Ok, I know that there is a very helpful winter tyre sticky, but I just wanted some opinions (hopefully backed by facts/science!) on the advantages of getting 16" winter tyres on new steel rims, compared to sticking winter tyres on my normal 18" alloys.

Yes, I know a big factor is that 16" tyres are a lot cheaper and there is more choice in winter tyres in that size compared to 18" ones (that for me would also need to be 225/40), although the cost of new steels offsets that (initially at least). But what is the science on which size performs better? I've heard people say that 16" are better, possibly because they would not be low profile. But then my thinking is that all the vehicles designed to be good in snow have large wheels anyway, and that surely it is the tread that is the key factor here and not the wheel size as such? Also, as my current wide 225/40's have a lot of tread on the road compared to a smaller, narrower tyre (ie a standard size 16"), then surely they would provide more grip in ice etc using identical winter tyres (I'm looking at the Avon Ice Tourer ST) than the same brand of tyre on a smaller 16" wheel would?

The general consensus is that narrower tyres are better at cutting through snow than wider tyres.

Dropping down to 16" will obviously give you a bigger sidewall as well. I'd much rather catch my tyre on something than buckle a wheel...

I'll be running 205/55/16 Winter Rubber on my Octty PD TDi Vrs this year, So will the Wife's Vrs (Fabia MKII) 205/45/16

Yes it is tread, a winter tyre has a more aggresive tread pattern, though even that relies on the tyre flexing to aid the tread clearing. This is a lot more effective on the 16" tyres with a higher sidewall as there is a lot more rubber available to flex and move the tread blocks around. Also, like softscoop says, a narrower tyre would be better as it will cut down through the snow better and provide more grip, a wider tyre is more likely to "float" on the surface of the trickey conditions and not give as much grip. Your thinking about vehicles designed for snow are also designed for off road driving so the bigger wheels and tyres are needed as much for ground clearance under the axles as for traction. Anyway those tyres fitted to the big wheels are more than likely to not be very low profile to assist with the tread clearing.

True it will cost more initially to get a set of steel wheels for your winter tyres but how much would it cost to get the tyres on your 18" rims changed twice a year? The tyre fitters would also charge you for a new valve on each tyre and balancing as a matter of course. Besides, why do the steel wheels have to be new? I think that a second hand set of steel wheels with some decent 16" winter tyres will be your best long term bet.

Ian.

...although the cost of new steels offsets that (initially at least)...

You do seem to be hung up on this idea somewhat, as I and others mentioned in the previous thread (http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/207181-vrs-tyre-sizes/page__view__findpost__p__2457569), you can pick up a set of used 16" compatible VAG alloys for relatively peanuts.

I have the Avon Ice Touring ST's on mine sitting on 16inch alloys. They are 205/55/16s. Taller sidewall to give more flex, and narrower tyre to dig into the ice. If you look at Rally cars they put tiny wheels on so large wheels aren't really any good.

Also you have the cost of swapping tyres over and the risk of damaging your alloys if you happen to skid into a kerb or have them corroded by the salt.

The Rubber compound is also different, a more "Sticky" rubber, heats up quicker. Likes the cold and is still able to flex at a very low tempreture

You do seem to be hung up on this idea somewhat, as I and others mentioned in the previous thread (http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/207181-vrs-tyre-sizes/page__view__findpost__p__2457569), you can pick up a set of used 16" compatible VAG alloys for relatively peanuts.

Agreed, I got a set of Audi A4 16" wheels with very good summer tyres fitted for £135 delivered.

You do seem to be hung up on this idea somewhat, as I and others mentioned in the previous thread (http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/207181-vrs-tyre-sizes/page__view__findpost__p__2457569), you can pick up a set of used 16" compatible VAG alloys for relatively peanuts.

I'm not hung up on it, just unsure (and there is a difference!). For a start, I'm not really one for car maintainance much above replacing bulbs and topping up oil. So if I had a set of 16" steels complete with winter tyres I would still want a garage to swap them around for me rather than get the jack out and do it myself (as I wouldn't trust myself to do it properly), and that being the case there is still a cost involved in the swapping at the beginning and end of the winter season that may not be much less than the £15 odd per corner it costs to swap 18" tyres but leave the rims in place.

Next, the parts numbers of the 16" confuse me. It's all very well saying get 2nd hand from ebay but I wouldn't be sure I was getting the right size/fitments if I did (hence thinking of getting new steels from the dealer because at least I would know they would be the right ones). But out of interest, I notice that my 'space save' spare tyre in the boot is a 16" on a steel rim (tyre size 205/55), so would the 16" rims for standard winter tyres be the same size (so effectively I would have 5 steels all the same), or is the 'space saver' a different size again?

As for the opther arguments that a 16" tyre can 'cut' through snow better I'm not necessarily convinced - having ridden on two wheels in icy conditions my experience was the fatter the tyre and the more rubber on the road the better!

I have the Avon Ice Touring ST's on mine sitting on 16inch alloys. They are 205/55/16s. Taller sidewall to give more flex, and narrower tyre to dig into the ice. If you look at Rally cars they put tiny wheels on so large wheels aren't really any good.

Also you have the cost of swapping tyres over and the risk of damaging your alloys if you happen to skid into a kerb or have them corroded by the salt.

What are the Avon's like??

What are the Avon's like??

They're great, had no problems. Overtook a 4x4 on a hill the one morning with great pleasure!

As for the opther arguments that a 16" tyre can 'cut' through snow better I'm not necessarily convinced - having ridden on two wheels in icy conditions my experience was the fatter the tyre and the more rubber on the road the better!

You may not be convinced but every rally team and the huge budgets they have to research this seem convinced that thin tyres woek best in snow/ice!!!!!!!

Edited 27 July, 201114 yr by PSM

You may not be convinced but every rally team and the huge budgets they have to research this seem convinced that thin tyres woek best in snow/ice!!!!!!!

exactly! Why are ice skates blades!?

I have the Avon Ice Touring ST's on mine sitting on 16inch alloys. They are 205/55/16s. Taller sidewall to give more flex, and narrower tyre to dig into the ice. If you look at Rally cars they put tiny wheels on so large wheels aren't really any good.

Also you have the cost of swapping tyres over and the risk of damaging your alloys if you happen to skid into a kerb or have them corroded by the salt.

Are the avons xl as I thought this was required for the vrs.

Are the avons xl as I thought this was required for the vrs.

I think so - I bought them off Nick P on here so i would imagine so. Will have to check now!

In winter there are loads more pot holes, your car may slide into a curb etc. The extra sidewall and the design of the tyre protects it from the shock of it hitting it. The 18" tyre will have less sidewall and although built for winter it can't absorb as much abuse as a 16". You say it'll cost around £15 per corner to swap your tyres = £120x2. £240 a year. Most garages will swap your wheels for around £10-£15 for all of them which is a big saving. With the extra cost of 18" winter tyres vs the much cheaper cost of 16" tyres it'll be alot cheaper in the long run to get a set of 16" winter wheels and tyres.

As you're confused about what wheels to buy, when you see a set on the internet post a link on here and ask if they are the right ones, there are alot of members that can help you choose and put your mind at rest.

Try This:-

http://www.alloywhee....asp?Make=Skoda

Everyone seems to be getting caught up in narrow tyres cutting through snow better which is of course the case, but to be honest has little relevance for the majority of a British winter.

Most of the time your winter tyre will be driving on cold damp Tarmac where (as the original poster alludes to) a wider tyre will give you more contact with the road and therefore more grip.

Having said that, smaller wheels are definitely a better idea for the winter for the reasons that people have mentioned above such as greater sidewall compliance and not least, cost.

If you search for tyres in 205/55/16 and then look for the same tyre in a 225/40/18 you'll find a difference of about £50 per tyre. That £200 could easily pay for a set of steel wheels from eBay or the local paper.

If you're not confident of changing wheels yourself then it will still be cheaper to get four wheels changed than getting the wheels removed and tyres swapped over.

On the point about not knowing what wheels to buy if looking second hand then it's not as complicated as some on here would have you believe.

You don't need to go for 6J wheels unless you plan to fit snow chains which I'd say means 99.99% of people.

Standard 6.5Jx16 will be perfect, and yes, this is the same as your standard 'space saver' wheel.

When looking for wheels you just need to make sure they are 5x112 PCD and around ET50 (offset).

Look for anything from a mkV Golf, mk2 Leon or 2004 on A3 (as well as the mk2 Octavia obviously) and it will be guaranteed to fit.

If you see a set advertised and you're in any doubt, post up here and someone will tell you if they will fit or not.

Lastly, whatever option you chose, winter tyres are definitely a sensible addition.

Last year was my first on winter tyres on my BMW and I could go places most people couldn't when it was snowing. That was on 17in wheels as anything smaller won't fit over the brakes.

When the Octavia was delivered I knew I wanted some winter wheels for it and I was lucky enough to source some 17in Audi alloys complete with winter tyres. I'm vain so it had to be 17in alloys rather than 16in steels, but I know they will still provide far more grip than the standard summer 18s.

Most of the time your winter tyre will be driving on cold damp Tarmac where (as the original poster alludes to) a wider tyre will give you more contact with the road and therefore more grip.

Contact area is to do with tyre pressure and the weight of the car. Wider tyres will give you a wider contact area over a smaller segment of the wheel but the overall area will be the same (assuming that the pressures are the same. Wider tyres do mean that they will warm up slower (which in winter is probably a bad thing).

If you are looking for second hand alloy wheels then you might find list of VW & Audi wheels useful.

Spent last year deliberating the same issue after almost getting caught out by worse than expected snow conditions.

Tried my mates set of 16" winter wheels/tyres from his wifes golf and found they ruined the dry weather handling of the car. Most of the winter is spent in normal road conditions even up here in the North of Scotland so didn't want to compromise the car.

Picked up a set of nearly new winter tyres on Ebay and swapped them onto my Neptunes for the end of last winter. They weren't the best of brands but do ok in the dry, much better than 16" tyres. Makes a huge difference to the cars abilities in the ice and snow though. Drove across a country road in near sheet ice conditions easily. Do still have a wee bit of a problem initially pulling away on steep slopes, but have never got stuck. The thing I was most impressed with the winter tyres was how well they react to just generally cold temperatures in winter night driving.

Was glad to get back onto my Vredestein Sessantas when the temperature increased in the spring though and now have a 2nd hand set of 18" rims to stick the winters onto in November once the cold weather comes back. Saves on the £50 twice a year to swap tyres over and have the value of the wheels to sell when I change cars.

Spent last year deliberating the same issue after almost getting caught out by worse than expected snow conditions.

Tried my mates set of 16" winter wheels/tyres from his wifes golf and found they ruined the dry weather handling of the car. Most of the winter is spent in normal road conditions even up here in the North of Scotland so didn't want to compromise the car.

Picked up a set of nearly new winter tyres on Ebay and swapped them onto my Neptunes for the end of last winter. They weren't the best of brands but do ok in the dry, much better than 16" tyres. Makes a huge difference to the cars abilities in the ice and snow though. Drove across a country road in near sheet ice conditions easily. Do still have a wee bit of a problem initially pulling away on steep slopes, but have never got stuck. The thing I was most impressed with the winter tyres was how well they react to just generally cold temperatures in winter night driving.

Was glad to get back onto my Vredestein Sessantas when the temperature increased in the spring though and now have a 2nd hand set of 18" rims to stick the winters onto in November once the cold weather comes back. Saves on the £50 twice a year to swap tyres over and have the value of the wheels to sell when I change cars.

Can;t say i noticed that much difference going to 16's besides a less harsh ride and slightly less dry weather grip....but that is down to the compound compared to my Conti Sport Contact 3's.