Vibrations in 2nd gear, DSG 7

[doby]

I will get my clutch changed in 2 weeks. Vibrations when going from 1st to 2nd or when rolling on 2nd and then speeding up.

[kzil]

So, back from a drive of 300 km. Hard shifts from 1st to 2nd and some jerky riding at low speeds. No shudder in 2nd (the new clutch seems to have taken care of that) but both medium and high frequency vibrations in all gears, more pronounced in 4th under acceleration. The workshop just rebalanced the right frontwheel (off by 25 g) but that only took care of the worst vibes at +110 kmh.

What is it with this car? I remember it as a very quiet, vibration free ride when I got it 30kkm ago, but now I just find it terrible to drive.

Has anyone experienced this vibration/"signing" in the steering wheel? Is it caused by the transmission?

[ibiza7]

Kzil,

I have the same symptoms of yours on seat Ibiza DSG7 (vibrating when on 2 gear and accelerating ) but not always, but every time I go to the dealer this symptoms is gone

5 times until now, any advice?

Edited 5 August, 2012 by ibiza7

[lokolas77]

Hello everyone. Im from chile and i have reading this thread a lot lately. I have an audi a3 dsg7 (s tronic) with 30.000 km and has started with this symptoms. Soon i'll take to it's 30.000 km service and will tell the dealer about this issue. To the people who started this thread, has the clutch pack replacement solved the problem? What is your car's km? Thanks for your answers.

[kzil]

Kzil,

I have the same symptoms of yours on seat Ibiza DSG7 (vibrating when on 2 gear and accelerating ) but not always, but every time I go to the dealer this symptoms is gone

5 times until now, any advice?

They should 1) trust you and 2) be able to look up that symptom on their VW database. It sounds like the clutch pack.

[kzil]

Hello everyone. Im from chile and i have reading this thread a lot lately. I have an audi a3 dsg7 (s tronic) with 30.000 km and has started with this symptoms. Soon i'll take to it's 30.000 km service and will tell the dealer about this issue. To the people who started this thread, has the clutch pack replacement solved the problem? What is your car's km? Thanks for your answers.

The second clutch pack (new design) helped. But I'm not satisfied with the DSG7. It still accelerates unevenly. My car is on 52kkm now.

[lokolas77]

The second clutch pack (new design) helped. But I'm not satisfied with the DSG7. It still accelerates unevenly. My car is on 52kkm now.

I've heard that after the clutch pack replacemente, something in the transmision must be re-programed. Also, i guy i know told me that his problems disapeard after mechatronics and clutch pack were replaced. Cheers!

[froudeg]

You almost certainly have a failng DMF (Dual Mass Flywheel), based on your symptoms and number of clutch packs!

 

The symptoms on DSG's are:

 

-Uneven idle, causing an intermittent shimmer/shake that can be felt through the seat at idle

-General vibration at low revs or idle.

-Rough shifting

-Delayed shifting

-Clunking on take off

-When they go really bad, you sometimes hear a rattling sound (pebbles in a can) from the gearbox when in neutral/park, that disappears when in drive. This happens more often on the 6 speed DSG DMF's rather than the 7 Speed ones.

-A more common failure sound on 7 Speed DSG DMF, is an intermittent crunch sound from the gearbox at idle, especially when cold. 

 

When they begin to fail there is usually too much rotational play in the DMF, this extra play can cause the clutch to slip or confuse the dsg on shifts.

The 2 halfs of the DMF can also begin to separate, causing all sorts of issues!

 

A failing/failed DMF can chew up clutch packs on a DSG - or the reverse can happen, a failing clutch pack can cause premature failure of a DMF.

 

You may not have all the symptoms but if you have most of them i would bet your DMF is fubar'ed.

 

Whenever the clutch pack is replaced they remove the entire gearbox, leaving the DMF on the crankshaft of the engine.They should fully check the DMF for rotational and lateral play and also check it moved smoothly and under tension from the internal springs.......unfortunately most dealer mechanics don't check them and just go ahead and do the clutch pack.

 

 

[kzil]

Hi,

 

Thank you for you reply.

 

Thankfully I don't recognize these symptoms, except for the (sometimes) uneven shifts. I have a rock steady idle and no vibrations or noise at all. Only thing is that 2 > 3 sometimes is not as smooth as I wish. And what's more important - the most recent clutchpack is doing fine after almost 30kkm - not one slip. If symptoms like these start to show, I'll be sure to mention the DMF. Thanks!

 

/K

[froudeg]

Hi,

 

Thank you for you reply.

 

Thankfully I don't recognize these symptoms, except for the (sometimes) uneven shifts. I have a rock steady idle and no vibrations or noise at all. Only thing is that 2 > 3 sometimes is not as smooth as I wish. And what's more important - the most recent clutchpack is doing fine after almost 30kkm - not one slip. If symptoms like these start to show, I'll be sure to mention the DMF. Thanks!

 

/K

 

2-3 shift sometimes rough - like a snatchy or clunky shift?

 

I had that on my DSG 7, especially from cold. Was completely solved with a new mechatronics unit a couple of months ago...at that time i had no noticeable judder of the clutch pack failure.

 

Now though i have started to develop the 2nd gear judder...especially when turning and accelerating. Its only occasional at the moment - but i know its the clutch pack starting go.

However i have some of the symptoms of the DMF also failing - and i'm sure its what has chewed up this 2nd clutch pack.

 

Oh the joys of these DSG 7 Speeds! - wish i had the 6 speed in this car. My previous 2.0TDI golf mk5 had a DSG 6 Speed, and even though the DMF went on that (to the point of falling to bits), the wet clutch on the 6 speeds just took the punishment and never once slipped, even at 90,000 miles!

[kzil]

2-3 shift sometimes rough - like a snatchy or clunky shift?

 

I had that on my DSG 7, especially from cold. Was completely solved with a new mechatronics unit a couple of months ago...at that time i had no noticeable judder of the clutch pack failure.

 

Now though i have started to develop the 2nd gear judder...especially when turning and accelerating. Its only occasional at the moment - but i know its the clutch pack starting go.

However i have some of the symptoms of the DMF also failing - and i'm sure its what has chewed up this 2nd clutch pack.

 

Mostly like a too quick shift. It's only once in a while - getting used to it. Skoda says that it's perfectly normal for a DSG... but hey - they would, wouldn't they?

 

Yup, sounds like the clutch pack. Sorry to hear that. How old is your Golf? Mileage? Old or new design of clutch pack? The old one eats itself in months, I've been told.

 

I did suspect the DMF at some point, as I experienced vibrations at high speed, and the Skoda workshop couldn't find the problem (they changed axels, balanced the wheels multiple times, and then gave up). A third party wheel expert then found badly fitted tires and 50g off balance in one of the wheel. Incredible that the brand workshop didn't notice that. It drives smoothly now.  

Edited 2 December, 2013 by kzil

[froudeg]

Mostly like a too quick shift. It's only once in a while - getting used to it. Skoda says that it's perfectly normal for a DSG... but hey - they would, wouldn't they?

 

Yup, sounds like the clutch pack. Sorry to hear that. How old is your Golf? Mileage? Old or new design of clutch pack? The old one eats itself in months, I've been told.

 

I did suspect the DMF at some point, as I experienced vibrations at high speed, and the Skoda workshop couldn't find the problem (they changed axels, balanced the wheels multiple times, and then gave up). A third party wheel expert then found badly fitted tires and 50g off balance in one of the wheel. Incredible that the brand workshop didn't notice that. It drives smoothly now.  

 

My golf is a 2010, 32000 miles. The clutch pack was replaced in 2012 at around 20,000 miles - it should have been the new design, but don't know for sure.

 

All my shifts are smooth since the new mechatronics - down shifts generally have a small jump, but that's to be expected and normal operation.

 

The clutch is definitely slipping now though, albeit mildly and infrequently at the moment. Only happens when warmed up, from cold i get no judder - again a characteristic of these clutch packs failing. Its also sometimes lurchy when in stop/start traffic - and if i let it crawl by releasing the brake you can feel and hear a bit of judder as it begins to move off.

 

I expect a new mechatronics or the latest dsg software update would sort out your remaining 2-3 shifting issue. The latest revision soft improves the shifting generally, also it changes the shift points so that it doesn't shift into 7 so early. It will also shift down a gear far more frequently if your going up an incline/hill......this feature is very noticeable when driving on the motorway and if the road starts to incline and you naturally put more gas on to maintain speed it will shift down from 7 into 6.

[myaussieskoda]

My golf is a 2010, 32000 miles. The clutch pack was replaced in 2012 at around 20,000 miles - it should have been the new design, but don't know for sure.

 

All my shifts are smooth since the new mechatronics - down shifts generally have a small jump, but that's to be expected and normal operation.

 

The clutch is definitely slipping now though, albeit mildly and infrequently at the moment. Only happens when warmed up, from cold i get no judder - again a characteristic of these clutch packs failing. Its also sometimes lurchy when in stop/start traffic - and if i let it crawl by releasing the brake you can feel and hear a bit of judder as it begins to move off.

 

I expect a new mechatronics or the latest dsg software update would sort out your remaining 2-3 shifting issue. The latest revision soft improves the shifting generally, also it changes the shift points so that it doesn't shift into 7 so early. It will also shift down a gear far more frequently if your going up an incline/hill......this feature is very noticeable when driving on the motorway and if the road starts to incline and you naturally put more gas on to maintain speed it will shift down from 7 into 6.

My vehicle had done a little over 14,000kms when my clutch packs were replaced and the software updated. I have never driven the vehicle hard and minimise stop/go traffic around town.

Upon replacement of the clutch packs the story I received was that clutch friction material dust builds up between the plates and develops into hard lumps on the friction plates. This is the cause of the shudder. Some (if not most) people get the shudder between 2-3 whilst others can get it between 3-4. The type of driving you do determines which clutch plates get the most wear and therefore the most dust build up. 

VW (or VAG suppliers of the DSG) have finally come up with an improved and slotted clutch pack set that minimises dust retention between the plates. So far so good with my replacement set, very smooth and a lot less jerky than original at low speeds.

Hope that helps!

[LS108]

Good that I was not reading all those horror stories before ordering mine (with DSG6). :(

I hope many of those problems are already sorted in year 2014 model.

[AndersNordh]

Good that I was not reading all those horror stories before ordering mine (with DSG6). :(

I hope many of those problems are already sorted in year 2014 model.

 

Hi, I hope so too since I am riding with the known to cause problems DSG7 ...

 

... but so far it is all nice and smooth. I do agree though, I can provoke the gearbox to do a quite abrupt change from 1st to 2nd and I also notice the down shift from 3rd to 2nd while decreasing the speed. On the other hand, I believe that's good since it means that the clutch is not used too much ...

 

And for those of you with DSG related issues or problems that has not done it yet, the DSG Survey is available at DSG-Survey.com.

 

Have a nice day, all of you!

[grahbarb]

My DSG 7 started juddering in second gear in August this year with 21000 miles on the clock.

 

A telephone call to my Dealer-Claybank Motors-Eccles resulted in the car being booked in for  2 days to have the clutch pack replaced.

 

This was done entirely on my description of the fault-there was no suggestion that the fault was likely to be anything else.

 

I was given a new Octavia as a Courtesy Car and the job was completed on time and the car, which was returned to me spotless, has since performed perfectly.

 

It's obvious that this is a wide spread problem and it is ridiculous that some Dealers won't accept the fact.

[dudleythecat]

This is really helpful as I've started to experience a violent intermittent shudder in 2nd when pulling from low speed in traffic on my 7 speed 1.6 with 26,000 miles. I'm also getting a speaking into 4th sometimes.

It's in for a service on Friday so what should I be saying as warranty ends this month?

[grahbarb]

Don't stand any nonsense - Insist the faults are rectified to your complete satisfaction under the terms of the Warranty.

 

The Dealers know what the fault is and should react accordingly.

 

Don't be fobbed off.

 

Graham

[kzil]

For crying out loud - here we go again. Vibrations are back - with a vengeance. And the dealer is all like "Strange, normally we never have any problems with that clutch". Except for the three in my car, of course.

 

This is getting absolutely ridiculous.

[djj777]

My Octavia 7 speed DSG began with the clutch judder and jerky changes about six months ago, gradually developing until it became quite pronounced and unpleasant in traffic jams, which I experience every day driving to work. I only have 6 months warranty left so I booked it into Alex Lawrie in Liverpool, who acknowledged the problem without question or need for a test drive.  Initially they tried a software update but phoned to say it hadn't worked. The car was immediately re-booked in for clutch pack replacement and further software update 2 working days later, again no questions asked, and I got it back yesterday.  The difference is incredible. No judder, smoother take off from rest, more instant response to the throttle and seamless gear changes.  I can only suggest to people with the same issues to try this and if you're near Liverpool, the Alex Lawrie guys seem to know what they are doing 

[DadWagon]

My 2010 Octavia 1.4 TSI had the 2nd gear shudder a few months ago. It was particularly pronounced pulling away up hill. Took it my local dealer noting that internationally recognised problems with DSG 7.  They refused to accept there was a problem recognised in the UK and reset the software (which they made me pay for). 

 

Yesterday I went in because the control knob for the electric windows had fallen off. They checked for outstanding recalls and found one for the DSG. Yes, that same DSG! I mentioned that I had been right and had wasted my money previous. I just got silence in response. A shame Liverpool is so far away from me!

Edited 30 May, 2014 by DadWagon

[kzil]

Hi,

 

My Superb 1.8T DSG has just been in for that recall. They're changing the DSG box oil from synthetic to mineral. The synthetic oil seemingly produces sulphur particle when it reaches a certain temperature, so when your box heats up, the oil starts to conduct electricity. This of course f*cks up the mechatronic unit, and finally VW has gotten around to executing a recall (should have been done years ago, if you ask me).

 

As I understand, this oil-problem has been the problem with the Chinese cars, inwhich the mechatronic just got too hot, short circuited and went offline, causing the the box to shut down in the middle of the freeway. It *should* have no impact on European cars driving under less extreme conditions.  ...they say. But...

 

- I have noticed a change. I have had little or no judder since the oil change. Smoother acceleration (not perfect, but without judder or clanks). Maybe they've updated the software as well, I don't know.

 

I'm still selling my Superb though. Do you know that feeling that a care just loses its charm after one too many problems? :-( It's sad. Skoda never again.

[DadWagon]

This is my first Skoda and I consistently (and still) want to love it. After BMWs and Fords its a great balance between value and quality. But unfortunately I am getting to the stage where I can no longer convince myself of its charms. Unfortunately, with 2 young kids, a house move underway and having just shelled out for 2 years warranty & assistance, changing cars is not an option.

 

I'd still argue its a great car and I would not now what to replace it with (apart from a Superb Estate/Combibut my wife thinks it's too big!). Other than the DSG worry, the problems have all been really silly and should have been picked up on pre-delivery inspection (front bumper had been painted badly before being sold to me by main dealer, key battery was dead the day I collected it, lumbar support wheel fell off the moment I touched it, driver's head rest decided not to move up and down anymore).

 

But for space, spec, general interior quality, technology, performance and efficiency, it is a great car. Honest Guv. 

Edited 30 May, 2014 by DadWagon

[DadWagon]

Great news from Skoda UK Customer Service. In response to my request, they have been on to the dealer and a cheque is on its way to cover the unnecessary DSG software reset I paid for prior to the recall. 

 

Well done Skoda UK!

[Supurbia]

If you've had a new dual mass flywheel and it's still doing it then I'd say your crankshaft is unbalanced or weakened, this will probably be a direct result of the failed DMF having put unbalanced load on the crank.