Hi everyone. I've got a major problem with my Octavia VRS and I'd be grateful for any advice anyone can offer.

It's a saga but the key facts are as follows. I picked up my brand new Octavia VRS in March this year. In mid June (car had done roughly 2000 miles by now) on my 7 mile morning commute to work whilst at traffic lights the idle suddenly became very lumpy and the engine management light started to illuminate periodically. It felt like the engine wanted to stall. I managed to phone a nearby Skoda dealer (not the supplying dealer) who advised me to bring it in for a diagnostic check. Their diagnosis on the day was that it wasn't a simple fault and it may take a little time to sort out. They found that when they revved the engine it ran smoothly but something was wrong at idle. About a week later I had a call from the service department to say that the timing had "jumped" and this was proving difficult to deal with. They also said they had found photographs of my car on the internet at Santa Pod Raceway, and they were querying whether the problem had occurred there. I said I had been to Santa Pod on one of their "run what ya brung"and the car had been fine there and on the 100+ mile journey home afterwards and on the following three days. It was four days after that the fault had occurred, as described. The service manager later said that he had spoken to Skoda and there shouldn't be a problem as they would have to prove that I had caused the damage.

I won't bore everyone with all the details of what happened next, but basically I then waited 9 weeks to be told that removal of the cylinder head and a leak test had shown damage to valves to two cylinders. This would require an engine replacement. There was then an exchange between the dealer and Skoda's technical department. According to the dealer they have found no evidence of a manufacturing defect, specifically nothing wrong with the tensioner, guides or chain. The technical dept asked them if the timing jump could have been caused by repeated hard acceleration or over-revving. The dealer responded that being a dsg it could not be over-revved, but repeated hard acceleration could have caused the timing jump.

Skoda customer services have told me that as there is no sign of a manufacturing defect, combined with the photographs of my car at Santa Pod which they regard as track racing, they will not cover the engine replacement under the warranty or pay any contribution. The likely cost is apparently around £5k plus labour!

This has left me stunned. I've raised the issue of the Sales of Gods Act which states that where a fault arises in the first 6 months it should be assumed to have existed from new and replacement or repair provided free of charge, but so far this has been ignored and my car remains at the dealer with the engine in bits, and Skoda refusing to act.

I consider the way I have been treated to be very unfair. I see no link between going to Santa Pod and the fault. Skoda say they have no evidence to prove I have caused the damage but nevertheless the warranty will not apply as the dealer has said there is no evidence of a manufacturing defect. With hindsight I would not have gone to Santa Pod, but I naively did not see a problem at the time - I did not regard it as track racing or motorsport. I merely wanted to try out the acceleration the car could offer in safe conditions.

I'm now absolutely stuck. Can anyone suggest what I should do next? Grateful for any advice, thanks!

They may have of got you over a barrel. Track racing is a big exclusion and regardless of how sympathetically driven it has been 'raced'. Fight it but don't hope for miracles.

I'm assuming that there is more to this story?

Why would a dealer be searching on the internet for pictures of their customers cars at Santa Pod?

Is there any other evidence on or in the car that would suggest it has been set-up or moddified for racing? I can't think of any other reason that they would have spent time looking for pictures on the internet in the slim hope of seeing your particular car!

From Skoda's website on their UK warranty:

Damage including but not limited to:

• Damage caused by your failure to take all reasonable steps to prevent mechanical damage from occurring.
  
• Damage or defects caused by not having the vehicle serviced in accordance with the manufacturer’s guidelines.
  
• Damage or defects caused by improper use of the vehicle, neglect or use of the vehicle for motor sports activities.
  
• Damage caused by an accident.
  
• Damage to paintwork or chrome caused by external influences, such as climatic, chemical or industrial pollution.
  
• Damage resulting from the use of non-original replacement parts. Routine maintenance and servicing is not covered by the warranty. Incidental or consequential costs such as hotel charges, car hire, loss of personal effects or income are not recoverable under the terms of the warranty.
  

http://www.skoda.co.uk/GBR/Documents/Warranty%20Booklet_single.pdf

Edited 25 August, 201213 yr by silver1011

Hi

Thanks for the replies.

They looked on the internet because I had left a business card for the photography company who work at Santa Pod by the handbrake. They found pictures on that company's website. The car hasn't been modified in any way. They asked me if it had been chipped, which it hasn't. Thanks for the warranty extract, I've become quite familiar with that over the past few weeks, hence me saying with hindsight I wouldn't have gone to Santa Pod, even though anything I did there could be replicated on the road and I genuinely didn't regard it as motor sport. Plus they are unable to tell me what component I've allegedly damaged which has led to the timing problem, and it occurred when the engine was idling.

I understood that the warranty was in addition to my rights under the Sale of Goods act regarding faults in the first 6 months.

Any other comments/suggestions?

Thanks!

My argument would be that if they suspect that the failure is as a result of your driving (on the road or on a track) then they need to prove it.

Ask them to show you the component that they suspect lead to the failure and then get some independent advice on if it is has failed as a result of a manufacturing defect.

I think it is fair to say that Skoda UK, the dealer, me, you and most people reading this thread will agree that it is highly unlikely that the hard and fast starts you did at Santa Pod are any different to a hard and fast start anyone else would do away from the traffic lights on a public road.

Either you or Skoda has a big bill looming on the horizon and both sides will be looking for ways to aportion that cost to the other party.

Fight your corner, don't let them bully you into backing down, research your rights under the SOG and speak to your local CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau).

Oh, and get the photo's removed from the website in case the dealer hasn't saved them!

Edited 25 August, 201213 yr by silver1011

Honestly, it clearly states motorsport activities, there the first clue, never mind the fact most companies dont want to pay up and help out.

I hope you get what you want but i also wouldnt hold my breath

I've seen one of these cases go through the court and the customer lost.

To cut a long story short, the court decided that 'Damage or defects caused by improper use of the vehicle, neglect or use of the vehicle for motor sports activities', was a reasonable exclusion to the warranty.

The court also concluded that SOGA was not unlimited and that the same exclusion could reasonably be applied.

You also have to remember that most magistrates will consider a RWYB day as completely alien.

It is also likely that you have invalidated the T's & C's of your motor insurance. This may be raised to show that Skoda aren't the only company that has such an exclusion and that you have a reckless disregard for such exclusions.

Get the dealer to send you a written report stating the cause of failure and post the result here.

If the belt is properly tensioned it shouldnt jump any teeth, the engine should just bounce on the rev limiter no matter how hard its reved. But if its been remapped it may be a different story...

Thanks all for the further comments.

So once the dealer/Skoda know that a car has been at Santa Pod, they can use that to exempt themselves from any warranty liability in relation to any subsequent fault?

If that is the case I wonder if those people on Briskoda attending Santa Pod events and track days are aware of the potential implications?

07 vRS Taxi, just seen your post, this is what I fundamentally don't understand. After 10 weeks I don't actually know how the timing jumped! Only that they've checked the chain, tensioner and guides and found no manufacturing defect. Surely it is possible that something else has failed due to an underlying weakness or fault?

And just to clarify, the dealer has said the engine can't be over-revved as it's a dsg but it is possible that repeated hard take off caused it?

But caused it 4 days and approximately 140 miles later?

I think it is fair to say that Skoda UK, the dealer, me, you and most people reading this thread will agree that it is highly unlikely that the hard and fast starts you did at Santa Pod are any different to a hard and fast start anyone else would do away from the traffic lights on a public road.

I disagree. Timed runs on a drag strip are basically driving the car as hard as possible from a standing start, which *can* cause mechanical failure. Even in a sporty car, that isn't how most people will drive on the road.

It's not out of the question that driving like this has escalated a minor fault that was already present, even if it took a few days to show up.

It's very unlikely that Skoda will back down, so that would mean a trip to the small claims court where you'd have to persuade them that taking it down the drag strip had nothing to do with it.

How many miles covered or time after the Santa Pod event are largely irrelevant, use for Motorsport activity is a specific exclusion and your warranty would have been void from that point on.

At least one previous member on here had their warranty declared void on a vRS after pictures of it were spotted online.

Thanks all for the further comments.

So once the dealer/Skoda know that a car has been at Santa Pod, they can use that to exempt themselves from any warranty liability in relation to any subsequent fault?

If that is the case I wonder if those people on Briskoda attending Santa Pod events and track days are aware of the potential implications?

It will be the same as modifications. They can refuse a claim that appears to be related, but not all claims. Drive train faults would be fair game but not a problem with the stereo for example.

...But caused it 4 days and approximately 140 miles later?...

We don't know the cause...

If a component is damaged it can sometimes take hundreds of miles before that component sees off a bearing or something else that causes a catastrophic failure.

The dealer's view will be...

After the damage was done by racing the car, it took less than 150 miles to destroy the engine.

What is vital now, is that you get a written report stating the cause of failure.

It will be the same as modifications. They can refuse a claim that appears to be related, but not all claims. Drive train faults would be fair game but not a problem with the stereo for example.

That's what I was assuming. I thought it would be unreasonable for Skoda to argue that the warranty will no longer cover any faults on the basis of some still photos of the car at Santa Pod.

I'm interested in your point about driving as hard as possible from a standing start causing mechanical failure. That suggests that even if there was no Santa Pod issue, having supposedly found no evidence of a manufacturing defect, Skoda could still have argued the warranty didn't apply. Why advertise a 0-60 time in the brochure if the expectation is that should an owner try to replicate it in any circumstances, they could end up being charged for a new engine if something breaks!

What is vital now, is that you get a written report stating the cause of failure.

Will do.

Thanks again for all the responses.

Edited 25 August, 201213 yr by kwabo

I disagree. Timed runs on a drag strip are basically driving the car as hard as possible from a standing start, which *can* cause mechanical failure.

The only difference in terms of the mechanical strain on the engine between Santa Pod and a motorway slip road is the type of tarmac.

The only difference in terms of the mechanical strain on the engine between Santa Pod and a motorway slip road is the type of tarmac.

Not really. When pulling onto the motorway do you come to a complete halt, rev the engine to four or five thousand revs then dump the clutch and redline it in every gear?

Most peoples brisk driving won't be that hard on the car, and you don't have to convince a bunch of enthusiasts on an owners forum, but a court which expects people to drive within the law.

Edited 25 August, 201213 yr by Dr Zoidberg

The only difference in terms of the mechanical strain on the engine between Santa Pod and a motorway slip road is the type of tarmac.

...and that difference is bad news for OP. You can't put that kind of stress on the engine when on a public road. The TC would kick in or you would spin the tyres. The launch area at Santa Pod has a much higher coefficient of friction.

Not really. When pulling onto the motorway do you come to a complete halt, rev the engine to four or five thousand revs then dump the clutch and redline it in every gear?

It's a dsg, and funnily enough I didn't even properly floor it, I was really slow over the quarter mile! And clearly the 0-60 time in the brochure should have a health warning alongside it.

It looks like I may be about to learn an expensive lesson. It's a shame that a really enjoyable few hours at Santa Pod, virtually all of which was spent watching other cars or eating my lunch, has ended up this way. I certainly won't be going to Santa Pod again, apart from Mini in the Park each year which is excellent.

Another timing chain issue, I'm beginning to think I'm lucky having a belt.

Not really. When pulling onto the motorway do you come to a complete halt, rev the engine to four or five thousand revs then dump the clutch and redline it in every gear?

The OP's car is an automatic.

Surely there must be a privacy issue with a dealer looking at a business card in YOUR car?