, as it changes the risk and cost in event of an accident or total loss and many will simply void your cover and NOT payout!

A modification is anything in addition to that on a standard version of that car. So say you have an Elegance model, the modifications are anything you added to that either from the Skoda options list (factory fitted) on top of the basic car.

I would strongly recommend you tell your insurer even if they were factory fitted options, as it changes the risk and cost in event of an accident or total loss and many will simply void your cover and NOT payout!

so...

Who has had a claim refused for not telling the insurance company you had something like:

heated seats

cruise control

sunroof

climate control

parking sensors.

It is just a money making scheme from the insurers. If I was buying my car second hand 3 years down the line, I like 99% of the population wouldn't know what was and wasn't standard and skoda UK probably wouldn't be able to tell you either....'well I think we did run an offer for 3weeks in 2010 an upgrade to heated seats and full leather but around that time there was a 6month waiting list so maybe, maybe not'. Basically unless you have the original order you Will have no idea what is an option on your car (if you aren't the first owner).

A modification is anything in addition to that on a standard version of that car. So say you have an Elegance model, the modifications are anything you added to that either from the Skoda options list (factory fitted) on top of the basic car.

I would strongly recommend you tell your insurer even if they were factory fitted options, as it changes the risk and cost in event of an accident or total loss and many will simply void your cover and NOT payout!

As a former motor insurance underwriter and claims handler, I do agree that all modifications should be disclosed to avoid any issues further down the line. However, the ABI and FOS would probably only support any decision to void a policy or decline a claim if the mods increased performance or altered the external appearance fairly radically, such as a full bodykit or expensive aftermarket alloys.

The decision by direct line to decline cover on a Yeti 4x4 because of the off road button is ludicrous. This says to me that neither the call handler or the supervisor/underwriter had sufficient knowledge of vehicles or insurance principles to make a properly informed decision. I would have kicked off big time and lodged a formal complaint.

I'm afraid this is all part and parcel of the call centre culture, no deviation from the script or common sense allowed. My advice would be to give one of the site's insurance sponsors a call, they do know what they are doing.

A modification is anything in addition to that on a standard version of that car. So say you have an Elegance model, the modifications are anything you added to that either from the Skoda options list (factory fitted) on top of the basic car.

I would strongly recommend you tell your insurer even if they were factory fitted options, as it changes the risk and cost in event of an accident or total loss and many will simply void your cover and NOT payout!

I think it is slightly different with brand new vehicles.....Skoda Insurance didn't want to know what options I had fitted, just the invoice price, which would show them what options are fitted. Might be different with other insurance companies though.

As a former motor insurance underwriter and claims handler, I do agree that all modifications should be disclosed to avoid any issues further down the line. However, the ABI and FOS would probably only support any decision to void a policy or decline a claim if the mods increased performance or altered the external appearance fairly radically, such as a full bodykit or expensive aftermarket alloys.

My point exactly

I told IAM about my Xenon's, they weren't bothered....Similar situation with my Winter wheels, they just said thanks for letting us know. Elephant wanted £5 for my xenon's as they put them down on the renewal as 'Rally lights' so again call centre incompetence. Is see it as they asked how much i paid for the car and they asked how much it was worth so therfore is insured for that much.

Look at it this way, if you have a bump....It goes to a body shop for a quote....They obtain the part numbers needed and put them on the quote. The claim handler isn't going to have a clue that my car's xenon's were an option. On the other hand if the crash was investigated by the police and excessive speed was involved they would check for a chip etc.....similarly if you had your wheels nicked and they were 19inch BBS's or something, this is obviously an increased risk for them so should cost more to insure.

Edited 4 May, 201115 yr by jrw

My point exactly

Look at it this way, if you have a bump....It goes to a body shop for a quote....They obtain the part numbers needed and put them on the quote. The claim handler isn't going to have a clue that my car's xenon's were an option. On the other hand if the crash was investigated by the police and excessive speed was involved they would check for a chip etc.....similarly if you had your wheels nicked and they were 19inch BBS's or something, this is obviously an increased risk for them so should cost more to insure.

The claims handler won't know what's standard, but the inspecting engineer will! That's how we found out about most undisclosed mods, along with those that didn't declare them when arranging the policy, but then couldn't wait to tell us when they made a claim...

The claims handler won't know what's standard, but the inspecting engineer will! That's how we found out about most undisclosed mods, along with those that didn't declare them when arranging the policy, but then couldn't wait to tell us when they made a claim...

I am talking about options not modifications. I doubt they know every make, model and trim level of standard fit features. Especially when manufacturers change things every couple of months. Cruise standard, then an option then standard, non of which is related to the reg of your car but in fact the order date which can be anything from a few weeks to a year from order to registration.

Just for information purposes

"What do Insurance Companies class as a Modification?"

99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth nothing that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.

It is totally at your own risk what you 'do' or 'do not' disclose to the insurers at proposal stage. And it is true, some 'optional extras' may get through the insurance claims inspectors rigorous examination - But you just have to ask yourself, is it worth keeping quiet at proposal stage just to save a couple of quid when it could cost you the value of your car?

My advice is "If in doubt, tell the insurers" - at least then if you do have a write of claim, you wont be worrying sick about the possibility of the insurers throwing your claim out.

Edited 7 May, 201115 yr by spenspuma

Just for information purposes

"What do Insurance Companies class as a Modification?"

99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth nothing that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.[/i

After manufacture so options aren't a mod. Which is what I've said all along.

After manufacture so options aren't a mod. Which is what I've said all along.

I think you might need to read the second sentence of that quotation you published again - that doesn't mention 'after manufacture'. The point here, surely, is that the insurance companies are illogical and erratic. Policies vary betwen different companies for sure, but actually even with the same company different individual employees will interpret the rules differently. There is no hard and fast 'truth' in the debate of the past few pages, other than if they've got an excuse for not paying your claim, they'll probably use it. :'(

Just for information purposes

"What do Insurance Companies class as a Modification?"

99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth nothing that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.

It is totally at your own risk what you 'do' or 'do not' disclose to the insurers at proposal stage. And it is true, some 'optional extras' may get through the insurance claims inspectors rigorous examination - But you just have to ask yourself, is it worth keeping quiet at proposal stage just to save a couple of quid when it could cost you the value of your car?

My advice is "If in doubt, tell the insurers" - at least then if you do have a write of claim, you wont be worrying sick about the possibility of the insurers throwing your claim out.

Can you please give some attribution for this quote? Source, etc. I am unable to find one.

Until then it should be ignored.

Edited 7 May, 201115 yr by Llanigraham

I think you might need to read the second sentence of that quotation you published again - that doesn't mention 'after manufacture'. The point here, surely, is that the insurance companies are illogical and erratic. Policies vary betwen different companies for sure, but actually even with the same company different individual employees will interpret the rules differently. There is no hard and fast 'truth' in the debate of the past few pages, other than if they've got an excuse for not paying your claim, they'll probably use it. :'(

I was more pointing out that it is a contradiction and there are no hard or fast rules for them. As I have said i would like to hear from somebody who has had a claim refused because of a non-disclosed FACTORY fitted option.

BBC: Insurers warn on car Modifications

Can you please give some attribution for this quote? Source, etc. I am unable to find one.

Until then it should be ignored.

Source

There is no contradition in the quote. Most insurers count any change after manufacturing as a modification (note this could include dealer fit accessories). In addition some insurers treat factory fit options as modifications. The issue is that insurers are not consistent, and so the only safe approach is to declare all changes from standard that you are aware of or to carefully check you own insurers definitions.

Edited 8 May, 201115 yr by testme27

Source

There is no contradition in the quote. Most insurers count any change after manufacturing as a modification (note this could include dealer fit accessories). In addition some insurers treat factory fit options as modifications. The issue is that insurers are not consistent, and so the only safe approach is to declare all changes from standard that you are aware of or to carefully check you own insurers definitions.

Id listen to this guy

But some people think they know better, so its up to individual if they think its worth the risk by non-disclosing. If youve got a £2,000 car then yeah it may well be - if youve got a £15,000 one then why take the risk?

What no-one has yet been able to provide is PROOF of what is the definition of a modification, which is the whole point to this thread.

I buy a brand new car from Skoda.

Because it is the top-of-the-range model it has lots of "bits" fitted to it on the production line.

All have been subject to type approval.

Some are not even physical entities, but electrical.

So the last 3 writers are implying that the owner must list every single item listed in the brochure, over and above the base spec model. Utter rubbish!! It would not stand up in Court because it would be termed an "unfair terms and conditions" simply because in the majority of cases it would be almost impossible to do. (And I bet none of them have done that, either!!)

Yes if I fit additional lights ot different wheels then I will agree those have to be divulged. One of the reasons the Police in my area have so much fun with the "boy racer" Corsa's and Clio's.

They only thing I have told my insurance company about is the tow bar. That is all they wanted to know about. Everything else is STANDARD SPEC!!