I got a phone call from the missus as soon as she got to work yesterday, and she was in a state of extreme distress. There is a very large roundabout near her work in a 30 MPH zone, and she checked for traffic before pulling out (I will say that she is a very careful driver), she had just started moving forward (5MPH to 10MPH at a guess), when a blue car shot across the front of her, clipping her in the process, she stopped. The other car then proceeded to hit a steel barrier 25 yards away, launched itself into the air, turned over, hit another barrier on the other side of the road, before coming to a rest on its roof, pointing towards where it had come from. Both steel barriers have been severely damaged, and the other car is a write off (by the looks of it). Other cars stopped and gave assistance, and the other driver is OK. My wife restarted the car, and drove it out of harms way, and parked up at work (5 minutes away). I then went and picked her up and we went to the police station.

One of the PCs who was at the scene then interviewed her, and was surprised that another car was involved, because of the lack of paint on the other car. I then said that the Octy is hardly damaged - bumper out of line, bonnet slightly deformed, but both headlights fully intact and working. The strange thing is, that there are no paint marks on our car either, but the bumper is partially destroyed and there is evidence of black rubber all over the front of our car - tyre rubber?

Bearing in mind that this was a 30 limit, how on earth has the other driver lost it like this, how has he done so much damage to his car, and how have his wheels left their mark all over the front of our car.

The PC said that he suspects but cannot prove, that the other motorist was speeding, as there were no skid marks - well he obviously did not brake.

Insurance companies have been informed, and the Octy went in for an estimate today, but I am not happy with this, because it is the first prand the missus has had.

Andy

Just be thankful that your Mrs was not 1 second earlier to work otherwise it could have been a lot worse!

I very nearly had a similar accident last night.

30mph, mini roundabout. Approach, stop, look, nothing coming. Hard to see with stupid pedestrian barriers all around, but can see clearly enough down the road when someone is approaching at 30. While I'm half way across, someone comes flying out, then goes across the wrong side of the roundabout.

I slam on the brakes to avoid hitting him, he just carries on regardless.

Lack of skid marks does not necessarily mean no braking though. Either not braking enough to cause the wheels to lock - or ABS kicking in.

She's not hurt = result. Car not too bad = result. It wasn't you = +result.

Yes of course he was speeding condemn condemn condemn!!!! If you don't, he will be!

It should be possible to work out the rough speed from the distance traveled after impact.

You probably find there was a rub strip.

To lose the car like that after a small impact and destroy the barriers/flip, there is no way on earth the other car was doing 30.

What was it that collided/was hit by your octy?

As above, your misses is very lucky, a second or two difference and that would have been coming right into the drivers door :(

So your missus was involved in a collision which, on the face of it, was her fault, saw the car flip over and she drove off, parking at work 5 minutes away? She couldn't just pull to the side of the road and check she hadn't hurt anyone?

So your missus was involved in a collision which, on the face of it, was her fault, saw the car flip over and she drove off, parking at work 5 minutes away?

Not her fault if the guy was speeding.....sounds like he was doing over 40mph. The roundabout will only be designed with visibility splays for traffic doing 30mph......if anybody approaches much faster than the speed limit then all bets are off.

She couldn't just pull to the side of the road and check she hadn't hurt anyone?

Read the post again.

OP wife was interviewed at the scene would suggest she waited until the police arrived.

They can prove its speed, it's not hard. Even on them police programmes they say they can without the need for skid marks.

Sounds like they cannot be a*sed :-P

Good news your wife wasn't hurt!

Yes the other car was speeding but your wife pulling out and hit the other driver side when he had the right of way makes it your wifes fault, speeding or not speeding

Did your wife get any details of any other road users as they should be able to verify her story and the other driver was speeding/driving dangerously

So your missus was involved in a collision which, on the face of it, was her fault, saw the car flip over and she drove off, parking at work 5 minutes away? She couldn't just pull to the side of the road and check she hadn't hurt anyone?

I don't think that's what was meant.

If that's what happened, then I'd totally agree with you, but it sounds like she drove on to work 5 minutes away, after the police or somebody had been there and then stopped and called home.

Yes the other car was speeding but your wife pulling out and hit the other driver side when he had the right of way makes it your wifes fault, speeding or not speeding

Kind of, although if a car is doing 70 on a 30 and there was no way on earth you'd have seen them until they were on you, then you slammed on the anchors and stopped, I'm sure it could be argued.

At the very least you could argue that their speed was a contributing factor as if they were near or at the limit not only might you have seen them, but also any resulting damage would have been quite minor.

Edited 7 September, 201213 yr by cheezemonkhai

Not her fault if the guy was speeding.....sounds like he was doing over 40mph. The roundabout will only be designed with visibility splays for traffic doing 30mph......if anybody approaches much faster than the speed limit then all bets are off.

Read the post again.

Irrespective if the guy was speeding (which hasn't been proven) she has to give way. What if it had been an ambulance/police/fire vehicle?. The damage described on the face of it can be caused at less than 30mph (i'm talking from 10 years experience as a Forensic Collision Investigator).

On re reading the post, it reads that she stopped post collision, other cars stopped and gave assistance to the other driver and she started the car and drove off. The OP said "My wife restarted the car, and drove it out of harms way, and parked up at work (5 minutes away)".

It was only at the police station she was spoken to by police which, to me, sounds like she had left the scene prior to police arrival.

Of course, I may have misunderstood to OP and if so I apologise, as may have you though...

To lose the car like that after a small impact and destroy the barriers/flip, there is no way on earth the other car was doing 30.

Not true. Barriers are designed to deform in a collision and reduce the rate of change of momentum of what hit it in the first place thus reducing injury.

What sometimes happens is that as the base is anchored the top bends over and forms a ramp. This has the effect of launching the vehicle over onto its roof.

The coefficient of friction of the roof sliding along the road is a lot lower than that of the tyres so the car ends up a lot further down the road giving the layman the impression of a higher speed.

I have seen roll-overs at speeds as low as 20mph. The design of motorway barriers has changed drastically over the years due to this phenomenon.

What if it had been an ambulance/police/fire vehicle?.

Given they are trained to drive to conditions (so a roundabout in a 30mph zone, I'd have expected them to be driving at a speed they would have been able to stop and/or take avoiding action...

It is clear that speed was a major factor in this.

OP, glad your missus is ok and and as for the car, its metal

Irrespective if the guy was speeding (which hasn't been proven) she has to give way. What if it had been an ambulance/police/fire vehicle?. The damage described on the face of it can be caused at less than 30mph (i'm talking from 10 years experience as a Forensic Collision Investigator).

Yes, but as said emergency vehicles are driven by trained drivers, with sirens and blue lights.

Which ever way you cut it, the guy must have been driving like a tool at the very least. If you were driving normally on a roundabout in a 30mph zone (probably travelling under 30 mph), and you were clipped from the side, you'd surely manage to get onto the brakes before hitting the barrier.....thus scrubbing enough speed to avoid getting launched into the air and flipping upside down?

Of course, I may have misunderstood to OP and if so I apologise, as may have you though...

Maybe, but it sounds like the situation was under control when she left.

Yes, but as said emergency vehicles are driven by trained drivers, with sirens and blue lights.

Which ever way you cut it, the guy must have been driving like a tool at the very least. If you were driving normally on a roundabout in a 30mph zone (probably travelling under 30 mph), and you were clipped from the side, you'd surely manage to get onto the brakes before hitting the barrier.....thus scrubbing enough speed to avoid getting launched into the air and flipping upside down?

Maybe, but it sounds like the situation was under control when she left.

I have just got back in after a very busy day, so will not answer all the questions.

My wife was in shock immediately after the accident, and could not even get her phone out of her handbag to make a 999 call. She then saw a car which had stopped on the opposite lane of one of the exit roads (the nearside lane was blocked by the upended car), and the driver had got out and was on his mobile. She was partially out in the roundabout, and cars were now passing her and beeping. There was nowhere to park up at the side of the road, and even if she had stopped, then it would have been half a mile away, and she would have had to walk back to the scene, and cross three busy roads (without pedestrian crossings) on foot. When she got to work, she immediately told her boss what had happened, and then contacted me. I then picked her up and drove her to the police station - 45 minutes after the crash happened. She was still shaking like a leaf a few hours after the accident.

As you have correctly said, the situation was under control, and there was never any intention to "do a runner"

As to the car in question, I will not give exact details, but it is a relatively new "very hot hatch" capable of 6 second 0 - 60 and a 155 MPH top speed. There was also no rubber/black plastic trim on the car - every bit was colour coded (very bright paint), and the guy who took the details for the repair estimate on our car, reckons that the other car must have been off the ground when it hit our car.

I would have thought, that an engineer would be able to tell what the impact speed of the other car hitting the barriers was.

The point about emergency vehicles trravelling at over the speed limit is ridiculous, because they have lights and sirens.

Ah, now gentlemen, this is MY specialist subject.

AHEM!!

As a fire appliance driver, we don't just hoon around at top speed, we do have to drive sensibly because you never have the luxury of knowing what's round the corner. Blue lights are usually always on on a shout, but I was taught that if there's any junction coming up (whether visible or shown by signs), you hit the sirens early to alert anyone potentially coming out ( I was also taught not to necessarily have them on at all times so there's an audible difference when you do) and at least take your foot off the accelerator enough to be able to react quicker if something does go pete tong and there's an idiot wanting to play chicken. Fire engines also have 13+ tons of water sloshing around in the boot so they're not that quick. Probable average top speeds would be in the 70-80 mph range and you don't often get the chance to hit that on 30 roads. Always in the back of my mind how long it takes to brake/stop due to the weight.

Police cars and first responder paramedics are the most likely to be able to achieve faster speeds and better braking when they're in suped up cars, but if they're trained the same as I was, they should have the sirens on early too. Road familiarity normally helps to this too.

Can't justify for normal tw@ts driving at speed though. I'd suggest that if they were driving at great speed, it's a 50/50 thing, as they're commiting the first offence by speeding but unfortunately your wife pulling out over the line probably makes her liable too unless it's proven that the speed the flipped guy was at was in excess of something that your wife could have possible seen, but that'd be tricky to prove unless he was REALLY going for it and the view is obscured. Got at least one junction near me where you literally can't see a thing from the right due to a close brick wall and always have that running through my head when I creep out. :peek:

I'm fairly sure that if speed is involved blame will pretty much be on the person speeding.

Yes you need to give way to the right but you also must slow your vehicle to a safe speed to enter the roundabout.

It's all very well making comments but none of us where there.

Main thing is your wife is unharmed as for the blame game leave that to the insurance companies.

It's all very well making comments but none of us where there.

To be fair it is a public forum and there were no specific questions asked in the OP.

Based on the limited information provided it can be expected that there is likely to be a difference of opinion.

I too wondered if she has left the scene of an accident, but then few of us really know how they will react after being involved in a serious accident.

I don't think anyone will disagree that the well being of the OP wife is of the highest importance.

I don't think anyone will disagree that the well being of the OP wife is of the highest importance.

And the driver of the other car...

Fair comment on the barriers and how they could cause a flip at lower speeds.

It does sound as if the other driver may not have been fully in control, but i wasn't ther.

Main thing is that hopefully nobody was hurt.

If the police say there was no skidmarks, they will not investigate as it is not worth their time, you will be very lucky to be 50:50 as he has the right of way and she hit him on the side of car

Many years ago we was in a XR2 and clip a high kerb and 10-20mph and the car was on its roof.

Edited 7 September, 201213 yr by tony2311

And the driver of the other car...

He can go to hell for driving like a ****

He can go to hell for driving like a ****

allegedly.

But I get the sentiment if he was.

Yes, cars can flip without too much help. Been to a few where you wonder how they walked out in one piece!

allegedly.

But I get the sentiment if he was.

Yes, cars can flip without too much help. Been to a few where you wonder how they walked out in one piece!

Flipping over is one thing but to travel 25 yards, hit a barrier (which will absorb some of the speed) flip over, travel across the road to the other side with enough force to flatten a barrier there suggests to me an entry speed to the roundabout of 50 or 60, possibly les if you assume he never touched the break, but come on the first thing you would do is stand on the break so across the roundabout and 25 yards down the road I'd have expected to scrub 50% of the original speed by this point. 25 yards is enough to stop a car from 30mph.

As to the car in question, I will not give exact details, but it is a relatively new "very hot hatch" capable of 6 second 0 - 60 and a 155 MPH top speed. There was also no rubber/black plastic trim on the car - every bit was colour coded (very bright paint), and the guy who took the details for the repair estimate on our car, reckons that the other car must have been off the ground when it hit our car.

It sounds like a hot hatch, and he may well have been driving fast, but flying?

Talking as a layman, if he'd been travelling at a sensible speed, and merely clipped your car, there's no way he should have lost control as he did

Glad SWMBO was OK apart from the shakes