Front suspension Alloy bottom arms

[leedavenport]

Please can you let me know what the advantages are of the alloy R32 bottom arms when fitted to the front suspension of a MK1 octy VRS?

is it a strength thing? is it less flex? are they lighter and will i notice a difference by fitting them assuming that i change nothing else?

does anyone have experience of these?

Thanks

[Bowders1]

Yes I have them fitted including TT Hubs.

They are cast alloy and slightly longer dimension than the VRS ones. Also the way the Hub/bottom ball joints fit to these arms make the wishbone sit at a more horizontal level. On the VRS arms as you start lowering the car the arms start to get a negative angle that causes wheel hop or jumpy /choppy suspension to road balance. Even with the suspension lowered the cast wishbones are sitting horizontal. These arms also allow for more camber /castor set up when used with TT hubs and adjustable castor bushes of which i have got also. The difference in turn in and general suspension stability is like night and day(how the car should of been in the first place). Add to this mix a R32 FARB and quick rack(2.5 turns as apposed to 3.4 turns) and then you really have a great front suspension set up. My mate who has a std VRS drove mine and when he went to turn over egged it due to not realising the difference and nearly drove up the curb.

he was amazed at the difference.

few pics of mine

Cast Wishbones with castor adjuster bushes

fitted wishbones

You can see the near horizontal wishbone (and my car is very low)

You can also see the much longer distance the lower ball joint is located on the bottom of the TT hub( i think the TT HUB is a must as well to get best out of the conversion)

[vRStroy]

Wow...that's knowledge.

What a comprehensive reply and with photos as well

[snow_muncher]

A well covered mod

The castor correcting bushes can cancel out the understeer

Not just for FWD cars.

Easier/cheaper mod on 4x4's as hubs don't need to changed.

briskoda.net/forums/topic/167520-r32-tt-cast-wishbones/

briskoda.net/forums/topic/203782-suspension-tweeks/

The 2.5 'quick rack' cannot be used on cars with ESP fitted (FWD or 4x4 - conflict between steering angle sensors and rack).

[Babs]

So, just to confirm... you can fit the TT wishbones, bushes and hubs to an otherwise standard Octavia - i.e. you don't need the rack aswell?

[leedavenport]

Yes I have them fitted including TT Hubs.

They are cast alloy and slightly longer dimension than the VRS ones. Also the way the Hub/bottom ball joints fit to these arms make the wishbone sit at a more horizontal level. On the VRS arms as you start lowering the car the arms start to get a negative angle that causes wheel hop or jumpy /choppy suspension to road balance. Even with the suspension lowered the cast wishbones are sitting horizontal. These arms also allow for more camber /castor set up when used with TT hubs and adjustable castor bushes of which i have got also. The difference in turn in and general suspension stability is like night and day(how the car should of been in the first place). Add to this mix a R32 FARB and quick rack(2.5 turns as apposed to 3.4 turns) and then you really have a great front suspension set up. My mate who has a std VRS drove mine and when he went to turn over egged it due to not realising the difference and nearly drove up the curb.

he was amazed at the difference.

few pics of mine

Cast Wishbones with castor adjuster bushes

fitted wishbones

You can see the near horizontal wishbone (and my car is very low)

You can also see the much longer distance the lower ball joint is located on the bottom of the TT hub( i think the TT HUB is a must as well to get best out of the conversion)

Many thanks for the respose - brings me on to another question - TT hubs do they need to be off a particular model or from a particular age of TT to fit? are they just a straight bolt on part and finally what would be a rough ball park figure for a pair if TT front hubs suitable to be fitted to the mk1 octy vrs?

With such a big change at the front of the car is it then fundamental to upgrade the rear or is a thicker ARB all that the rear needs.

Thanks again for all the info - helps me get a grip on what is neede and what difference it all makes

[chicken_eyebrow]

The one thing that tends to deteriorate on the rear and is definately worth replacing are the rear beam bushes (cylinder shaped bushes in the round ends of the rear beam)

Otherwise not much needs doing to the rear, just a thick rear anti-rollbar

Eurocarparts do the Audi wishbones and ball joints, ball joints are £30 each (this search was done with a 2002 TT coupe as the model)

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Audi_TT+Coupe_1.8_2002/p/car-parts/suspension-and-steering/suspension/suspension-arm-and-suspension-joints/?617440560&1&d1973a5d609d9f414f01ab2a9bcb85ac6fc79d73&000019

Don't know if these are OEM ones and whether or not the quality is any good though.

[billy2981]

You need either the LCR hubs or FWD TT.

if you get the S3/TT 225/R32 front hubs they use different drive shafts that use a bolt to secure them not a nut like the vRS.

if you look through my threads I posted the comparrisons. Back when all the TT hub thing kicked off. iirc its this time last year when I did mine.

I just got the hubs re pressed with new bearings and the hub flanges from my original Hubs lol.

You are prob looking at £100 for both hubs, about the same for the wishbones, you will also need to either swap the tie rod ends over or get the TT tie rods and tie ends(tie rods are thicker on the TT/LCR/R32/S3) and the tie rod ends point up not down like the vRS

you dont need to get the Rack, if you do you might want to uprate the PAS pump too as if not the steering is a fair bit heavier(I like it but it can get a bit hard to drive when tired after a 15hr night shift on the long drive home lol)

agree with Mark on this too, its how the car should of been! makes it soo much better. I find myself trying to turn the Fabia like I do the Octavia only to soil myself with the role and understeer lol.

[Babs]

Cheers, Billy

[leedavenport]

You need either the LCR hubs or FWD TT.

if you get the S3/TT 225/R32 front hubs they use different drive shafts that use a bolt to secure them not a nut like the vRS.

if you look through my threads I posted the comparrisons. Back when all the TT hub thing kicked off. iirc its this time last year when I did mine.

I just got the hubs re pressed with new bearings and the hub flanges from my original Hubs lol.

You are prob looking at £100 for both hubs, about the same for the wishbones, you will also need to either swap the tie rod ends over or get the TT tie rods and tie ends(tie rods are thicker on the TT/LCR/R32/S3) and the tie rod ends point up not down like the vRS

you dont need to get the Rack, if you do you might want to uprate the PAS pump too as if not the steering is a fair bit heavier(I like it but it can get a bit hard to drive when tired after a 15hr night shift on the long drive home lol)

agree with Mark on this too, its how the car should of been! makes it soo much better. I find myself trying to turn the Fabia like I do the Octavia only to soil myself with the role and understeer lol.

billy you would not know the part numbers for the hubs would you? just do not want to go and get the wrong ones

many thanks

[leedavenport]

are LCR 225 bottom arms the alloy type as discussed above? i was just thinking i might be able to get arms hubs and ball joints all at once and posted together to save on shipping

[Oet]

lcr 210 or 225 and tt arms are all the same, ideally you want the front end off a fwd tt as they have the right hubs/flanges and the cast arms.

More tts out there than there are lcrs!

[leedavenport]

lcr 210 or 225 and tt arms are all the same, ideally you want the front end off a fwd tt as they have the right hubs/flanges and the cast arms.

More tts out there than there are lcrs!

ta mate, will hit ebay later and see what i turn up. i guess i need a 1.8t 180bhp tt fwd set up in its entirety then? that way it should all just bolt on hopefully

cheers

[Oet]

no probs

either that or lcr hubs and wishbones, to be fair there are a lot more 4x4 tts than fwd ones, so you might have to source parts from different places.

Cant remember if the fwd was 150 or 180, got a feeling it was 150 so it may not have the thicker 23mm front arb either or the quickrack as the 225s were the ones that had the quickrack iirc

If i were you i would get on mk4.net and the other forums and get hunting, at the right time the cast wishbones can be had for under 100 a pair often with bushes, dont be a mug and pay over the odds cause some trader on ebay is asking for £150 as side plus.

[chicken_eyebrow]

180 TT's were all FWD ones, you got the Quattro on the 210/225 1.8T and the 3.2 V6.

My quick rack was off a 225 1.8T so I guess the 180s might have the same rack as the VRS.

[richm]

A few points to clarify that aren't obvious until you come to fit everything together and get it working..

The advantageous angle of the bottom arms with lowered cars is due to the hubs not the arms - the TT hubs mount the bottom ball joint much lower than standard hubs (look at the large gap between the driveshaft boot and ball joint mount on the pictures above, compared to standard hub)

TT/LCR hubs have to be used with the cast arms as the ball joints are different and have bigger pins that won't fit a standard hub

Not all 4wd TT's have bolts retaining the driveshafts - I have seen early 225 Quattro's with nuts on the driveshafts.

Edited 20 January, 2012 by richm

[missingmyvrs]

That's funny I've had a car with lcr cast arms with standard hubs with no problems ;-) so have others

I now run the full monty ;-)

This isn't a new mod ;-)

[leedavenport]

A few points to clarify that aren't obvious until you come to fit everything together and get it working..

The advantageous angle of the bottom arms with lowered cars is due to the hubs not the arms - the TT hubs mount the bottom ball joint much lower than standard hubs (look at the large gap between the driveshaft boot and ball joint mount on the pictures above, compared to standard hub)

TT/LCR hubs have to be used with the cast arms as the ball joints are different and have bigger pins that won't fit a standard hub

Not all 4wd TT's have bolts retaining the driveshafts - I have seen early 225 Quattro's with nuts on the driveshafts.

i have someone who will do me 2 alloy bottom arms and both front hubs off an LCR for £130 + post. will these be a straight bolt on so long as i ger some LCR ball joints?

i was thinking £130 for these parts seems ok. they might not be off a TT but they will be just as good won't they?

thanks

Edited 20 January, 2012 by leedavenport

[Delcac]

New mod.

[leedavenport]

New mod.

i don't understand. i am new to all this. it is one thing to just fit springs and shocks but when we are in to the realms of new arms, hubs and different geometry i am way out of my depth. i am only trying to learn. can you help?

Edited 20 January, 2012 by leedavenport

[leedavenport]

Do i take it that a full LCR front set up either will not fit straight on or is not the right way to go.

Please let me know as i do not want to buy parts which won't fit or which are not going to significantly improve the car's handling.

thanks in advance

[GavrsIrl]

Sorry to thread jack lee, but would people say this would still be of benefit (fitting the hubs, wishbones ect) if I only lowered the car by 20mm?

[Oet]

yes its worth it if you are looking to properly sort your car. Its worth doing the whole ttfront end setup so rack, subframe arb, wishbones hubs etc, this allows the car to then be tracked and setup as a tt, rather than a hubrid. The tt setup has adjustability and a better wishbone angle due to the hubs, so help correct the issues with the stock vrs setup.

If you dont push your car, and its just a weekend driver, and you are not bothered with the stock setup or think its good as it is then dont bother. If you are an enthusiast and drive 'briskly' and want the most out of your car then yes its essential.

[Oet]

yes the full setup lee, minus struts, is pretty much what you need, ideally you can drop your whole setup off to one side and bolt on the new lcr setup (so ideally you want, hubs,subframe and lower brace,arb,rack with tie rod ends,wishbones)

[GavrsIrl]

yes its worth it if you are looking to properly sort your car. Its worth doing the whole ttfront end setup so rack, subframe arb, wishbones hubs etc, this allows the car to then be tracked and setup as a tt, rather than a hubrid. The tt setup has adjustability and a better wishbone angle due to the hubs, so help correct the issues with the stock vrs setup.

If you dont push your car, and its just a weekend driver, and you are not bothered with the stock setup or think its good as it is then dont bother. If you are an enthusiast and drive 'briskly' and want the most out of your car then yes its essential.

I already have a R32 rack in it and a 21mm front arb, and I have the cast wishbones at home in the shed.

I got a set up a year ago, but decided I didn't want to lower (was still using the car for gigs) so sold the hubs (to Bowders actually!).

Now I want to lower her, so hence these q's.

Would all I need now is the hubs and new ball joints (TT/S3 one?) Anything else I need?