Anyone know much about this? It was mentioned at the last Maidstone meet and i googled it when I got back. Apparently, great engine though it it, it is regarded as too complex and costly and VW reckon they can get the same power now with just turbocharging.

It would be a shame if true especially since VW have recently launched three cars with this engine and I think it is a bit much really when people are buying this engine and enjoying it. A case of bean counters over egineers though i'd worry about potential long term costs tbh.

I think there has been talk about this for a while now, not sure if it is official or not.

A rumour I heard was they were going to do a 1.6 turbo instead.

It would be a shame, because especially with a supercharger bottom end, you have power all the way through the rev range, where a 1.6 turbo would have considerable lag.

It's an engine that been around for a few years now and doesn't make sense to drop it since it's proven to be reliable. It's a definate selling point because it (the only?) engine with turbo and supercharging. I have heard talk of going to a 4cyl 1.6 turbo engine to have a World engine since rallying is now 1.6 turbo and F1 is going that way too. Lag will definitely be a problem if it's just a turbo

Turbo technology has really advanced in the last few years and with direct injection and pretty high compression ratio's the turbo only tsi's are pulling maximum torque by 1500rpm and lag really isn't an issue.

The 1.4 Twin Charge unit fitted a bigger turbo with lower compression to get the high power which left a bit of a torque issue at low revs which was filled in with a supercharger.

The 270bhp 2.0TFSi is turbo only and it doesn't suffer from excessive lag and a 180-200bhp 1.6TFSi is perfectly doable and probably cheaper to do than the 1.4 twin charge engine.

VW will enter a full World Rally Program in 2013 under the new WRC specifications that run a 300bhp 1.6 Turbo Petrol Engine. VW have already stated they will be doing a Polo "R" with 1.6 Turbo Petrol so you could bet on 200bhp+

VW's mainstream competitors Ford and Vauxhall also have 1.6 Turbo Petrols that are as powerfull as the 1.8TSi and more efficient so I'd expect to see a new 1.6TFSi with a number of power outputs.

Cheers

Lee

What does TSI stand for then? I thought the T was Turbocharged, S Supercharged and I ... no clue :p

Injection normally

What does TSI stand for then? I thought the T was Turbocharged, S Supercharged and I ... no clue :p

Probably something German for Turbo, Direct Injection. VAG non turbo direct injection petrols are known as FSI's and the turbo ones TFSI. Skoda dropped the F.

Cheers

Lee

I think that the 1.6 makes sense especially with the F1 etc planning to move to 1.6 turbos I don't think lag will be an issue at all certainly isn't with the 1.2 tsi even just below where the turbo spools up. I think TSI now stands for Turbo Stratified Injection and is any petrol engine in the group which is turbo'd or supercharged. Trying to do the same for petrol as TDI tag did for diesel?

Edited 8 May, 201115 yr by Fabia00

I heard slightly different - they were to put a 1.4 Turbo to replace the 1.4 Twincharger and a 1.6 Turbo to replace the 2.0 Turbo in the Golf GTI etc.

I heard slightly different - they were to put a 1.4 Turbo to replace the 1.4 Twincharger and a 1.6 Turbo to replace the 2.0 Turbo in the Golf GTI etc.

a 1.6 turbo to replace a 2.0 turbo... ? lol

How long should the turbo's last in the TSI engines I wonder before they need replacing

Anyone know much about this? It was mentioned at the last Maidstone meet and i googled it when I got back. Apparently, great engine though it it, it is regarded as too complex and costly and VW reckon they can get the same power now with just turbocharging.

It would be a shame if true especially since VW have recently launched three cars with this engine and I think it is a bit much really when people are buying this engine and enjoying it. A case of bean counters over egineers though i'd worry about potential long term costs tbh.

Hi Matt, Sadly I think it is true. I don't own one but I have driven a couple of them now and can see why you guys like them. You've prolly seen this link but here it is anyway...

Demise of 1.4TSI...

Logiclee is correct though regarding new turbocharging technology. It largely makes superchargers redundant so this is a natural progression if it goes ahead. The bonus will be a better performing engine...not a worse performance. The engines can also be much lighter, will have further reliability gains and will be less expensive to service and maintain as they get older. In another article I have been reading about this very thing, VW reckon the new engine to replace the 1.4TSI will still be a 1.4 petrol unit and will produce 195bhp with more torque across the scale. Guess we need to wait and see. If it won't fit easily into a motorcycle, I'm not that interested!!!

The TSI stands for Twincharged Stratified Injection, the FSI is Fuel Stratified Injection, but the nomenclature is not consistent so the TSI is also used in non twincharged but only turbocharged engines.

Audi remained consistent with the names and acronyms and they still use TFSI meaning Turbo Fuel Stratified Injection and that is also because they do not have twincharged VW engines in their offer, this is applied to small displacement engines, not sure about the bigger ones. Audi has 1.2TFSI 86 bhp in A1, 105 bhp in A3, 2.0TFSI which is also just turbocharged, and 1.4TFSI with 122bhp which is only turbo. Cheers.

Edited 8 May, 201115 yr by Uro? TSI

I think that the 1.6 makes sense especially with the F1 etc planning to move to 1.6 turbos

Yep I'd forgot about that, the FIA's top two championships F1 and the WRC will both be on 1.6 Turbo's soon so manufacturers will certainly use that in marketing.

VAG have already stated they will be doing a 1.6 Turbo for the Polo R so it will no doubt filter through the rest of the group.

Vauxhall have special editions of their 1.6 Turbo petrol putting out over 200bhp and it doesn't suffer lag, I've tried it in the Corsa VXR and it's a awesome engine.

I could see something like this taking over from the 200PS 2.0TFSi with the 2.0TFSi continuing with 240 and 270bhp.

Cheers

Lee

I mentioned it a few months ago:

http://briskoda.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=189750&view=findpost&p=2268126

I just chatted with somebody today and thought 'poop' better get back on the forums and update!'

Taiwan does alot of OEM stuff for manufactrers, mostly computer/ecu, bodywork, brakes and turbo parts.

A friend of mine just mentioned that the 1.4 twin charge is being **** canned and replaced with a 1.6 using a smaller version of the 911 turbo variable geometry turbo to aid low rpm spooling and reduce turbo lag.

And as you just said, its mostly to tie in with the new WRC size and also F1, seems VW is going racing soon and want to sell cars on the back of it.

Sounds good to me!.

Sorry for being an arse earlier, at the time it didnt make sense!.

Since then i know for a fact this is happening, i know the owner of a large OEM turbo factory, they build for KKK, Garret and other OEM's.

This special little mini 911 turbo is being mass produced and bought by the VAG group for a 1.6 engine.

Next time im out for a beer i will press for more info, but usually he cant go into specifics for contractual reasons.

Edited 8 May, 201115 yr by pending-change

Bye bye 1.4 Tsi engine then! Wow skoda just got it , things mOve so quickly although this change may take some time for skoda to get the 1.6 turbo engine we seem to be the last on the list of priorities

Variable Geometry, really? That's very intresting.

Variable Geometry turbos transformed turbo diesels from laggy units with no pull under 2000rpm and not much top end power into the units we have today

Turbo petrols run much higher exhaust temps which meant concentrating the exhaust output on the very edges of the blades to increase spool up resulted in melted turbos.

Porsche got around the problem by building extremely advanced composite ceramic turbo's to withstand having the heat from a high output petrol engine directed variably on the turbo blades. And that technology has only been available on the latest 911 Turbo. It has 457lbft available from 1900-5000rpm and over 500lbft on overboost. 75% of that torque is available from 1400-6000rpm

If the technology has now advanced to the point where small mass produced variable geometry petrol turbos are available then this is going to really advance the torque curve and power outputs of small petrol turbos.

No wonder VAG will drop the supercharger, a 1.6 with variable geometry turbo is going to build shed loads of torque at just above tickover while still flowing enough air for a really impressive power output.

Cheers

Lee

Edited 8 May, 201115 yr by logiclee

Variable Geometry, really? That's very intresting.

Variable Geometry turbos transformed turbo diesels from laggy units with no pull under 2000rpm and not much top end power into the units we have today

Turbo petrols run much higher exhaust temps which meant concentrating the exhaust output on the very edges of the blades to increase spool up resulted in melted turbos.

Porsche got around the problem by building extremely advanced composite ceramic turbo's to withstand having the heat from a high output petrol engine directed variably on the turbo blades. And that technology has only been available on the latest 911 Turbo. It has 457lbft available from 1900-5000rpm and over 500lbft on overboost. 75% of that torque is available from 1400-6000rpm

If the technology has now advanced to the point where small mass produced variable geometry petrol turbos are available then this is going to really advance the torque curve and power outputs of small petrol turbos.

No wonder VAG will drop the supercharger, a 1.6 with variable geometry turbo is going to build shed loads of torque at just above tickover while still flowing enough air for a really impressive power output.

Cheers

Lee

It actually makes alot of sense, i have been moaning about it for a few years now.

I guess when the FIA started pushing the 1.6 engine size VAG group decided to better everybody else with existing technology from the 911.

VW cars always are king when it comes to torque and low rpm power making them a pleasure to drive, this will enable them to give the edge on the competition whom have aleady got high power 1.6's

Im really excited, fingers crossed it happens soon.

I have a feeling though that this may be the swan song of the high output turbo engine, emissions is getting more and more insane and we will end up driving electric hybrids of some kind :(

we will end up driving electric hybrids of some kind :(

Oh no we won't. Milk floats are not for me.

Tony

Oh no we won't. Milk floats are not for me.

Tony

When fuel is £10 a litre and Euro 12 emmissions state maximum CO2 25g/km. I don't think we'll have much choice.

Just hope buy then there is a true alternative and we are not all limited to a Prius.

Until then lets enjoy the ever increasing turbo technology.

By the way a workmate has a Prius and does a similar run to work as me and my 2.0CR TDi DSG Passat uses less fuel.

Cheers

Lee

I read vw are going to replace the HTP with a NEW 3POT TSI in 2012 and not make the 1.212v

I read vw are going to replace the HTP with a NEW 3POT TSI in 2012 and not make the 1.212v

That would be a 900cc Turbo then.

Cheers

Lee

Similar to the old Suzuki Cappuccino?

At least it's one more cylinder than the 900cc Fiat twin air.

Cheers

Lee

Hopefully it will be more economical than the twinair too lol. Disagree with the guy saying he thinks high output turbos are at the end. Look at fiat's new multiair 1.4 170 Bhp with just a turbo: low Co2 with stop start and a fantastic engine. Drove one at Allams when I tested the VRS. It pulls from really low revs and goes like stink: so future is bright there I think! That was in an Alfa Guilietta though: a £21k car :(

There was a Guilettta in the carpark in work this morning. Nice looking car but when a GTI/Octavia isn't far off the same money it's a shame. Looked nice in white but black would be better for it.