All PD170 TDI vRS owners - your help needed

[Nick P]

I would like as many PD170 owners as possible to post a couple of simple readings from VCDS (aka VAG-COM). If you don't have VCDS - maybe you could borrow one. Here is a list of forum members with VCDS: http://www.briskoda....em-vcds-owners/. If you're in Sheffield / Leeds I could do it for you.

I am trying to get a feel for what are normal ranges for cam torsion and injector stabilisation values on these engines. I am interested to see if this data helps pin point the root cause of the problems people have been having with these cars following the injector recall.

So - it's dead easy - a 2 minute job. I just want you to go to the engine module and measuring blocks and select groups 004 and 013 as below. We're interested in the torsion value and the idle stabilization values...

You can log them to a file or just do a screen shot / make a note of them. It doesn't have to be exact.

My results are:

Torsion: -2.63

Idle stabilization: 0.49, -0.26, -0.36, 0.13

Those idle stabilisations are about as good as they get now on my car, taken from when it's warm. When it's cold it can be trimming to over +1 on cylinder 1.

I would like this thread to stay completely on topic and to that end I may hide posts that distract from the stated goal.

[Nick P]

Also if any mechanic with access to the recall injector swap procedure or has firsthand experience of doing the swap would like to PM me I'd be very grateful.

[max69vk]

Nick, tried replying to your other thread (and PM) but for some reason I couldn't get the site to work the last couple of days. Anyhow...

I've adjusted my torsion to dead on 0.0 & tweaked the idle &RPM slightly (dropped by 20rpm) & its smooth as silk at idle! While I was there I tried various different degrees up to +/- 3 at which point it just wouldnt fire, at -2.4 (near where yours is) is was a bit of a pain to start & was fairly rough, the adjustment between 0 & +/-3 degrees was probably only 5mm from either extreme, which is tiny! I'll take some more screenshots for you tonight showing the same details as above, except I'll substitute group 010 for group 003 which will show the EGR values ( which I think could be more relevant).

[Nick P]

Brilliant Max. Thanks for the update. Seems like is still some hope then for us. Did you adjust only the exhaust camshaft?

[max69vk]

I adjusted the intake/injection cam (this is the one that VCDS reads) at the front of the engine, & then adjusted the exhaust (rear cam) to suit. I dont think adjusting the rear cam really made that much difference (I fired it up without adjusting the rear) but as they are meant to be identical in position I moved it to suit.

[Nick P]

k - seems there is some misinformation floating around forums surrounding making these adjustments on DOHC engines.

[max69vk]

k - seems there is some misinformation floating around forums surrounding making these adjustments on DOHC engines.

Sounds a bit worrying. Front cam defo affects intake/inj timing (torsion on VCDS), this was what I initially adjusted to get 0.0 , I only adjusted the rear to suit as the position is meant to be identical (part of what the Cam-belt locking kit is meant to do).

[Nick P]

What you did sounds right to me - I've seen people saying the front cam is the exhaust and that's the only one you need to adjust! :think:

[max69vk]

Even thinking about it 'position wise' the inlet manifold is at the front of the engine & the exhaust is at the rear, would be a bit weird to have the cams operating valves at the other side of the head. :p

Edited 6 June, 2012 by max69vk

[hatchy]

I'm fairly close in distance to 39,40 and 41 on the 'location list', if any of them are still active members I can take mine and get it read. Wouldn't be any good me having this Vagcom thingymajig I wouldn't have a clue how to plug it in,let alone use it . The injector recall was done on mine back in December at 100,000 (before I bought it). I've had it a month (now on 108,000) and the idle seems spot on.

[max69vk]

Sorry about this Nick, haven't managed to get the reading yet as the DPF warning has come on (twice) in the last 20 miles so it's thrown everything out (idle is still smooth though)! I'll be taking it for a damn good spanking later so hopefully I'll get you the info then

[Nick P]

I wonder if they have any cause to take the G40 sensor off when they're swapping the injectors / loom. I'm wondering if that gets taken off, if it might be getting refitted in sightly the wrong position whilst still being close enough to read the sender. I think it only attaches with a single bolt so maybe it can be bolted down at different angles?

EDIT - scratch that. I can't see why they'd want to remove it and I can't see it working at all with it moved significantly.

[max69vk]

That's exactly my point. Mine were done by the head vw/Audi mechanic so was happy out.

He was 1 of 2 that specifically done recalls on these injectors and is well know for his excellent workmanship.

Guess you were the lucky one then, my 'Master-tech' had done several of these swaps, this was the same guy who handed me my keys back 4 times & told me there was nothing wrong... The same guy who didn't show his face when I proved he'd ballsed the job & damaged the cylinder head. 'Master-tech' means nothing more than they've been there longer than anyone else in my experience, it doesn't mean they're any better.

[max69vk]

Just for you Nick, hopefully it covers everything you need to see. Ignore the torsion value as it slipped a bit, I realised afterwards I'd left the heater on full whack!...

[TommyC]

Hi Nick,

I'm in Buxton if you'd like another car to measure and add to you stats......

Cheers )

[Alexei Egg]

For what its worth, I've just checked these on my A4 with a BRD engine that's had injectors and loom changed about a year ago.

Torsion (Group 4) 2.63 degrees (no negative value shown so assumed positive)

Idle stab (Group 13 for this car) 1) -0.09 2) +0.30 3) -0.16 4) -0.04

Might be of no use whatsoever, but I wanted a play with my new VCDS. Any feedback appreciated as its all Greek to me (I'm supporting Czech Republic today anyway).

[Kilner]

any news on this ?

my tdi 170 is probably one of the worst effected wen starting from cold if i dont hold my throtle pedle down im suret he negine would eventually pull itself off its engine mounts

as soon as its got semi warm 20 seconds its fine

btw i hav done idle logs of my engine be for and after the injector change and the difrence in injection quantity is about the same but i noticed one of them at start up is now at below -60 untill ist warmed then raises to around -30 on the old injectors it neva went below -40 and the engine ran fine from cold

[Kilner]

current idle logs warm = -0.06 -0.45 0.08 0.43 and torsion value 1.49

idle logs pre injectors warm = -0.11 -0.12 0.32 -0.08 torsion value -0.74

[Nick P]

Pretty healthy values.

EDIT - mis-read the post. Not good values post injectors.

[Wardy]

Just to say, happy to help anyone in the Manchester/Cheshire area obtain these values from their car

Hope you get this nailed Nick.

[Kilner]

anything new on this ?

[sug7]

Sorry to bring this up guys, I have a PD170 running lumpy on idle.

Torsion Value = between 4.85 and 5.25 (Measured from VCDS, Group 4)

A sample of of Injection Quantity (VCDS, Group 13)

 

 

I would apreciate it if someone could take a look over these figures and hopefully point me in the right direction.

[sug7]

Had a search of the web, I'm sure my torsion value shouldn't be that high?

[clarkey1269]

is it worth resetting the values if its out?

[sug7]

To be honest I'm not sure what needs doing?